Please come and talk to me about being considered sexy/being treated like a sex object, and what's OK and what's not?

[BeansOnEggOnToast]

My head's all in a knot over this lately, so please bear with me if my post isn't very coherent.

I'm confused about the difference between being fancied and found physically attractive alongside being respected as a person (which I do want), and feeling like a sex object, as though they see me and see sex - and not a lot else (which I don't want). I'm wondering if I somehow deserve the latter if I look good, and how to achieve the former (instead of the latter) with my partner.

I've experienced the sex object thing, in the extreme, with a guy I had a (very) brief relationship with some time ago. When we spoke on the phone, and I talked about some worries I'd had that day about DS, and he responded by saying he had a raging hard-on and just couldn't help it because talking with me had that effect - I knew it was doomed. I felt cheap; like a sex chat line. It felt horrible.

My ex-partner (DS's dad), with whom I spent my entire twenties, never rated me much in the physical attraction stakes, which felt soul-destroying. So obviously it matters to me to be attractive to a partner - it bothered me when I wasn't. Since separating and finding my feet, I haven't wanted for interest from men, and have realised that, actually, I can't be such a bad catch to look at after all. I've come out of my shell a bit, make a bit more effort with my appearance (absolutely not slutty, BTW) because I've been enjoying feeling attractive ... but this is where I get confused.

The man I'm seeing at the moment - have been since Christmas - is in many ways lovely. I've known him a long time. He's laid back, easy-going, fun, wonderful with his and my children, helpful, etc. And he seems to find me really sexy, and of course it's important that he does. But I feel cheap a fair amount of the time with him. I feel he's looking at me and thinking, "Phwoar!" - to the exclusion of much else. I want him to look at my face more, show an interest in my mind, my thoughts, my feelings, my life - but really, I wonder if he pretty much equates me with sex. A hug will invariably lead to a grope (as will snatched moments when our respective kids aren't around), and pretty quickly on to sex, bypassing a lot of the tender, intimate stuff I enjoy, and which I equate with connecting emotionally. Without all that (or with not enough of that), I feel that it doesn't really matter that it's me, the person; just that I'm a nice enough body for him to get his rocks off in/on/over.

Am I being unreasonable? Is it reasonable to dress nicely and carry yourself well and look fairly attractive and sometimes turn heads, and expect to not be treated like a sex object? I'm not walking around with my (tiny) boobs half-revealed or in a mini skirt, or anything slutty like that, but I suppose I can look quite sexy sometimes, in a tasteful way IYSWIM. Should I then expect to be treated like a sex object? Or is it possible for a decent man to enjoy and respect all the great aspects of a woman, as well as her sexuality?

I feel as though I've gone from one extreme to the other, and would like the middle ground. I wonder if that's asking too much?

YOu aren't asking too much. Sometimes it should be nice to have a cuddle without it leading anywhere, to have a touch without it being sexual and being more affectionate.

Maybe he finds you hot in bed and can't believe his luck.

Do you watch films together and get cuddly? Share the odd kiss that doesn't lead anywhere, or is it that when any touching goes on it leads to full on sex?

Maybe he is just highly sexed and you need to say to him hey wait a minute, can't be just have a cuddle instead.

Stop it from leading to full on sex all the time, and let it lead to some affection and appreciation of you being who you are instead.

I think you just know. If you feel loved, appreciated, respected, and fancied, then it's obvious. If you don't feel that, then the balance is wrong.

You don't need to change how you are ( by the sound of it), but the guys you date, if it is not happening.

"Or is it possible for a decent man to enjoy and respect all the great aspects of a woman, as well as her sexuality?"

Yes. Absolutely. You are NOT asking too much, never think that.

If you feel cheap, something's not right. You should try talking to him first, obviously, but you are not being unreasonable by objecting to this.

Your not being unreasonable , No . His behaviour shouldnt be causing you to feel like your just a body . Have you discussed the fact that hugs lead to gropes , that he bypasses the nice parts of sex and how that makes you feel ?

You really shouldnt be feeling cheap .

Maybe you are reading too much into it! He fancies you rotten, and he obviously likes you for who you are, loves your kids etc, sounds pretty perfect to me.

Have you spoken to him about it? Say to him sometimes you just want a cuddle. Do you enjoy sex with him, when you feel like it?

