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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Worried by friends relationship - how to reach out to her?

41 replies

WeeBitWorried · 01/05/2011 11:34

Namechanger and I'm posting this on behalf of my friend who is very worried about a mutual friend of ours (I'll call her Sally so it doesn't get confusing). I know that there is (sadly) a wealth of experience on abusive relationships on these boards, and having read enough threads myself I am strongly hearing warning bells on our friends relationship. I'll try to be fairly vague as don't want to out her.

Sally is late twenties, very fiesty, good career, financially sorted. Got involved with her DP about 18 months ago, after she came out of a very long term and stifling relationship. He is from a different (western) country, and she seemed smitten. I'm not 100% sure of the order of events, but at some point along the way he was 'depressed' with his job (not working for the right kind of company apparently) and has quit, moved in with her and is being financially supported by her. He won't find another job unless it's in the 'right' place, but there isn't any in their area so that his how he justifies not working.

Last year Sally and my friend went on a long haul holiday. They were delayed coming back for quite a while because of the snow, and by all account's Sally's DP was not happy. He had himself gone on holiday to an African country, and then contact with him ceased for 4 days. Sally was out of her mind with worry, obviously her holiday was ruined as her days were spent trying to contact him. Eventually contact came, apparently DP had been kidnapped at gunpoint and held hostage in a dark room. After four days they held a gun to his head and said he had to marry their daughter. He said no, so they then let him go and he went back to his hotel. His hotel gave him the rest of his stay for free.

Obviously it sounds very dubious and weird, but Sally was convinced and very concerned and has spent a lot of time since helping him get over his 'trauma'.

This trauma has manifested itself in her DP being very possesive over her going out. Since then she has also developed a 'stalker'. When she is out (for eg with colleagues) she regularly gets abusive messages from an unknown number, purporting to be a girl, telling her she is not good enough for her DP, she is a slag, how dare she do what she is doing, she should keep her legs shut etc etc etc. Sally very scared by this, especially as a lot of the time noone knows where she is except the person she is with. Oh, and her DP.... (sceptical, much?!). Sally is so worried she has informed HR at work she has a stalker.

Recent event which triggered my friend asking me to post this, out for lunch drinks at work, which evolved into afternoon drinking and then early evening, Sally, my friend and a very old work colleague. At 7pm (so not late) Sally's DP texts her 'I'm only going to say this once. Come. Home. Now'. Sally, very apologetic and worried, despite having done nothing wrong, goes home. My friend v worried about her. Next day (and why we aer worried as she is covering for him) Sally says that she had forgotted her DP had been punched in the eye the day before (!) and he wasn't supposed to be home alone because of the trauma of the kidnapping.

My friend has had an abusive relationship herself and can see the signs, so is sick with wory. But we also know unless we tread carefully she could shut herself away from us and stop confiding, she seems to have become so subservient to him/ I've sent my friend the abuser checklist and an article on gaslighting, but really hoped we could get some more advice on here on how we can give her a lightbulb moment. My main worry is that the emotional abuse will soon develop into something physical

Thanks if you got this far, and I know it all sounds a bit crazy and far fetched, which to me makes it all the more worrying...

OP posts:
FabbyChic · 01/05/2011 11:38

She does not have a stalker it is her partner texting her, how else would anyone get her number.

She is mad to believe all he tells her, he is lying manipulating her.

He probably punched himself.

Im not sure what your friend can do, the one in this position has to see for herself what he is doing if she cannot there is no way out.

garlicbutter · 01/05/2011 11:41

Ask her to phone the police and the hotel in the African town where DP was staying.

He sounds like a dangerous crackpot at best, but the kidnap story has a bearing on the rest of it. Could one of you do some checking with her?

garlicbutter · 01/05/2011 11:43

Oh, yes, meant to add: she should report the text harassment to the police. I mean, she should do that under any circumstances (stalkers OFTEN go on to physical harassment). Hopefully the cops will tell her if it turns out to be DP.

WeeBitWorried · 01/05/2011 11:52

Well yes Fabby I think that is quite clear, but for some reason she just doesn't see it herself. Same with the kidnap story, it's quite clearly bollocks, I mean who would accept a free hotel stay after that? Surely you'd be straight to the embassy and then on to the police??

Good point about reporting texts to the police, I'll suggest that.

So you think it's best to be blunt and say 'look we should check the kidnap story out'. She seems so keen to cover for him I'm not sure she'll agree and she will withdraw from us.

