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Original poster

Friend's 'dating method' - do I say something?

28 replies

KittyChat · 05/05/2011 16:29

A very dear friend of mine has been single for a long time and is really throwing herself headfirst into finding a mate. She is attractive, kind, great fun to be with and just an all-round good person who I like very much.

Her usual MO is to get really drunk and sleep with a guy she meets at the pub/a social gathering. After this she usually has one date with the guy and then never hears back from him.

I think the problem might be that she acts utterly besotted from the get go (think blushing, hair twirling, giggling, eyelash batting etc)- it's very full on and, if I'm brutally honest, a bit scary.

I've just had the following email from her after two recent encounters and I feel so bad for her:

"X and I met some guys in the pub and yeah... I went on a date with one last night which I thought was going OK until I asked if he wanted another and he said 'just a half'... he obviously he was in a rush to get the hell out of there!

Shame, he was nice! And lives closer than X. Who, incidentally has not called me at all.

I'm rubbish at this!"

Do I tell her why I believe she is rubbish (and how the hell would I do that without devastating her?) or do I just butt out? Bear in mind that during the ten years I have known her I have seen the same thing happen again ... and again ... and again.

OP posts:
aleene · 05/05/2011 16:34

Buy her The Rules ? I think the idea it proposes is that the men should do the running.

Icelollycraving · 05/05/2011 16:38

Maybe go out with her & slow her down on the drinking?
Feel for her,when you want to meet someone it can be hard to control the excitement. If she is getting a date after a one night stand,is this because they think she's game for another or does she come on too strong?

Longtalljosie · 05/05/2011 16:42

Don't tell her she's scary, but it might be worth dropping some hints about the importance of playing it a bit cool and letting them do the running?

zikes · 05/05/2011 16:50

She'd be better trying to meet people through hobbies or common interests (other than getting bladdered! Grin) Part of the problem may be she's meeting guys she may have nothing in common with other than beer-goggled attraction and they end up on a date with nothing to say to each other.

Original poster
KittyChat · 05/05/2011 16:52

Thanks guys. I do need to drop hints about playing it cool I think. Any ideas how to do this?

She is a heart-on-your-sleeve girl in every respect - she can't even tell a white lie without blushing, so I think playing it cool will be difficult.

"If she is getting a date after a one night stand,is this because they think she's game for another or does she come on too strong?"

Icelolly - I think it is the latter. I think she has been fun and interesting on the first encounter, but by the time she sees them next she has built them up into 'possible love of my life' and acts accordingly. :/

OP posts:
SueSylvesterforPM · 05/05/2011 16:52

She appears like she may be so insecure and desperate she thinks her best bet is to through herself at anyone with a sniff of tetosterone in her vicinty, I have a mate like this, I think she may have to work her behaviour out for herself

I know its not nice having to watch her be treat badly by these blokes, experience is the best teacher I think in these situations. Doe she go for a caetin type of bloke? maybe sublty steer her towards other pubs??

AMumInScotland · 05/05/2011 16:52

If you want to tell her to change, I'd start it by saying "Nah, you're not rubbish, men are weird..." and then go on to point out how weird it is that men say they want you to act keen, but really like to do more of the chasing themselves, or however you want to put it. I mean, make out its not her that's going about it wrong, but that men are such an odd lot she maybe needs to change her tactics.

SueSylvesterforPM · 05/05/2011 16:53
  • throw
Original poster
KittyChat · 05/05/2011 16:58

I like what you're saying, MuminScotland. Maybe talk about men's behaviour instead of hers.

SueSylvester - aside from the odd idiot (which is probably just the law of averages), most of the guys she's met have been pretty sound/normal.

She does have 'hobbies' and contrary to what my OP does suggest, spends plenty of time pursuing other interests. Although, thinking about it - maybe she needs to rethink. She has just joined a cycling club and says she is the youngest in the club by about 10 years. Hmmm.

OP posts:
Original poster
KittyChat · 05/05/2011 16:59

Oh and Sue - she is not insecure, in fact she has become more confident in herself since I've known her. But maybe desperate (though I really hate that word). I think you may be right. But after ten years, is she really going to work it out for herself?

OP posts:
Longtalljosie · 06/05/2011 09:02

I like AMumInScotland's approach

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 06/05/2011 09:55

DON'T BUY HER THE FUCKING RULES! It's an awful, awful book. The message is basically 'Erase your personality to get a man, remember that men are your natural superiors'. It 'works' on men who like a woman to Know Her Place and some of its message of complete self-negation is verging on the dangerous.

I thnk Zikes got it in one - she is meeting men who she has little or nothing in common with other than beer-goggled lust (though there is nothing wrong with that in itself). Tht might be the key thinkg to point out to her - that these men might well be oafs or boring or wierd. Has she tried internet dating? Or do you think she is too desperate for that (ie wil decide that a man is The ONe on the strength of three MSN messages and flip when he doesn't delete his dating site profile the minute she's arranged a date with him)?

electra · 06/05/2011 10:01

Completely agree that The Rules is an awful book. I would encourage her to acquire interests / hobbies which she enjoys and will find enable her to find like-minded people. It sounds as if she has directly asked for your help so I guess you should make suggestions but don't say anything negative about her because that will damage her self-esteem.

garlicbutter · 06/05/2011 10:09

She's not treating them as people. Nobody likes to feel they're just being seen as a generic gap-filler because they've got a penis or a vagina. I'd point this out to her: ask her to slow down and see if she LIKES them. Sounds like she's massively bothered about whether her dates fancy her, totally forgetting they're actually two individuals who may or may not get along ...

