My teenage daughter has gone to live with my narcisstic X

[freedomatacost]

Hope u can help. After two years of hell going through Family Court, my fourteen year old daughter is now living full time with her father. He is violent and still succeeding in hurting me by brain washing our kids. The Court tried to keep her with me but when she was it was terrible and she kept going back to her dads. He has told her that I love my younger daughter (10) more than her (in fact it is he that wants the older daughter - who looks like him, and not the younger daughter). I feel I have let her down but her behaviour was so bad and I was getting ill. She won't talk to me what should I do?

I just wanted to say thank you again to everyone who has contributed.

What vixy0007 wrote has made me think and helped so much. I am so sorry to hear what you went through and I know how much it must have hurt your mum. What happened to you is so close to what I believe has happened to my daughter. I have had counselling and I have great friends but to chat with others who have similar stories is so helpful. I only wish I had found this site when everything was at it worst.

I thought I would mention that a good book to read is "Malignant Self Love" about narcissism, I wish I had read this before I separated things might be very different now. All those who have hepled xoxo

I'm so sorry freedom,

not much helpful advice Im afraid just wanted to say.

This was the first link I found when I googled 'emotional incest'. Heavy, but covers it pretty well

Social services recognise the damage caused to the child if s/he is in an emotionally incestuous dynamic with a parent. Imo narcs have no compunction about using their own children to fulfil the narc's adult need to control and have somone (anyone) in their thraw, forcing a relationship on the child that involves the same control, brainwashing and coercing/grooming they use in their adult relationships. If your daughter is in a dynamic like this with her father then you really must do something to alert the relevant authorities to get her removed from his care.

Hi
I have recently seperated from H, difficult second marriage,emotionally and mentally abusive, charming when he wanted to be, addicted to on-line game, lazy......married for 16y, sold house-now in rented......can't believe I have done it.....tried to do many times.....well the price i paid was my nearly 13y old boy decided to move in with Dad. I have my older boy with me. I earn more, he now thinks he dosent have to support boys financially-he has capital and small inheritance coming to him!
I know how it feels to have a child living apart but I am consistant with the love for my boy, the door is always open, I ring daily, try to see him most days and he will stay. At this age , they can make more decisions. Im sad at the breakdown of my family but I was desperately unhappy and couldn't keep it going any longer.

Stay strong....she will always be your daughter, will always love you xxx

I have told all the authorities that I believe my ex is having an "emotional incestuous relationship" with my daughter but they do not believe it is serious enough. They did not live with the "nutter" for 15 years! U r probably saying how could u stay if he was that bad? My answer - I could not leave cos he was that bad! When at last I was strong enough, it still took "the armed guard" to get the message through to him, that he had to keep away from me and I did not have to go back to him. My very big regret is that I did not do it earlier for everyones sake.

By incisisting my teenage DD stays with me, would make her even more determined to live with her dad and resent me. The advice I have been given about trying to "chill" when I am around her and give her the right to chose where she wants to stay, is probably the best option now. I always tell her I love her everytime I see her.

If u r in a similar situation please try to read (preferably before u separate) "Divorce Poison" - it is very disturbing but gives great insight.

This sight is helping me tremendously! Thxs to all again!

I'm not saying how could you stay if he was that bad - I know why we stayed and know the superhuman effort it took to leave.

As for your daughter and the worrying relationship she has with her dad, can you collect evidence and keep presenting it to the powers that be? I appreciate that you are probably stuck between a rock and a hard place re you dread having her back living with you, particularly if you are successful and she is separated from living with her dad.

Again, prayer. It's not some magic woo, it really is powerful, awesomely so. I have times of tremendous lethargy about my situation, real despair, but I keep plugging away at the prayer (even if a lot of it is obscenities at the mo - he's my dad, I can complain...). Do you read the bible? incredible for giving you hope - psalms and isaiah have been particularly heartwarming for me, giving me solid hope.

Thanks for your time and support. The thing is I prayed relentlessly for months. I made a humoungous effort with the Family Court and got the best lawyer. Now I am resigned, all I can do is build myself up, get a job, keep sending the message to her that I love her and hope it will not take too long til she returns. Thanks again, it is great to know that someone cares enough to write!

