Need advice :( please...

[sadnblue]

Well where do I start? I'm sorry if this is too long. I am 29, DH is 32. We have 4 children together and have been married since 2005. We met via an online chat room in 2000. The first few years were very rocky. Everything in the past 11 years felt like it was forced on me. Yes I made my choices, but always felt rushed into doing so. Like getting married, I didnt feel ready but it was very important to him, so I went ahead and married him. I never to this day regretted marrying him, just felt like it was rushed.

We got married in 2005. I was pregnant with our 3rd at the time. My sister in law and I went to my first wedding dress fitting. It didnt last as long as we thought it would so i returned home early. Only to find DH on his pc using some sort of web cam sex site. Of course he tried to deny it an close it all down in some frantic panic, like I expect any other man would when they have been caught out doing something they think is wrong. We didnt talk for the rest of the day. It was eating me up so we spoke about it the next day. He promised he would never ever go to those sites again, he said he understood how it made me feel. I'm an insecure person as it is. He knows this and has since the first time we ever spoke. I made it perfectly clear how that stuff, including porn, makes me feel. We came to an agreement that if he wanted to watch porn then we watch it together. Not behind my back. For the next 3 or 4 months that followed, I'm pretty sure he stuck to it. We even watched porn together and although I didnt enjoy it, I did enjoy making him happy.

Oh, and I also would have sex 5 times a day if given the chance. I LOVE sex. So I always thought he would have no reason to need to use those sites. I just assumed he was happy having sex 3 times a week even though he knew I wanted it more.

I guess some of the trust got destroyed that day, because over the years I constantly checked his pc for any signs. 2007 he had done it again. I tried to bring it up but he swore blind he hadnt been looking at them. I let it go, maybe I was wrong even though the evidence was there.

4 weeks ago I got rushed into hospital. I had to have an emergency operation. I was on hospital for 10 days. The day after my operation I spent 4 hours trying to get hold of DH. He eventually did get back to me saying he was sleeping. I shrugged it off but thought it was odd...it was the middle of the day. I left it at that.

Next day, DH came in to see me. I told him I knew he had been on those sites again...he admitted it, told me he was lonely and was sorry and he wouldnt ever look at them again. Deja vu. I got discharged and went to my sisters house. I couldnt face him. He spent the whole day trying to get in touch with me. I eventually picked up the phone and we spoke. He said he couldnt lose me and didnt realise it hurt me so much. I geuss the conversations we had in the previous years went in one ear and out the other. At one point he even tried to say its because im not adventurous enough and just 'dont do it' for him.

I came home. We even had sex a few times a couple of weeks after, to try making me feel secure. But there is nothing there. I feel nothing. It is honestly like living with a roommate. He knows something is wrong because he will constantly repeat 'why do you look so miserable?'.

He might be able to forget, but I cant :( How do i forget? Is this the end of our marriage? What do I do?

It's a slippery slope if he hasn't had any counselling for his addiction. Think that needs addressing before anything else is decided.

would he go tho??

To be completely honest, I dont think he has an addiction as such. It only ever seems to happen when I'm not around (like being in hospital, or shopping). I'm guessing maybe once a month, or once every 2 months. Although he now knows how to delete his history its impossible to know just when.

And to answer the question if he would go....unlikely. I'd probably have to come up with something like 'ive met someone else..' or something to get him to move out.

He has looked at porn whilst you were in hospital (and once in 2005 and 2007)? I understand that it upset you very much but actually doesn't sound like it is the worst behaviour..... can you not try to forgive him again? You have 4 children together and unless there is something else, this sounds a bit like one of those downs in the ups and downs of an otherwise solid and happy married life. Might you be feeling down after the operation? I have heard that anaesthetics can leave people depressed for a few weeks (don't know if that is still true with modern anaesthetics, mind, but someone will be along soon who knows).

Good luck.

membership of sites with webcamming etc,arent free usually. can you look on bank statements etc?

which site is he using?

if you both want the marriage to succeed and are both willing to work at it, there is every chance it will

Apart from the (infrequent) porn use, do you have a solid and happy relationship? Are you close? Do you love each other and support each other?

You say things were rocky from the start, in what way where they rocky?

What was your relationship like between 2000 aqnd 2005?

Is there anything else, apart from the porn use? (which really doesn't sound like an addiction, but he should have taken into account your feelings and stuck to his word about not using it).

