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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Boundaries / Deal-Breakers : What are yours?

37 replies

PeeledOff · 24/04/2011 19:33

I have recently come out of a relationship with the father of my DS. We split because he always maintained he 'couldn't' pay half of bills (we both work) and was always 'too busy working' to spend much time as a family, yet managed to go away fishing etc regularly. I don't know why i put up with it for so many years, he just kept promising that 'soon work will be better and i'll be able to pay' or 'I need my time away and if you would stop nagging I would want to spend time / If you want me to pay for house I'll have to work even more so no family time'. Like I said, I don't know why I didn't acknowledge these as deal-breakers ages ago. It was actually him who left as our arguments about it were getting insane.
A similar thing happened in my previous relationship - although no DC , he was a semi-functioning alcoholic and had poor hygiene.

I am now out of the fog enough to look into counselling as it's been 6 months since the split.

I think my problem is that I have never my whole life felt able to define boundaries of what I will and won't put up with, in a romantic relationship anyway - i can at work and in other relationship - I know when something makes me feel sad, but I don't know when to 'give up' it seems.

I'm a very "black and white" person and I like to write things down. have them set in stone etc so I was thinking of compiling some kind of 'list' of what I
a) minimum I need
b) what I will not put up with

for the future. I think it may help until i get my own 'inbuilt' sense of boundaries hopefully with help from counsellor.

Soooo ... tell me your boundaries/ deal-breakers , for inspiration?

OP posts:
millie30 · 24/04/2011 20:04

My deal breaker was when I thought his abuse would harm by DS. I'd put up with a lot from him, he'd worn me down before and during my pregnancy. But when he grabbed my month old baby from my arms and blocked himself in the doorway with his back to me so I couldn't see or reach him, and he was screaming and ranting that I didn't need him now I'd got the "fucking baby" something inside me just clicked. Prior to that he'd mainly shown indifference to the baby, but this was open hostility.

So I apologised and grovelled and reassured him that he was right about everything, to the point where he calmed down enough to go to visit his friend as he had planned. He took the landline phone with him, as well as the computer monitor (he always did this so I couldn't use them to communicate with anyone) and left, knowing I had no credit on my mobile (I also wasn't allowed any money and hadn't handled any cash for over a year.) Once he was gone I dialled 999 as it was the only way I could speak to someone for free, and they came and took me and DS to a refuge.

I have no idea why that particular day was the deal breaker, or straw that broke the camel's back, but I think my maternal instincts just kicked in and overrode everything else. I'm actually glad he did what he did that day, or I may not have found the impetus to get out.

PeeledOff · 24/04/2011 20:11

Wow that sounds really bad, glad you are out. Thanks for your story, I am taking comfort in my DC at the moment and the eldest is good company.
I hope to have a healthy relationship one day but I don't think my head is in the right place for it just now.

I agree with you that no matter what someone did to me, if they hurt my DC I'd see them in a totally different light. I need to work on feeling that way about myself too.

OP posts:
millie30 · 24/04/2011 20:22

Yes, it's strange, my ex could do what he wanted to me, but not my DS. I think it's because I didn't value myself but I've been working on that!

I definitely think you're right to have a break from relationships, I've been single nearly 3 years now just focusing on DS and rebuilding my life. It's also good that you've recognised unacceptable behaviour from your ex, so hopefully if you do meet anyone new you will have those boundaries in place and not put up with it in the future.

davidtennantsmistress · 24/04/2011 20:32

hurting DS - i've always maintained that XH (abusive) and anyone else can do what they like to me but come near my boy and it's a no brainer.

others include:-

has to pull their weight (not just money wise, but in the house with chores/emotionally etc etc)
to work or at least have a sense of direction and ambition.
to want to be a better person/provide better for their family.
(I know the last one sounds a bit snobby/uppety but prior to DP I spent about 10 months with a bloke who was happy to bum about at his mothers house, & then moaned at me about her/when I said I couldn't support him/he wasn't going to be moving into my house. so for me it's a deal breaker if they're happy to be like that. )
erm not being prepared to treat me as a full equal, not being prepared to accept that DS/any other children will always be my number one & i'd drop everything if they needed me.
trust is a huge things for me as well - once it's gone I wouldn't try to get it back, so open & honest is what I value.
cheating/drugs etc would also be no go's.