I think it is a reasonable question to ask. When I was young (and slim and pretty), I felt my attractiveness got me into trouble. It wasn't that however, it's just I did not have the emotional sophistication to go with the looks and I never had any idea of how to handle men. Now I'm older (and fatter and less pretty), I have the wherewithall to deal with attention and men but now get less offers!

I guess the point I try to make in a light hearted manner is people will treat you in the way in which you allow. This, for you, is about understanding what you want and ensuring you manage your men to these boundaries. Your current bloke sounds lovely so you need to have a diplomatic chat and manage the physical side to your relationship differently. (As you both have kids, it may be that he is just being opportunistic - which is not entirely unreasonable in a new relationship!)

Is it reasonable to dress nicely and carry yourself well and look fairly attractive and sometimes turn heads, and expect to not be treated like a sex object?

Yes, this is entirely reasonable.

IME though, the first few months of a relationship, if it has legs, is fairly lust-filled. Things might calm down a lot. In the meantime, what about suggesting more dates out in public - spend time out with the DC and doing cultural stuff together that you enjoy. Get to know each other better outside the bedroom. It's also fine to say you want to slow down on the physical side of things for a while. If he resents it, he's not worth the bother.

ohgawd said it very well.

(though i do wonder about you using the word 'slutty' twice... odd word to use about yourself, even if in the negative, that makes me wonder if you might have some ideas about sex/sexiness being wrong which might explain why you're struggling with these issues?)

and makes a very valid point!

sorry - spelt your name wrong and put the wrong symbols for bold!

I'd say give him a bit longer before bringing it up; you've not been together long so he could just still be going 'PHOWAR!!' and acting like a randy teenager because he's so attracted to you. Or you could always bring it up another way..say you want him to concentrate on making you feel good (again, because you've only been together 5 months, he could be rubbish at making you feel good during sex/without sex as he's trying to impress you or because he doesn't know what you like)

Have you tried fending him off for a week or two? Every now & then DH & I have a 'no sex' week where we do everything but the deed...it makes it more satisfying for both of us when it's over.

As you've said, you're feeling much more attractive so maybe he's just finding this inner-confidence irresistible?

I don't think it's too early in the relationship to address this, on the contrary, I think you should tell him you need him to slow down and pay more attention to your needs.

Don't put up with things that make you uncomfortable, tell him - and if he doesn't make efforts to improve things then he's not right for you. It won't magically improve - and a subject like this won't be easier to broach after more time passes.

Don't settle.

Sex is a part of life and there is nothing inherently wrong in liking sex, thinking about sex, wanting to have sex or having it. However, there is such a thing as being sensitive to other people's feelings - for instance if you are saying to your DP 'I am upset about something that happened at work' his response shouldn't really be ' Oh right, anyway, my cock needs sucking' any more than it should be 'Oh right, anyway, I really fancy some chips/where's my clean shirt/did you know there's a new cheat on Call of Duty?'

Also, if what you are saying is that his idea of sex is him sticking his cock in you and then wiping it on the curtains, then yes, address it now. If sex is all about despunking him as quickly as possible, then it will become less and less appealing to you as time passes, and if you havetold him more than three times that you would prefer something a bit different and he has either taken no notice or promised to change and not done so, bin him as he is demonstrating that he is not bothered about you.As far as he is concerned, any vagina will do to spunk in.

However, him being a knob doesn't make it bad for you to like or want sex and to want to flirt or cop off. Unless your job is (for instance) working in a funeral parlour and you are prancing around flashing your stocking tops at bereaved clients or something.

Its not too early to bring this up , and really regardless of how long youve been together theres no excuse for him to be this inconsiderate , hes not 15 .
Tell him clearly how you feel , and as springchicken says , if you have to tell him 3 times then bin him because hes not listening or caring about what your saying .

Be very clear , and dont listen to him bleating that he cant help it because he finds you so attractive . If shortly after that a hug turns into a grope then count that as twice . Really you shouldnt have to have conversations with adult men about it not being ok to grope you , or it not being ok to try to shag you without making it nice for you .

So glad I found this. I posted on a thread about boundaries re a similar situation I find myself in, where the man I have recently (3 weeks) met has this habit of making crude sexual comments - not flattering or romantic at all!