Thank you for your replies. Unfortunately we have separate bank accounts and I have no access to his statements (he opted out of the paper statements a few years ago). I'm not sure what the sites are called. He deletes his history now and I guess has been since the first time he got caught out in 2005. From that time until 2007 when I did come across some web cam porn sites in his history, I assumed he hadnt been on them. Yet when we spoke about it the day after I got discharged from hospital, his exact words to me were 'I looked at porn and webcam sites before I met you, when i met you, and after I met you..I'm a man, its what men do'.

It makes me feel the last 11 years have been a lie. So hard to explain. Like he isnt the guy I thought he was. The guy he made out he was. He ALWAYS told me he hated that sort of thing as it was degrading to woman. Its making me question other things hes told me, like how I'm the first woman hes ever been with. All the things that made me love him, well now I'm questioning if they were actually a lie.

I checked his history yesterday whilst he was mowing the lawn, it was clean, he had deleted everything again...same on his phone, call logs, messages, photos etc were deleted.

I dont deny he loves me, I'm just unsure if i still love him :( theres no trust, no spark. It is like my emotions to him have completely closed up.

He seems to have different priorities from yours. And I think a man who thinks he can go on a porn site while his pregnant fiancee is having a fitting for her wedding dress needs to ask himself some questions about what exactly those priorities are.

OP this seems to be eating you from the inside out. You don't know if he has been telling you the truth about the extent of his porn habit (a lot of porn is free and you mightn't necessarily be able to track it down via financial records). You don't know if you as a woman are 'enough' for him despite your demonstrated commitment (4 children plus marriage) and attraction to him, and I know from experience that there is nothing more soul-destroying than that. On top of that, the question "Why do you look so miserable?" is nothing short of cruel. WTF???? He is messing with your mind.

well if its all clean,perhaps he's ing it more than he's admitting to

is the cam attached to comp or separate?

''I looked at porn and webcam sites before I met you, when i met you, and after I met you..I'm a man, its what men do'. Weasel words. He is asking you to accept something you have said you cannot. Or else?????

Could you say "I have abhorred porn since before we met, after we met, and especially now. It's the way I am. It's how women feel."

I think your feelings or having had the rug swept from under your feet are justified in the circumstances. You really are living with a stranger.

The only thing I would quibble with is whether he loves you. He probably has an attachment to the lifestyle you have together, but loving you ? Can you love someone and at the same time deceive them so comprehensively? (looking at the clearing of history I think there is substantial deceit going on here) Would you do that to him?

mathanxiety - wow, you took the words right out of my mouth. ''You don't know if you as a woman are 'enough' for him'' is exactly that. I couldnt have sex for around 2 weeks after my operation but did try 'treating' him orally...he found it VERY difficult to orgasm...Maybe because I didnt live up to the woman he had been watching/asking to do stuff. Maybe because he no longer finds me attractive.

ILoveTIFFANY - its seperate, he also has a laptop with a built in cam but I dont know his password to even log into that thing. He did however let me use it one day after i came home as i was unable to sit at the pc...again, it was unusually clean.

overmydeadbody - I always thought we had a solid relationship. Not so much happy. The relationship was rocky for many things, I got pregnant 6 weeks or so after meeting him for the first time. We broke up when I was about 12 weeks pregnant due to his parents saying some crappy stuff about me and he refused to say anything back to them due to living with them. We got back together just before our son was born. He moved in 3 months later even though i begged him not to as I wasnt ready....yes we had a baby but I was only 19, i didnt feel ready for babies/marriage/moving him into my house. He turned up one day with all of his stuff and that was that. Everything seemed to be moving too fast. We argued alot but when our second baby came along in 2004 everything seemed to settle down, it was like the 'housewife and mother' switch went on in my head and I wouldnt have it any other way. I love my children dearly and having them was the best thing i ever did.

''(looking at the clearing of history I think there is substantial deceit going on here) Would you do that to him?''

hell no! He is free to check EVERYTHING of mine. He even read through my diaries i kept from when i was in my teens when he moved in with me (he found them in a box in my attic)..I couldnt care less, I have nothing AT ALL to hide from him. He knows that, I think thats why he never checks.

"Could you say "I have abhorred porn since before we met, after we met, and especially now. It's the way I am. It's how women feel."
"
darn, that would have been an awesome response, why didnt i think of that when he said it :( !!

Reading your posts gives a sense that things just 'happen' to you, and you feel you have no control over your own life. Married feeling it was too soon, but not too soon to be expecting your third child with him. I would say three kids are a much bigger commitment/tie than marriage.

