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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I need some quick advice for a friend who is leaving her alcoholic husband please

32 replies

princesspeahead · 07/11/2005 20:41

She has just called. She is the 2nd wife of a very old friend of my DH, who has been an alcoholic for 20 years or more. She has 2 young children with him. She has finally had enough. He is verbally abusive but she says not physically (although she has also said that he has "pushed her around" a bit which sounds physically abusive to me). He never sees the children because he either works or is in the pub, returning v late.
They live in a jointly owned flat above the premises that his business is in (post office and shop). She has a separate career and is working part time. Her parents are nearby and will give her emotional and limited financial support.
She is worried that when she tells him it is over he will bust up the flat.
She has discussed splitting up with him - he told her that he would keep the flat and the children. For some unknown reason she believed him!

So my questions - obviously there is no question that the children will stay with her. But she just wants him out of the flat. How can she do this? I know that legally she can't just change the locks, but if she does, what comeback does he have on a practical level? Or should we be persuading him to take a week off work, go stay with his sister (in another town) so that she and he can think about things, so getting her some breathing time to sort herself out? If she is scared of him, as it seems she is, could she get an injunction against him? Would she have to show a history of abuse to do so?

Any advice very welcome - we've promised to call her back with our thoughts.

Horrible situation.

OP posts:
princesspeahead · 07/11/2005 20:46

bump

OP posts:
helsi · 07/11/2005 20:48

ask her to contact al-anon it is a support group for relatives/friends of alcoholoics.

princesspeahead · 07/11/2005 20:52

she just wants out and needs practical advice on how to achieve this.
I think his alcoholism is his problem - we have all tried to talk to him over the years and he refuses to admit there is an issue or deal with it. Which is strange considering his father was an abusive alcoholic who he and his mother fled Ireland to escape when he was 13.

She doesn't love him anymore, she doesn't want any more to do with him.

OP posts:
princesspeahead · 07/11/2005 20:55

please can anyone help? I've promised to call her, she is desperate and I'm feeling a bit useless....

OP posts:
aloha · 07/11/2005 20:58

Hi PPH. She can call the domestic violence unit at her local police station at any time for advice re an injunction. They will talk to her. And I also recommmend that she get some legal advice, which can be free if she has no money - most solicitors offer a free consultation. She should get as much information as possible together first - ie how much they each earn, who owns what and in what proportions etc. The standard advice is that she shouldn't move out as he will then sit in the house like a toad, and in his state probably make it look unsaleable very quickly thus ruining her chances of getting a good price. Would the property even be saleable if above the post office or would the whole business have to be sold, thus rendering her husband unemployed... it sounds really complicated PPH, and I honestly think she should get herself to a family solicitor pronto. Of course he won't keep anything but I imagine you have already enlightened her on that point. I think asking him to take a break is a good one.

aloha · 07/11/2005 20:58

Do you have any friends who are family law solicitors who could help?

aloha · 07/11/2005 20:59

If she locked him out and he was threatening violence to get back in, no policeman would allow him back in btw.

princesspeahead · 07/11/2005 21:02

no I don't know any family law solicitors, nothing so useful! she is in devon so needs local advice I think.

good point about if she locked him out and he was threatening etc...

I'm sure the property is pretty difficult to sell anyway, it would have to be the sale of a business as you say. That is why I think it is crucial for her to stay, because I don't think they will be able to sell and buy sep properties (or even a smaller cheaper one for her) and to rent a flat for her plus two kids will be much more expensive than a flat for him.

thanks aloha, that's clarified my thinking a bit.
Poor woman. I'm amazed she has lasted so long in this one actually. It was one of those weddings where you thought "what is she DOING?!!

OP posts:
soapbox · 07/11/2005 21:05

PPH - I really think the best thing you could do for your friend is to make an appointment with a family law solicitor and take her along.

I think it is important that she has someone with her who can take in all the information and discuss the pratical application of it with her afterwards. If she goes on her own then there is a risk that she will be so overwhelmed with all the information that she will forget half of it - and probably the more useful half at that

If a solicitor is too expensive then perhaps you could make an appointment with your local CAB.

If the relationship is definately over, then there seems little point in relate or other mediation type services - she may as well just cut straight to the deal!

hotmama1 · 07/11/2005 21:06

She does need to get some 'proper' advice. Is there some sort of 'woman's organisation' she could ring to get advice? I'm sure some other mners will have more helpful advice.

FWIW - my dad was an alcoholic (and a deputy head at a secondary school) my mum left when I was 4 - it was the best thing she did - my dad wasn't a bad person just an alcoholic.

Your bf is doing the best for her children - IMHO.

princesspeahead · 07/11/2005 21:07

yes I think you are right. I need to find a competant family law solicitor in her town.
She is worried about even doing that in case her husband finds out, but she should be able to go in a morning when he is working.