I just fail to see how she can honestly not realise that he is making so much stuff up...

OP posts:
WeeBitWorried · 01/05/2011 11:53

Oh garlic jsut to clarify - he didn't report it to the police apparently as they are corrupt, so I guess it's only the hotel that could verify...

OP posts:
garlicbutter · 01/05/2011 12:00

Ok, if she's unwilling to check and he didn't involve the police, that's probably a dead end. Actually I was once mugged at knifepoint in the grounds of my hotel, in the middle of the Amazon. The police refused to file a federal report because of potential damage to the state's nascent tourist industry. The hotel gave me three free nights but then cloned my credit card and took the money anyway! So this shit does happen - it's the conflation of events that makes him look like a nutjob.

So, yes, start with the texts. You can handle those as if you all beleived they were from some random woman. Good luck!

WeeBitWorried · 01/05/2011 12:14

hmmm perhaps I am a bitch for not believing it but it just doesn't ring true. Why would you hold someone for days at gunpoint, and then when they refuse to marry your daughter just say 'oh ok' and let them go? But maybe it is true.

Have suggested to my friend about reporting to the police. I hope she does.

I know it may be a case of leaving her to work it out herself, but it's so hard to see someone going down such an obvious route. Reading the emotional abuse checklist, he ticked the vast majority of boxes :(

OP posts:
atswimtwolengths · 01/05/2011 13:22

a) Why would anyone kidnap him in order to get him to marry someone, without any evidence of his worth?

b) Controlling people learn very early on that to withhold their whereabouts can drive people crazy with worry.

c) The text messages can be sorted really easily with the help of the police. I don't think she should tell him she's telling the police, otherwise I would put my house on him having ten good reasons why she shouldn't.

d) I think he hit himself.

e) He really is making this trauma last, isn't he? It means she has to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

f) It's interesting that the kidnapping/withholding of his whereabouts occurred after she was on holiday with another woman and delayed, too. I don't think he can stand her being with other people.

I don't know what you can do. I don't think she'd believe you if you did find out the kidnapping was a load of bull. (FWIW I think it's more likely he heard about it happening to someone else.) The only hope is the phone. Maybe arrange to see her one day and then say "Let's go to the police now."

WeeBitWorried · 01/05/2011 13:40

The hitting thing is especially worrying as it supposedly happened the evening before the works drinks, she just apparently forgot about it when she was out as he got back late. I'm not sure you would forget that (I wouldn't!) so I'm not sure if there is a black eye at all and she is not just making it up to try and give him a cover. Which to me says she knows things aren't right but doesn't want us to think badly of him.

I agree she shouldn't tell him about it. Good plan about suggesting it immediately when she is with friends and not him. There really couldn't be a valid reason for not doing it, the texts are so awful that even if it is a random woman she is obviously unhinged.

He very obviously can't stand her being with other people. And the problem is, she is obliging him in this and meeting friends less and less.

It's so hard to see someone so outwardly ballsy and confident becoming like this - I can't understand it :(

OP posts:
WeeBitWorried · 01/05/2011 13:41

By 'tell him about it' I mean contacting the police, sorry for disjointed messages!

OP posts:
blondepinhead · 01/05/2011 14:18

Is there any way that you can approach this from another angle, maybe? So, instead of being obviously sceptical about the kidnapping, you could say suggest that it sounds like he needs professional help from a specialist in PTSD on top of the support that Sally has been giving him.

His reaction (which I expect will be negative) to this perfectly reasonable suggestion might give her a lightbulb moment. But there again it may not, and I suppose there's every possibility that he would get angry at her suggestion that he's 'mad' or something like that and then things could escalate. Any person who could invent a stalker to persecute someone they're supposed to love is probably (definitely) highly unpredictable and dangerous :(

DontGoCurly · 01/05/2011 17:52

Oh my God, is she actually that gullible that she believes him? You have to stop going along with it.

How in God's name can she believe all this claptrap? Let me guess he is actually a Prince and Royalty ....etc

Don't keep going along with it. Tell her outright it's a pile of turd. She will be embarassed when the penny drops but it's a lot better than going around the houses pretending to believe him.

HerHissyness · 01/05/2011 18:46

Words fail. He sounds absolutely BARKING. I'd adopt the listing everything down approach and inviting her to look at each and every event in total honesty. In it's entirety. Bit by bit it can be explained away, and this is what she is doing. my God, he must be good in bed

He is absolutely terrorising her, even if she doesn't know it yet.