I can't help feeling you're not taking responsibility for your own choices here. I don't mean that to be unsupportive, but perhaps you are aware deep down of doing deals to maintain the status quo yourself, and not ready to face that. You met him in a chat room, so he is unlikely to be a stranger to them, he lied repeatedly to you and you stayed, he told you that he disliked porn, it was degrading to woman and yet you watched it with him. You treated him to oral sex after an emergency op where he was out of contact with you for four hours, doing god knows what.

But you're still there. Jailing him, mothering him and policing him. What's in it for you?

So he has a history of treating your wishes as if they didn't matter?

The undermining of your confidence in the sexual area can lead to a huge loss of self esteem in every other area. Your womanly attractiveness to your own H, or how you feel about it is a big part of the self esteem of most women whether we care to admit it or not. When you're confident that your H thinks you're the bees knees it makes a lot of difference. When you worry and wonder, it's the opposite.

Indeed, having children was a bigger commitment then marriage. Maybe saying I think it was too soon to get married was the wrong choice of words. I just didnt want to get married. Plain and simple. At that point in time I didnt want to marry him. Not because I didnt love him. Just because I didnt want to get married at that point in time.

I have spent 11 years trying to make him happy, giving him anything and everything i possibly could. Yes, even marriage. Something I didnt want, I did it for him because I love him and want him to be happy.

Things dont just 'happen' to me. I made choices, I made my own bed and now I have to lie in it. I know that.

I'm now almost 30 years old and this latest stint of web cam/porn shit has finally hit home that this isnt a relationship. Its me just trying to please the one single guy ive ever loved....but why am I? When i feel the last 11 years have been total lies and i cant trust anything he does or anything that comes out of his mouth. I know he will go on those sites again even after promising and giving me his word he wont again. I just dont know where to go from here.

I know that it will turn out that he uses it all the time, why would he need to wipe everything clean if there is nothing to see?

You are in denial.

He will lie through his teeth until you prove it.

Do you want to save this marraige?

If so marraige guidance.

If it's basically been a question all along of trying to please him and feeling you are coming up short, then there is a huge power imbalance in the relationship. And a huge dent in your confidence. You are living with a taker, not a giver.

sadnblue, I didn't mean to imply you have made your bed etc, more that it seems as though you are doing everything to try to make him happy, but what about you? What is he doing to make you happy? What do you need to be happy? I would say trust, honesty and a man of his word. His word is no good now.

Has he offered to seek help?

He does nothing to make me happy :( we never go out together (mostly because of work/lack of babysitters. And when he is at home on his days off he sits on his pc all day. I mean ALL day. He does nothing around the house, or with the kids. Although the last 4 weeks hes had no choice as I have been out of action due to the major operation I had. I hate it. As I said above, its more like living with a roommate than a husband.

He is the only guy i have ever been with (and he says im the only girl hes been with but there is things in the past which makes me feel otherwise...), so i have no idea if we are 'normal'. But it doesnt feel normal, know what i mean? Doesnt feel how I imagined love/marriage would feel. We never do anything as a couple. I am the one that goes to him for hugs and attention. He has never once initiated making love. Always me. He tells me 100 times a day he loves me, but they are just words. It feels like an automated response these days :(

What would I need to make me happy? Trust, a bit of spontaneous affection now and again, to feel as an equal.

And he would never seek help, he always lays the blame on me and would never admit to being in the wrong. Not with me or anyone in the world. Just the kinda guy he is.

I think it is very clear that he has issues.

You are going to have to bite the bullet and tell him you either talk about your crappy relationship or you are going to leave him.

You are only young, you could meet someone who gives you the kind of relationship you dream of.

If he is using porn more than you think it will be costing you money that could be spent on time together.

I know you say you don't talk but your life is ticking away whilst you wait for him to become something he isn't.

Don't waste your life.

Thank you.

If I decide to end our marriage, I would be single for the rest of my life. No one would want a 29 year old with 4 kids, who also feels insecure as hell when it comes to porn stuff. Not that i would ever be able to trust a man ever again :(

Typing that out I think has hit home just exactly WHY I havent left yet. I'm scared of being alone for the rest of my life.

You're pretty single right now though.

There's definitely an element of swopping one set of problems for another when you separate or divorce, but I think there's no loneliness worse than loneliness in a relationship and no problems you might encounter outside of a relationship that are capable of sucking the life out of you like marriage problems can.

Actually I know a lot of men who would love a 29 yr old with a ready made family so that they don't have to do the sleepless nights part!

I didn't meet the man I wanted to marry until I was 39!

Of course you are scared but what mathanxiety said is so true about being lonely in a relationship being worse.

You have raised 4 children, that pretty much says that you can do anything!

Sounds like you could do with some happiness

I don't know any man who would want to take on another man's children, let alone 4.