Please come and talk to me about being considered sexy/being treated like a sex object, and what's OK and what's not?

[BeansOnEggOnToast]

My head's all in a knot over this lately, so please bear with me if my post isn't very coherent.

I'm confused about the difference between being fancied and found physically attractive alongside being respected as a person (which I do want), and feeling like a sex object, as though they see me and see sex - and not a lot else (which I don't want). I'm wondering if I somehow deserve the latter if I look good, and how to achieve the former (instead of the latter) with my partner.

I've experienced the sex object thing, in the extreme, with a guy I had a (very) brief relationship with some time ago. When we spoke on the phone, and I talked about some worries I'd had that day about DS, and he responded by saying he had a raging hard-on and just couldn't help it because talking with me had that effect - I knew it was doomed. I felt cheap; like a sex chat line. It felt horrible.

My ex-partner (DS's dad), with whom I spent my entire twenties, never rated me much in the physical attraction stakes, which felt soul-destroying. So obviously it matters to me to be attractive to a partner - it bothered me when I wasn't. Since separating and finding my feet, I haven't wanted for interest from men, and have realised that, actually, I can't be such a bad catch to look at after all. I've come out of my shell a bit, make a bit more effort with my appearance (absolutely not slutty, BTW) because I've been enjoying feeling attractive ... but this is where I get confused.

The man I'm seeing at the moment - have been since Christmas - is in many ways lovely. I've known him a long time. He's laid back, easy-going, fun, wonderful with his and my children, helpful, etc. And he seems to find me really sexy, and of course it's important that he does. But I feel cheap a fair amount of the time with him. I feel he's looking at me and thinking, "Phwoar!" - to the exclusion of much else. I want him to look at my face more, show an interest in my mind, my thoughts, my feelings, my life - but really, I wonder if he pretty much equates me with sex. A hug will invariably lead to a grope (as will snatched moments when our respective kids aren't around), and pretty quickly on to sex, bypassing a lot of the tender, intimate stuff I enjoy, and which I equate with connecting emotionally. Without all that (or with not enough of that), I feel that it doesn't really matter that it's me, the person; just that I'm a nice enough body for him to get his rocks off in/on/over.

Am I being unreasonable? Is it reasonable to dress nicely and carry yourself well and look fairly attractive and sometimes turn heads, and expect to not be treated like a sex object? I'm not walking around with my (tiny) boobs half-revealed or in a mini skirt, or anything slutty like that, but I suppose I can look quite sexy sometimes, in a tasteful way IYSWIM. Should I then expect to be treated like a sex object? Or is it possible for a decent man to enjoy and respect all the great aspects of a woman, as well as her sexuality?

I feel as though I've gone from one extreme to the other, and would like the middle ground. I wonder if that's asking too much?

I don't think you need to lighten up: he doesn't want to give you his time or much emotional energy.

The fact he's not worried that you're feeling low & cheapened indicates he won't make efforts to change the way things are, because he's just not that bothered. Sorry.

I don't think he's a keeper.

I think a proper talk with him is a good idea - as I say, I don't think he's a bad person, just a bit thoughtless. Eg he may be saying that he loves you, not so much because he really feels that he does love you, but because he thinks that's what you want to hear. It's more than likely not so much that he's saying it so he can have sex with you, more that he thinks it will please you to hear that and he likes you and doesn't want to make you unhappy - but doesn't understand that you might experience this as him lying to you. I get the impression that he's not the type to analyse emotions or worry about them very much.
The reason I know this isn't a 'man' thinkg is because I am of a similar mindset to him - uninterested in deep emotional connections with people I have sex with. However, I am old enough to know that it's a lot kinder to make it clear to someone that love and commitment are not on offer and to kindly but firmly refuse to keep on shagging someone who wants them from me, just so I can get a shag.

good luck, OP

try to have the strength to walk away from him if the penny drops you are always going to want different things, or that he just isn't going to be able to give you what you want (much like sgb said)

Hmm. Having read your longer post, I'm inclined to agree with SGB. And also agree with AnyFucker about the buggering off in the morning - definitely not on.

It could well be that he is getting all the emotional fulfillment he needs from sex, but there does need to be an acknowledgement that it is a relationship and as such, both people need to be fulfilled. I guess you'll see how he responds to you explaining how you feel and this should give you a better idea of where you stand. The other given is that the longer your relationship goes on, the more likely it is that there will come a time when it will need a greater emotional investment than just sex. Hopefully he will be able to provide you with that.

Wouldn't worry too much about the DIY thing - some people find these types of conversations intimidating, and it could just be a manifestation of that (this doesn't mean that you shouldn't say to him that you feel you need his full attention for these chats though, and he should respect that).

One other thought - could a lot of this be simply a symptom of the challenges facing your relationship: little time together, and the time you do have is often with the DCs? So many relationships are partly built on what I might call 'nothing time'. Just being together, not doing anything in particular but sharing the same space. Sounds like your set up really isn't ideal on this front (doesn't sound like this is either of your faults, obviously) and that could be behind lots of these difficulties?

Either way, hope everything goes well and good luck.