AttilaTheMeerkat · 06/05/2011 10:42

Was wondering where this all really started with her; she could have learnt an awful lot of damaging stuff about relationships from her parents when growing up particularly if their relationship was rocky or if her Dad left the family home.

I would suggest she reads "Women who love too much" written by Robin Norwood.

Her methods to date are clearly not working; she needs to love her own self for a change because she may not. She is perhaps trying to find something in these people that her own self lacks but they will not be able to give her what she wants. Being as desparate as she is as well puts her too readily in the firing line of lowlifes who are all too willing to take advantage of her.

garlicbutter · 06/05/2011 11:14

i Second your book recommendation. Atilla.

MrsMiniver · 06/05/2011 11:18

Getting legless and shagging a guy the first night is fine in itself but almost certainly that'll be that. Interesting she gets a second go sometimes but her behaviour IS desperate and no wonder she frightens them off. But more importantly she hasn't given herself the chance to find out if she actually likes them. How old is your friend? Is she desperate to settle down and have kids?
Her self-esteem sounds very low and I know how hard that is to change but it can be done (I've been working on mine for years!)

Agree she could try t'internet, make sure she doesn't get pissed on the first date and go slowly. She has a lot to offer from what you say about her OP so should have no trouble meeting men. Get her to read Why Men Love Bitches and most definitely avoid the Rules at all costs.

waterrat · 06/05/2011 15:48

I would recommend you do say something. I behaved mentally around men for years and it was comments (kind ones) from friends that gradually woke me up to the fact that I was not helping myself. Be kind though - it's so easy to see from the outside when someone is being self destructive. I would start the conversation by being prepared to listen not just lecture - if the atmosphere is right, you might find she would love to talk about it. Ask about her family, what she belives about relationships. I think you are being short sighted to say she is confident - this is not a woman who is truely confident. Being bubbly and outgoing are not the same as confidence. She obviously doesnt believe in herself where men are concerned. So take it slowly and it might take a few gentle conversations - dont just lecture her....ask her if she is happy and where she might be going wrong - try to get her to think about what she is really looking for.

waterrat · 06/05/2011 15:49

ps. I think it is definitely possible to say - yes you are rubbish, but say 'its because you are lovely and you are going for the wrong men'

AlpinePony · 06/05/2011 18:28

I'd second AttilaTheMeerkat's recommendation of "Women Who Love Too Much". I used to build a fantasy about a man I'd just met - of course it meant erasing my personality and being whatever I thought they wanted me to be. I stepped back and threw myself in to fitness, as my genuine self-confidence and self-worth increased I was falling over "good" men and fell in love with one who saw (and loved) me for me. I wasn't that desperate to land him because I was so happy in myself.

The first time I had sex with him I was sober, that was a maaaaaajor improvement for me! Wink

Bellebelicious · 06/05/2011 18:33

I have never read The Rules and bow to everyone else's superior knowledge, but did see a TV programme on it - and whilst the premise behind it may be some type of hideous 1950's fantasy - some of the behaviours (like don't drop everything in your life the minute a man asks you out or act like the only important thing to you is a date with him) are pretty sound, if you don't want to come across as desperate and needy.

I think it might be easier to buy her the book, just to raise the topic. You can always say one friend of yours recommended it, but another thought it was awful and discuss it? Whether you think it's good or bad, if anything is worth trying? Finding a decent bloke is never going to be easy, but if after 10 years you've never had a second date, and you don't smell or two heads, then something's seriously wrong.

Somebody else mentioned the drinking. Do you think she could give up for 6 months? Getting plastered and shagging a stranger is pretty grim for most people (not against casual sex, just think it should be about the woman doing it for sexual pleasure not because she's off her head and want a boyfriend). Also, if she doesn't sleep with them straight away, she can just enjoy finding out about them and if she likes them - chose whether to take it further. I like that bit of a relationship myself and one of the reasons I never slept with men straight away when I was single was because I enjoyed the 'getting intimate' bit and getting to the point when you know 100% that you have to shag this man senseless that very night, or you will explode.

(I still ended up with a twat though, so although my advice on how to get dates stands, I don't have a fucking clue how to pick a decent partner).

ivykaty44 · 06/05/2011 18:35

Men love a girl that will sleep with them on a first date - its great. Men don't like to actually date a girl that will sleep with them on a first date as there was no delayed gratification and she probably does that with everyone yuk

Maybeitsbecause · 06/05/2011 18:39

She doesn't need some phony old self help book. Friends don't buy each other those, they sit each other down and talk straight. Tell her that you have a theory as why she may be scaring blokes off (you may not be rght, so bear that in mind).

She might want to rethink the shagging blokes on the first date thing, too...

NettoSuperstar · 06/05/2011 18:48

I know where you are coming from.
A friend of mine is net dating, and it's painful to sit back and watch.

Most of the time she cries because X was texting her for a week, but then doesn't want to meet up.
She gives them everything they want on webcam, but just doesn't get it.

I've given up.

She is actually seeing someone now, but he is such a loser. He turns up when he feels like it, has a shag, expects a meal, and then texts her all the time drunk saying he thinks they shouldn't bother anymore, and yet she still hangs in there.
She doesn't even fancy him, he's just a guy, and that's better than no guy Sad

Eurostar · 06/05/2011 20:58

That's sad Netto. Try to tell her to stop the webcam thing now. These guys can record what she does and look at it/share it on the net anytime, forever.

Kitty - try to encourage her to keep alcohol away from dating if that's possible to have that conversation? She's probably doing it as she's so nervous and thinks it helps her relax but of course it is counter productive