I was outwardly ballsy and confident once too. Even mine was not as mad as this (that I have found out anyway)

Fast forward 10 years, my DS has a shit dad, at least the shit dad/person is thousands of miles away (could be worse) but I have endured hell and still suffer today with the fall out.

I hate myself for having chosen such a tosser for a father for DS, he deserves so much better, and looking back, so did I. I don't think anyone told me to ditch him, or to be careful, or took me to one side, and perhaps I'd not have listened to them even if they'd had.

Perhaps show her everywhere how no-one else's relationships are like this. Has she tried calling the stalker's number back? What does buggerlugs say about her contacting the police over the stalker? I bet he's told her to leave it.

TBH She needs to go to the police and let them trace it, we all know where it will end up.

flippinada · 01/05/2011 18:49

I'm not surprised you are concerned about your friend, weebitworried.

He sounds very controlling. I think what atswim said is spot on.

There is not much else you can do apart from be there for her and just try to keep her grounded. Let hger know she has people she can rely on - you sound like a good friend :)

WeeBitWorried · 01/05/2011 20:17

HerHissy it's funny you should strike those words out - she's not particularly forthcoming about their relationship, but this is one area that she isn't shy about detailing! I don't think her last relationship was great in that department, I hope that the novelty of actually having a good shag hasn't blinded her to the obvious disturbing behaviour he is exhibiting...

Dontgo it's very easy to say that we should just be harsh and tell her that her DP is talking crap and is a psycho etc etc, but the guy lives with her, and has entrenched himself enough in her life that she is withdrawing and believing this crap. My worry is that being so forthcoming could give him reason to hate us and to tell her that we are jealous/poisoining her against him/any other bullshit he can think of to drive us apart.

I think I'm edging towards the gently approach - not alienating her and letting her know we are there for her, but not actively agreeing with what she says about him. It's a tough one...

OP posts:
HerHissyness · 02/05/2011 00:33

Weebitworried: been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Look what a total car-crash I made of my life, and for what? the only man to ... well you can fill in the dots.

I can tell you now that if I have to spend the rest of my life, never sleeping another living soul for the rest of my life, to never have to go through what I went through with psycho, then that is fine with me.

BTW, abusers/controlling men often use sex to entrap and control. It's in the Why Does He Do That book, where this poor woman's BF is detailed literally on every page.

Gently gently sounds a good ploy, gradually and gently correcting her cover up lies.

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 02/05/2011 01:32

Oh you poor thing, it is horrible to be in such a situation. This man is a dangerous arsehole nd your friend is either completely cockstruck or has absorbed all those poisonous myths about any man being better than not having a man. My beet advice is to keep gently picking apart this knobber's stories, without active criticism so your friend can't fall for the 'all your friends hate me, they are evil feministss, you musnt't see them again' line.

HerHissyness · 02/05/2011 11:07

cockstruck! Fantastic expression! is that one of your patented expressions SGB?

great advice as ever.

WeeBitWorried · 02/05/2011 11:13

Thanks SGB that's the route we are going to take. None of us have ever met him either, he always gets out of any occassion where there has been a chance to. Wonder what he is scared of?

Just a qq - does anyone know if the mobile is a PAYG whether it can still be traced?

OP posts:
FabbyChic · 02/05/2011 11:23

Only if it is registered, lots don't register them.

WeeBitWorried · 02/05/2011 11:31

Bit worried it's going to be a dead end in that case, as I'm pretty sure it will be PAYG specifically bought specifically for that reason.

OP posts:
flippinada · 02/05/2011 11:40

Weebitworried - I have a friend in a very similar situation. Strangely enough, despite the fact they have been together for a year, none of her other friends have met him.

Grin at cockstruck. Very apt.

flippinada · 02/05/2011 12:19

It can't be traced if it's a PAYG. I know of someone getting dodgy messages from her ex using this method - she's been to the police and they're sure its him (he has form and then some) but can't prove it.

Is there anyway she can block the messages? Some phones allow this.

Gay40 · 02/05/2011 12:26

I love that word "cockstruck" and I've never heard it before. It's so apt. We use "fannyblinded" as well.

garlicbutter · 02/05/2011 15:34

Is he African? Just going off on a bit of a "what if" tangent - which has no impact whatsoever on the fact that he appears to be frighteningly dangerous - but I was thinking "what if" he did go back to sort out a traditional marriage, then really did get into trouble over it. He may actually have done the deed if so. I bet that would wake her up.