I would agree with SGB.
It really boils down to what you are comfortable with. If you are comfortable it is OK, you you are not it isn't-and you don't need to worry about what others think-go with gut feeling.

also concur with SGB, I don't think long term this will work for you, if this is how he sees intimacy etc, it's very far wide of the mark you see intim acy as which tbh is where every long term relationship needs to be starting off quite close together with. Otherwise I think you'll resent him.

not surprised you felt cheap - tbh I would to. casual meaningless sex is fine if it's what you want, but I don't think it is.

personally I have never been able to do the whole FB's/1 night stands etc as they make me feel cheap so chose not to do them. But really think you need a chat with him, and don't settle if it's not what you really want, perhaps he might be better as a best friend?

Thanks ever so much for further posts.

SGB, I wonder if he is the sort not to really go there emotionally - not to need that emotional connection. Or rather, he says he derives it from sex and can then happily bugger off 'nourished' - as you say, it isn't wrong, but it doesn't work with me and where I'm at.

I've since put the relationship-versus-f*ck-buddy idea to him (again, via email - no opportunity to meet or chat at all this week). All he has responded with is, "Some good questions." That's it. That was last night. Nothing else - nothing today. Not, "Oh, sorry you've been feeling undervalued/cheapened/whatever - after all, I said I wanted to be in a relationship with you and give it a real go, and so of course you've had expectations for a bit of contact and for me to show an interest beyond sex." Nah, nothing like that. Completely nothing, actually.

Last night, we tried to meet to talk about all this. He texted to ask if he could come over and stay the night. I said, well, yes, in the spare room (DS was here), and that I didn't want him to just rock up, have sex, sleep and then leave early - that it didn't feel good for me. He then said, oh well, it's late so maybe another time. I then asked him if, had I texted and said, yeah, come on over, I'm really horny and up for it - would he have come over after all? He said he would have.

My gut feeling is that that says it all: his cock being serviced comes above all else - including my feelings. He wouldn't come just to see me - to be with me; only if sex was a given. Am I overreacting or being a bit precious to find that just completely crappy? (And I mean in the context of this supposed to be being a relationship.)

It's so frustrating, because we've always got on well as friends, and I rather fear will have to stop sleeping together/expecting anything relationship-esque from this, because of how I keep ending up feeling - and I'm just worried that we've scuppered our friendship now. Dunno.

Anyway, thanks again for your input. It's a real help. I think I'm a nice person. I have a lot to give to a relationship. I just seem to gravitate towards the not-so-good-for-me contenders, and not be able to spot this until a way down the line. Sigh.

It does sound like you are looking for much much more from him than he is able and or/wants to give at the moment. No point in trying to change him. He's not just using you for sex if he comes around to fix something in your DS's room surely? He's perhaps not one of life's talkers or very empathic about sex without lots of reassurance making you feel cheap so he tries to show he cares by doing something practical that he is good at? On the other hand, he doesn't want to come around to sleep in the spare room - not great for you wanting to be wanted as a whole person but at least he isn't coming around and pressurising you once he is there. He is a person who wants sex and he is honest about it.

I do think your attitude to sex sounds a little confused to be honest. On the one hand you say you have a healthy, open attitude to sex but on the other it seems to make you feel cheap to have sex in certain situations and you talk of people in mini skirts and low cut tops as slutty. It sounds like a female version of the Madonna/Whore attitude.

Thanks for posting Eurostar, and for your perspective.

I panicked a bit when I got my head round the implications of the Madonna/Whore attitude. I hope I'm not like that. I do enjoy sex. I like feeling sexy and desired. But when I am in a relationship (that is what this man and I agreed we were trying to make work here - not something casual, but trying to be a loving couple I guess), I have a problem with being treated as a f*ck buddy. I can do (and have done) the friends-with-benefits thing with other men, at other times, and not had an issue with it. But this is different: when you decide you're giving it a go as a couple, it becomes about more than the sex, doesn't it? Or at least, I have expected it to become more emotionally intimate - and I think reasonably so. It's the fact that, despite this context, I am still being treated like a friend-with-benefits - who's worth seeing/communicating with for sex, but not for much else - this is what I feel uncomfortable about.

Surely you can't say you want to be with someone - want to make a go of it with someone - and then not communicate with them for days on end, and then expect to turn up late for sex and then disappear off again and go quiet for days again ... without expecting them to feel at least a bit dejected and cheapened?!

Oh, I don't know. Maybe I am expecting too much, although the consensus earlier in the thread was that I shouldn't lower my standards.

No, don't settle for less than you want. He has made it very clear that what you are getting from him at the moment is all that is on offer. If that isn't enough for you, don't grit your teeth and tell yourself that half a pint is better than no beer. You will end up hating each other and doing nothing but row.
He is being a bit of a wuss for not telling you firmly but kindly that what you see is what you get with him rather than fannying around the questions you asked, though it is fair to say that some people really don't do emotional conversations - and TBH he is being a bit selfish to continue having sex or at least hoping for sex with you when you have made it clear you want more than he is willing or able to give.

Thanks, SGB.

I don't think you're over-reacting or being precious: all he wanted was a shag. He made that crystal clear by not coming when you said sex wasn't on the agenda.

Was he wanting to take you out, was he wanting to spend time talking with you and having a laugh, offering to cook you a meal, bring a takeaway, watch a movie? It doesn't sound like it, sounds like he just wanted to turn up at bedtime.

You've only been together a matter of months. You should still be in the honeymoon period where you're showing the best of yourselves to each other and having lots of fun (and sex). But he's not bothered & he's made it clear through his actions what he wants.

You want more than sex on tap from a relationship, so he's not your guy.