Once over the phone, in a conversation about chillies that he'd tried, he said he wondered what would have happen if he had "muffed" me right after he'd eaten them! I was so shocked my initial reaction was to laugh! Which I now realise was sending COMPLETELY the wrong signal.

Well, after reading various opinions, I am DEFINITELY going to say something if it happens again.

Other than that, he is a very nice person, but yes, this does need addressing.

Bring it up with him now. His behaviour sounds perfectly reasonable, but if it making you uncomfortable then he needs to know that. Saying something doesn't mean that you're having a go at him, you're just sharing how you feel, which is a pretty good tenet of a relationship.

Me and DW both enjoy the quick, snatched shag just like we both enjoy the long romantic evening that may - or may not - have long romantic sex at the end of it. We also both know that I'd probably be satisfied with lots of the former (though not exclusively) and she would prefer lots of the latter (again, not exclusively). Difference is, we've had 13 years to learn about what the other person needs/wants at any given time (though we're not perfect) wheras you and your DP haven't had that time yet. Talking to him now will be part of developing that understanding.

Oh, and BlueTopaz, we learnt the hard way that pre-coital chillies are a BAD, BAD, BAD idea.

I want a new emoticon < agree with sgb >

bluetopaz, that bloke sounds like a twat

is he very nervous or summat, because talking like that after 3 weeks makes him sound like

a) a horny 14 yo

b) a complete sexist pillock

c) somebody very nervous who says stupid things like a kind of tic

My hard stare would be very much in evidence if somebody talked to me so disrespectfully, and a "take a hike, you nobber" would be soon to follow

BlueTopaz, at three weeks I don't think you do know that "he's a very nice person". He seems nice sometimes, but there is this issue of him talking in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable. Don't shove the two things into separate boxes. He is capable of appearing very nice, he is also capable of appearing crude/demeaning, as far as you're concerned. It's very early days.

If you like him, tell him it bothers you and see if it happens again.

But don't feel obliged to give him chances or lower your standards.

blue totally agree kick that bloke into touch.

FWIW I don't think it's ever too early really to discuss appropriate language etc especially sexual, and the key thing is to know how you feel and what you want. I went through a long time thinking the only way to fel close to someone is through sex (learnt from my XH & various other abusive realtionships but anyhow)

point is NO man gets to make you feel cheap cos if you do then something's not right - tbh your self esteem deserves much better than that. Outside the bedroom he should respect you like a lady, inside however it's up to you how you want to act the 2 can go hand in hand but only when there is balance from a loving relationship.

Wow. Thanks for all the posts. And sorry I've taken so long to reply/update.

OK, so your feedback suggests that he could be behaving OK, or not - that it's subjective, and down to how I feel really.

Hmm.

I've since raised my worries with him - although (not ideally) via text and email. (I don't think it helps us that we have so little time to spend together without children around - he has his kids half the time, and I have my son most of the time. So we tend to have less-than-ideal communication options at our disposal.) And - not ideal - I lost my cool a bit; got a bit ranty. In short, he knew I was unhappy and needed to talk. I said this.

He came over late Saturday night (11 p.m.). I was on the phone when he arrived and he came in and hugged me ... and stroked me ... and then we ended up having some (really very nice) sex. And he fell asleep. And when I woke up in the morning, he was gone. I felt that I shouldn't have had sex with him (although it was enjoyable, and in the moment, I wanted to do it), because it was without an opportunity to connect beyond the bedroom; to talk through some of the stuff that had been bothering me. I felt cheap again.

I've seen him once since, for about half-an-hour - he came over to fix something in DS's room (while DS was in the house). When I said as he left that we need some time to talk, he asked why didn't I talk to him while he was doing the fixing? Well, DS was at home, and I suppose that would feel to me like he's not really taking me very seriously - respecting what I have to say - if he expects me to talk about this stuff while he's distracted doing a DIY job.

So I've emailed him since. Said everything I want to say - what's bothering me, how I've felt, and what has to be present for me (respect, intimacy other than sex, time and interest, etc) and what I won't put up with.