He isn't a bad person, but he is deeply troubled, self destructive, and has turned his destructive streak on her.
It is so predictable and obvious from the outside and therefore painful to watch.

OP posts:
aloha · 07/11/2005 21:09

Well, right now she can prepare a file for the solicitor, with how much the property/business is worth, how they own it (jointly or whatever) how much they each earn and what other assets they own. She can phone estate agents and get them to value the business if he is out. Also call the police for advice and also find a family law solicitor. In the meantime, suggesting that he takes a break might give her some time to consider what to do next. is she ok about staying until she knows her options better, or are you going to have to offer her a short break at PPH towers?

aloha · 07/11/2005 21:10

If you will help her find a solictor, I'm sure she will be eternally grateful to you. The family law association will have lists of solicitors. They have a website. Let me see...

aloha · 07/11/2005 21:11

www.sfla.org.uk

soapbox · 07/11/2005 21:14

Actually, as unbearable as it might be, finding him somewhere else to stay would be of enormous help to her staying in the home!

princesspeahead · 07/11/2005 21:16

thanks aloha, you are a star.
I don't think she has a problem with staying - I think the problem is getting him out. And she is working etc.

We may offer HIM a short break at PPH towers, he knows there is always wine here (!) and we can try and talk sense into him, and she can have some breathing space to get stuff done.

OP posts:
wizbang · 07/11/2005 21:18

Hi my step dad was an alcholic and I really simpathise its awful and frightening. She should get support from her gp as well as moving away from the home temporarily so he doesnt know where she is. She can take an injunction against him people change so much when they have a drink problem and they never seem to admit it thwts the biggest problem.

My stepdad was found in his flat on the 15 th nov last year and its still very raw when there are kids involved its even harder my little girl ofen says grandads in heaven withe the angels

aloha · 07/11/2005 21:19

How, um, lovely for you! But extremely useful to this woman I think. Do you think your dh could talk some sense into him - obviously not stop him drinking, but being graceful in defeat?

princesspeahead · 07/11/2005 21:25

dh has known him all his life - his mother and dh's mother were at university together. when his mother fled the alcoholic father dh's mother gave them a roof over their head for many months and then helped them settle in england. history repeating itself or what. they have been great friends ever since although on dh's side he has known that this man has had immense problems.

this man has no other friends - dh was best man at both his weddings and is godfather to all 4 of his children! we financially supported him and his 1st wife for some time as well.

OP posts:
princesspeahead · 07/11/2005 21:26

going to call her now. thank you everyone for your help, hugely appreciated. difficult call!

OP posts:
aloha · 07/11/2005 21:41

it all sounds very sad. If I were her I'd be very grateful you were being so helpful and kind.

ninah · 08/11/2005 09:49

fwiw I took advice from a family law practitioner along similar lines, we are not married, living in p's house so in many ways in a weaker position than your friend. Have 3 year old and pregnant. Advice was to stay put until maintenance issues sorted out, and any threats/violence call police and apply for injuction for p to stay away from house.
If she feels threatened and there are young children involved I don't think changing the locks would be entirely out of order but she should check with police/sols. Decisions are taken with regard to welfare of children under Children's Act.
My experience was that CAB not entirely helpful but cons with solicitor thoroughly to be recommended, worth every penny, and it is perfectly possible to do this discreetly. They will put advice in writing. Knowledge is power in this kind of situation.

princesspeahead · 08/11/2005 20:34

thank you so much for your help everyone. we've spoken, I'm going to interview solicitors on the phone and pick one for her, she will arrange to see them, she is going to phone the domestic violence unit and get some advice from the police, she is going to log it with them when she or the children get pushed around (which DOES happen apparently ), and when she is ready we are going to summon him here and tell him straight that he has to deal with her and the children in this divorce in a civilised manner or he will have nothing left in the world except his alcohol. much like his dad ended up.

oh and we have also identified a treatment program we will get him into if he is willing to go.

so we have a plan. it is painful watching someone self-destruct though. and watching what he has put her and the children through. the 5 yr old has been telling his mother for the last year that he doesn't like his father because he only ever shouts at them and stays in bed. the 2 yr old just hasn't a clue.

OP posts:
aloha · 08/11/2005 20:36

I think you are behaving splendidly PPH. What a very wonderful friend you are being.

soapbox · 08/11/2005 20:56

Gosh PPH - poor friend and poor kids!

TBH I even have a bit of sympathy for your DH's friend too. How awful to be so ruled by your next drink that you are reduced to being a controlling old bully! So sad for all concerned really!

I hope that with a bit of support from you and PrincePH, that he can work out how to break this cycle of abuse!

Too late for your friend though which is sad, but if he does get sorted then in the fullness of time it is possible that he could salvage some of his relationship with his children!

Well done - how wonderful to have a friends like you and your DH in such trying times!

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