I am slowly going to go through everyone that responded to my "thread". You were the first and have stuck in my mind. You are one of those beautiful, caring people who give others faith in humanity. I really appreciate what u said and did, thank you so much for getting the ball rolling. I received a great deal of amazing advice. Thank you so much, continue the good work! D x

Sorry, the last message I wrote will hopefully be read by SugarPasteFrog

ok then, I can cope with not being beautiful or caring

same here, prayed relentlessly, got unbelievably mashed up in the family courts. Still pray though - where else is there to go? The prayer bears fruit - sorry about this overt religious language but it really does, just not in the way you/we had hoped ie not immediately.

I'll stop flogging that particular horse though - I think I've made my point and hope it isn't offensive to you. We're both in the same boat, plus others on here. It's helped me, as it has you, to realise we're not alone with this horror of losing our kids.

Thanks springdaffs u r wonderful too!
I do not want to offend anyone but I tried to pray and open my heart to God but felt it did not help me. It did not help with the pain of a child turning there back on you. I instead now keep busy and try to put my energy into the positive things in my life. I do not stay by myself too much and have found that people are generally uplifting and supportive.

I do record the "parenting" of my ex but it is considered "weak" by the Courts. I will give "Divorce Poison" another plug because it answers so many questions about narcistic behaviour.

I keep in regular contact with my DD1s teacher, school and freinds. It is unfortunate but most of my communication with my DD1 is through my DD2. I know this is wrong but it is what is happening. I get an email from my DD2 when she is at her dads and DD1 will put in a joke or something. This I believe is encouraging but who knows.

Thanks again springdaffs and everyone else.

Bump!

This is my worst nightmare. My x is one fuckedupnark as well and also favours the child who looks like him.

Keep telling your daughter you love her and invite her over for a pizza and try to keep things 'light'.

I honestly see myself having to deal with this one day. I feel for you.

I very much hope that you do not have to go through what I have been through, valiumbandwitch. I do not want to frighten you but I would start by preparing for the worst. These "fuckedupnarks" can cause so much damage if you try to leave them and no longer pretend that they are the center of the universe. I wanted to leave for 15 years but it took intense planning and even then I could not work everthing out. It just got so bad I I just left, not knowing where I was going.

I could never have imagined that my ex could take his revenge, by turning the loving relationship I had with my DD1 into a "nightmare". You must never underestimate these creeps!

I send messages any way I can to my DD1 and will carry on trying. I hear reports through the grapevine and try to find out how she is getting on.

On a good note my self-esteem is definately growing and although no job yet, I have had two interviews which is promissing.

Thanks again for the great support!