We've since chatted a bit about it. Disappointingly, he hasn't been horrified that the way he behaves has left me feeling cheap. Not a great sign. He has said I need to talk to him more about things that are bothering me ... but he's never available! How can I talk with him if he leaves at 07:00 on a Sunday morning?! He barely texts or emails while we're apart - he's so busy with work and his young kids. I understand this - but it doesn't make my needs go away; I need to feel at least a bit important to him, otherwise what's the point?

His response to the all-about-sex thing is that this is how he ends up feeling close. He says after we've had sex, he feels really close to me and carries those feelings off with him to linger while he gets on with other stuff ... meanwhile I'm left behind feeling cheap and used; as though I could have been pretty much any attractive enough woman, because my mind hasn't really been engaged with at all. I don't get this; I thought all healthy adults need and enjoy affection other than sex, and the closeness that comes from talking and pottering and laughing and listening and cuddling with someone special? He seems to be able to manage without all that most of the time; to literally not see me for days, turn up for a shag, and bugger off again for more days at a time.

I like him. He's cheeky and sexy and fundamentally a good guy. But emotionally/intimacy-wise, I feel pretty deserted.

Someone asked if I have a problem with sex being dirty - or something like that. Can't quite remember (sorry - it's late). I don't think I do. I've always thought I have a healthy attitude to sex: I enjoy it, and I'm enjoying being perceived as sexy - something I never felt in my twenties. So I don't think it's wrong. But I feel uncomfortable if I'm perceived only in a sexual way, a lot of the time; I feel cheap. I thought that was pretty healthy, really - but maybe I need to lighten up?

Thank you all again for your posts. It's been helpful to read them and reflect.

he turns up for a shag and then fucks off at 7am on a Sunday morning ?

where does he go ?

I wouldn't tolerate that, sorry, I don't blame you for feeling used

I don't think this fuckbuddy relationship appears to be working for you, tbh, although it certainly seems to be working for him

OK, having read your update I think it's a matter of the two of you wanting different things. He's not a bad man, but he is on the selfish side: he wants to have sex with you and then mentally 'put you in a box' till the next time, and he's not bothered enough that this isn't what you want.
This is probably because it's all he has to offer.
OK please ignore any advice you get along the lines of 'this is because men want sex and women want love' as that is utter bullshit. Some people prefer (and in some cases will only engage in) sex with a person they believe loves them. Other people are happy to have sex with anyone who is attractive and pleasant, but are not looking for a deep emotional connection. There is nothing at all wrong with being either of these two types of people, but if you are type A and you are seeing a type B (or vice versa) it's not going to last that long and one of you is going to end up hurt, or exasperated. To put it even more bluntly, you want a relationship, he wants a fuckbuddy. I don't think it's going to work out longterm between the two of you.

Thanks AnyFucker and SGB. Good points.

AnyFucker, he worked all weekend - doing jobs for friends and family to earn a bit of extra income. I just wasn't expecting him to leave so early. I felt a bit emotionally abandoned. Which lead's me on to SBG's points ...

Makes perfect sense. I do feel that I'd like a relationship. I'm further (way further) down the line after my split from DS's dad, and realised maybe six months ago (three years on from separating) that, having played the field for a few years, I wanted something more meaningful.

Where it gets confusing is that DP says he has feelings for me; wants to make a go of things. He tells me he misses me. He has told me he loves me (I haven't said as much to him - not sure I feel it yet). So, when we're together long enough to have a bit of a chat, the things he says are akin to wanting this to work as a relationship - maybe even more than I do. But his actions seem incongruent with what he says.

I wonder if he is just really, really straightforward and non-needy - as in, he has sex, he feels emotionally fulfilled, he goes off for a couple of days on a bit of a high and doesn't think to check in with me in the meantime. I'm not like that. And I would say that's a bit selfish too. Hopefully, I'm not too needy (I don't think I am). But I do expect to be in touch a bit when we can't meet; to show an interest in each other, be a bit thoughtful, ask how the other's getting on, etc. Otherwise, what's the point?

When I see him next - maybe tomorrow night, or early next week/in 10 days' time - I'll put the relationship-versus-fuckbuddy idea to him. I wonder if he might want a relationship, but only be capable - time- and energy-wise - of a fuckbuddy set-up at this point in time. A very good point. Thanks.

P.S. Yes, I do feel hurt and exasperated!