Im not alone!
Since my daughter left school she has yearned independence. Moaned if I have tried to stop her going out, accused me of being the strictest mum of all her mates and quite noticeably started to spend less and less time with me. Looking back to this time last year it was stupid things at first, not doing what i asked, not tidying up after herself (to be fair this had always been a struggle) having "attitude", being rude to me in front of friends etc. Accusing me of stalking her on facebook, stopping all her fun, always running her down?. The accusations went on? anyway at the time I guess I just thought it was all normal teenage stuff?. A few friends mentioned they had seen comments about drugs on her facebook so while I was thinking its just normal I was also on red alert as well. Things went rapidly downhill last October; on a random check around her room i looked in her handbag and found five bags of weed. I was beside myself. I panicked I didn?t know what to do, in the end I flushed it all down the toilet and left the empty bags on her bed. We had a big argument and she ran away to her dads. In a nutshell her dad told her if she moved out he would give her the maintenance he gives me.... he and I had a very bad divorce. He was never a violent man but he was controlling and possessive, did not even like me seeing my own family. In the end it ruined our marriage. He pretty much turned his back on her when I ended having to go to the CSA. The CSA was a last resort after two years of trying to come to an amicable agreement. It was hard for her when she was little she would cry and get upset but as she got older in the end she only went to see him when she wanted something.It was sad but i guess i felt he sort of deserved it. Anyway so it began, he, in my eyes, had sewn the seed.... she wanted out and he had offered her a glimmer of hope... she came home just a few days later, with a stupid tattoo on her breast, a hand drawn image of a tattoo that her favorite pop star has. I found out the shop that did it and had the police visit them, sadly the police were not willing to do anything despite the fact she is only 16 as she would not give a statement?.. My daughter was livid with me, saying it was her choice and I had no right to do that. She went on to demand total freedom, to come and go as she pleased and just to add to it she also advised me she had voices in her head and was self-harming. OMG what can I say, I was spinning, but she said she wanted help so I started to find out what we could do?. One thing she would not listen to was smoking weed would make things worse, she insisted she had the voices for years, would spend hours under her bed shaking and scared and this was apparently well before the weed. About the same time we also had a parents meeting at her college where she pretty much curled up into a ball while her tutor all but shone a light in my face advising she was struggling and if there was anything they should know i should tell them. My daughter just sat there looking angry, all I could think of saying was there are issues at home but we were dealing with them. She went mad at me for this, saying I was making things worse. Things were up and down after that, just as I hoped we were getting somewhere she would turn on me and we would be right back. I took her to the doctors, I tried to be supportive and more patient, not push and tried to keep my mouth shut when really I would b screaming in my head what I wanted to say. Then a friend pointed out she had put on face book she was planning to buy some weed from a named person at a named time at a named place. I could not keep my mouth shut and I did tell her she was being a fool advertising such stuff on facebook.I and anybody I knew was blocked on facebook. A few weeks later she and her mates trashed my house and before I could do anything she moved out to a friends. To be fair she did try clean it up but there was too much damage to cover it all up. , I was as mad as hell and we had a huge argument however at the same time I was so scared for her I tried to keep communications up, for example taking her and her flat mate out for dinner on a few occasions and trying not to dwell on the bad side. Things did not work out with her mate and two weeks later she moved to her dads. The first I knew was an email from him telling me she had gone to his. In a way I was pleased she was with an adult. However soon after I got a text from her asking what I spent her maintenance on as none of it ever went on her. After I pointed out what she had over the past year including 3 holidays, college fees, bus fare, a scooter, monthly allowance etc. she accused me of twisting words, said I was ignorant or it could have been arrogant and all I ever did was pull her down. I was gobsmaked, still am to be honest. She has now not talked to me for about three/four weeks. Despite me sending emails (I admit) almost begging her to get in contact so we can talk about it?.. I have cried till it hurts, I have gone over and over in my head trying to work out what I have done so wrong, I have gone through the feelings of guilt. I even accused her dad of turning her agsnt me, all this got me was him saying unless I cooperate he will cut me off as well, If that happened the little info I get now from him on how she is will dry up.... so I had to say sorry to him. I am devastated; that girl was my life and soul and all I ever wanted was the best for her. I love her with all my heart and whilst I accept I have not maybe always reacted best (I?m only human) my intentions have always been for the right reason. I can honestly say I have never felt such emotional pain. I feel a failure, I feel betrayed, hurt?. You name it. The worst is if my mind wanders to her as a little girl. So cute and loving. It?s a killer?? I know I must harden up, if only for my own sake but my goodness all you mums out there I feel for you??. I have now decided its ok to cry when I feel like it but I need to accept there is nothing I can do?. I need to stop tryng to get her to talk to me now and well I just need to sit it out and just hope one day she will see it for what it is. I will pay her dad maintenance for the next year and all I can hope is he is being a better dad now. I have left the door open for her but only she can decide if she wants me back in her life, as hard as that is, that?s just the way it is? When im feeling realy bad I say over and over in my head ?you ARE a good mum, just be patient now??.. it helps me 95% of the time?.good luck mums x

Wow. You poor thing. I don't think her father will want her to end up with no education and smoking bags of weed.

What did she expect? That you hand over the maintenance for her to spend on more tattoos and weed?!

Are you seriously expected to pay her Dad money if he is just going to give it to her in pocket money??

Flipping heck.

I hope that even though your X is still trying to get at you (re maintenance) that he will actually try to keep her on some sort of path.

Thankfully I am not alone!!! My story-My ex-husband and I separated in 2000 we divorced in 2008 so my daughter was no stranger to the fact that her father and I were not getting back together. I started seeing my current boyfriend of ten years shortly after my ex and I separated. My boyfriend gave me everything that I yearned for in my ex-husband and treated my daughter like his own (without stepping on ex's toes). My ex-husband is a narcissist and physically abused my daughter since she was approximately two. In the beginning of our relationship I worked nights for a check processing company and he stayed home with her at nights and I took care of her during the day. I left her with the one person on earth I thought I could trust the most. I was very wrong! I came home to find my two year old duct taped to a computer chair with duct tape across her mouth as part of "time out". He would pick her up by her head, he has dislocated her elbow, locked himself in the bedroom with her with me locked out so that he could yell at her and no matter how hard I tried I could not budge that door! A few years ago she told me that when she was three he kicked her out of our apartment, she opened up the door and went outside, she knocked on the neighbors door and when he opened the door her father opened our door and told her to come back in the house. He made her get in the push up position and stay there without putting her knees down or her time was extended. When I separated from him my daughter was at the age of being able to tell me what was going on around her, other-wise I would have left him a long time prior to all this ( I was a very young and stupid mother!!!) I regret letting my child have to suffer his abusive ways. But in my defense I was not home to see a lot of what was going on I found out about a lot of this by coming home from work with-out telling him I was on my way. He played a lot of video games and drank a lot of beer. He is a very controlling person. He never really wanted anything to do with her once we went our own separate ways. I was the one that put her in all of her sports/dance classes/gymnastics and between myself and my boyfriend we were the ones that attended all of them and/or got her to her games/practices/recitals. In the time that my ex and I were separated he never paid child support and never offered help but I never kept her from seeing him. When our divorce was final he was on paper required to pay child support. In our divorce papers he got her everyweekend and I had her every week and I agreed on a lesser child support payment because he made me feel bad that he had to drive so far for work. (More of me believing stupid lies from this man). After the divorce papers were final he told me that he wanted to move in with his girlfriend which would have been no big deal except for the fact that she lives only 10 minutes from where he works and he wouldn't pay me anymore child support at least the total that he should have really paid based on his income. In May of last year my daughter called the cops on me and said that she was afraid that I was going to hit her. I have never laid my hands on my child in any way harmful, I even stopped spanking her because I thought that she had been put through enough by her father. I felt like I had been slapped in the face. The next day I said that she could live with her father and I have not seen her since. I have sent her e-mails with paragraphs full of conversations and her replys are maybe three sentences. I watched my child grow up on facebook and that is devastating. I was only able to see her in pictures going to school dances. She turned 15 last Friday and it hurts to not be able to hug my baby girl everyday and tell her I love her. I miss her very, very much!!! I know that her father was in on telling her what she should do and has used money as a ploy to get her to come live with him. He no longer pays me child support and that was the biggest part he was after. But his hurting me by taking the child that I always loved and cared for was the biggest hurt he could ever put on me. I cry all the time and wish for my baby to come home to her me where she belongs. I have been removed from her friends list on facebook so I can't even see what she is doing now a days. She does not call, write, text, or e-mail me. She has alienated my whole side of the family. I miss her so much it hurts.

Hi Val
yeah i guess that was what she wanted as that was what she asked me to do..... she suggeted if she she went to live with her dad i would have to then pay him maintenace so why not i just give it to her...... I tried to find a middle ground and contacted her college, they have on site student accomodation so i offered to pay towards this. I thought if it was under the college at least there would be some control.... she has turned her back on this and my intentions there backfired. According to her dad, quote "she wants to do her second year at kettering now are you trying to push her away by saying you want her to stay at leamington". He lives in another county,,,, all i can hope now is he wants her to get a good education more than he wants to get at me.....and yes if she is living with him i have to give him money...... i dont dissagree so long as that is where she is..... i just fear she off doing all sorts of stuff now with no guidance at all.......

Siybear
you are not alone, i cried with you, every word!
You know i just hope the age of our daughters means one day they will wake up and realise what they gave up...... dont give up hope x

Your stories are so sad, and make me so worried. I had a terrible day with my daughter yesterday...........

I am so sorry to read your stories, they made me cry and feel the pain. No parent (or child) should have to go through this kind of crap. The nightmare will only be over when our kids are away from these "fuckedupnarcs". I am so sick of my Ex "messing with their heads". I just try to be positive and strong. When my DD2 says "his words", I no longer take the bait and try not too feel hurt or angry. After the separtaion both of the girls started to be violent towards me, this has now stopped. DD2 seems to be happier.

I saw DD1 at the school this morning and she came up to my car and spoke to me. It was wonderful to see her and I was probalbly overly emotional asking when she might come to mine. I know I have been advised to "chill" but it is hard when you haven't seen your child for months. She answered "soon", which was great and shows a minor break through. But with DD1 it has been a roller coaster, so I will just keep hoping that she will return soon.

freedomatacost-does your ex push her or tell her that she needs to contact you on Mothers day or your birthday? Since I haven't seen or heard from my daughter in over a year I know that when I see her again I will be a blubbering mess....tears are welling in my eyes just thinking of that preciouse moment. I didn't do anything to deserve the treatment that my daughter and my ex have given me. My ex does not tell her to call or get in contact with me at all. He is a complete jerk. I wish to never see his face or hear his voice ever again. I just want my baby girl back in my life again!

A glimmer of hope... At 10.30 this morning my phone went, shock? it was my daughter... she was at the house trying to get in to get some stuff. (We have a key guard with a spare key but i changed the number assuming she would try get in while I was out sometime). She asked for the number, i told her i did not know it as i don?t use it (partly true as I can never remember numbers, which she knows) but would be happy to pop over to let her in. "That?s very annoying" was her reply. I kept my calm and said it?s up to you.... She said she was with her dad in the car and really needed some stuff so reluctantly agreed. I left work (I am lucky to have a really understanding boss), shaking like a leaf, i had no idea what she was going to be like. I can?t believe how shaky I was, I felt so nervous... Anyway when i got there sure enough there was my ex and her in a car. In a nut shell she started off being quite offish and even tried to start an argument over money but i just refused to chat about it. After a while we then had a normal conversation about her meeting a celeb in town the other day and she gleefully clapped eyes on her Easter eggs that have been I had left in her bedroom. (So glad i never ate them, been tempted a few times).... she commented nobody had got her any... Just before she left she turned to me and asked why couldn?t I have told her i was willing to help with college accommodation before she sorted out her life at her dads..... i pointed out i had emailed her and talked to her dad about it, tried to call but she kept diverting my calls?.. she said she never reads her emails and I just kept ringing at inconvenient times... (It?s never her fault, that?s a trait from her dad for sure) anyway she then said she wasn?t sure she wanted to leave Leamington, but now she had no choice as her dad would get mad if she changed her mind, more so as he had bought her a brand new scooter and she now owed him loads of money as well. There were a million things i could have said but knowing how easy it is for things to twist and I did not want to stomp in. i just calmly said i was sure her dad would understand if she really wanted to stay where she was? (yeah right, now i knew his intentions are just to get at me, all i have had from him the past few months is how happy she is, how great she is at his, how contented she is etc... does the housework, cooking and is an angel, not smoked etc etc etc). I slipped in a little comment about her cooking and she looked at me like i was mad and said we eat takeaways every night it?s great... Anyway i tried to sound as casual as i could and said it?s her life and she has to make her own decisions?.... she threw in it was my fault and I just point ed out she had time to sort college if she really wanted and I had said I would help and I couldn?t do any more than that?. I asked her what it was she expected me to say, she said she did not know?.. So that was it really, as she left i gave her a hug and whispered in her ear to just remember i love her. She did pushed me away but I did go in for the hug just before she got in the car so it was in front of her dad, silly move on my part maybe... but later i got a txt asking how the cat was as she had not seen her.... so here we are, her dad is playing games for sure, and I am trying to play it cool?. Maybe, just maybe we have broken the ice a little today and other than hiring a hit man to sort this all out I just have to wait and see? After they left i cried but i think it was from the relief of seeing her..... Thank god I changed that key guard combination, tonight i go to bed with a bit of hope....

Sadbutture1-Congratulations on a hopeful breakthrough! I know for sure that when I see my daughter again I will not have the strength to keep my composure in front of her. It is crazy the hold our kids have on us mothers, but I know one thing, if I EVER did to my Mom what my daughter has done to me I would only be typing this with one finger and breathing through an assisted air tube :) I made a lot of wrong choices as a teen but I always needed my Momma and I respect her as the woman who gave me life (her favorite quote was "I brought you into this world and I can take you out!" and thankfully she is always there for me when I need her especially through this difficult time in my life. I just hope that one day my only child will see that she can't get from his girl friend what her own mother can give her, NO ONE LOVES A CHILD LIKE THEIR OWN MOTHER, NO ONE!!!!

I feel for you Siebear. I hope so much for you and all the other parents in a similar position that your children come home to you. My Ex would never tell my daughters to acknowledge my birthday etc. He convinced my older daughter to stop calling me "Mum" but just use my first name. This realy hurt that is what he wants. I know Siebear you do not want anything more to do with your Ex, but my advice is to try not to think about him. Take his power away. Put all your energy into boosting your self up and thinking about the love you have for your daughter and the memeories you have of her. He is a "Jerk" and not going to change - thats his problem if the selfish b***d, he cannot think beyond his revenge. You must think of the positive for example-you don't have to live with him anymore Huuurrraaayyy!

It was great to hear the news about you seing your daughter Sadbuttrue1! I hope with all my heart she comes back to you soon. It is clear that you love her very much. Teenagers are very self centered and she probalby has no idea how much she is hurting you. I always try to hug my daughter when I see her - thats what mums do! Hang in there and be strong!

I take it day by day, still in disbelief this has happened. But there is nothing I can do but keep trying and hoping and yes try to "chill" when I see her.