God have quite a list Blush

PeeledOff · 24/04/2011 21:10

Thanks so much DTM, that was very very helpful (-:

The break-up still hurts every day, I am just trying to get on with things and do have some supportive friends. I have quite a stressful job and now all the shopping and housework and finances to myself so kept busy but just feel really down/depressed, like I'm just going through the motions and sort of disconnected, and cry a lot. I do still enjoy doing the things I like to do and the things which make me happy, but with a twinge of sadness, iyswim. I feel I'm less able to cope with life's ups and downs now without him and feel really vulnerable still.

Am I supposed to be feeling like this months later? Sad

OP posts:
davidtennantsmistress · 24/04/2011 21:16

yes you are. i'd go so far to say even though I dated other men, it wasn't until I met DP a year ago (after 3 years of splitting from XH) that I was fully over things, & on an even keel again.

remember you need to grieve for the future you should have/could have had - the idea that one goes into a relationship & has a baby knowing it will end badly isn't right - we all go into it, (even if there's warning signs) thinking it will be the happy ever after forever. Think about your lovely DS, and making a good life for you two.

also remember our kids sometimes can be pains in the butts, but mostly - or at least ime DS literally saved me from sinking, your DS needs you, but you need him just as much, so when you do feel up & down (which you will do and it's normal honest) look at him and then see what an amazing little person you have there.

(ps' also means that you can mould your little DS into respecting women & being a very nice young man - always a plus. :)

PeeledOff · 24/04/2011 21:41

Thanks (-: Right now I don't feel I could look at another man, although I do get offers lol. I do see the bad sides of exP , and even HIS OWN MUM said when we split that "he is not good husband or father material" Shock. He hated responsibility, would be kind and generous etc but only on his own terms - HE DIDN'T LIKE BEING ASKED. and although he wasn't a nasty person as such, he was rather selfish and really felt 'pressured' if I asked him for things any normal couple would share - he's say I was stressing him and get irritated or walk out. He does see DS regularly and is always on time etc so not so bad in that respect, although he has little patience with him. I feel I also acted badly and somewhat crazily in the process of trying to get him to take responsibility - I used to go on and on for literally hours, repeating, and get exasperated and crazy at him, threaten to leave and throw him out a lot, harass him when he was at work with phonecalls all the time, make sarcastic comments etc - all of this borne out of extreme resentment for him putting the default of every household thing on me, and him as a 'helper' , and also as I felt so rejected that he did not want to spend much time with me at all except from the first year we were together. He was/is capable of change, as he did change a few major things "for me" and that is what makes me think 'what if....' what if he could have changed the reluctance to contribute financially, and spent more time? Maybe we were both just worn out from arguing and he could not give anymore? Maybe if I'd have stayed calm and asked for what I needed without drama we could have worked it out (as years ago when I once left him for something major, he changed and never repeated it again). Maybe I could have 'forced change' better. All of these thoughts STILL go through my head on a daily basis. argghhhh! He is now living at his mums and we see each other only at handovers, he does not seem to want to speak to me but does look a little sad about me (iyswim) sometimes at handovers. Think he is trying to move on, but I can't seem to get out of this 'what if...' I'm really scared to talking to him as i feel it is pointless and telling him how I feel would probably only hurt me as he does not want me anymore - I'd feel pathetic.

Phew. sorry that was a novel! Never actually wrote down the reasons for the split I guess. No need to read through all that rambling haha.

OP posts:
davidtennantsmistress · 25/04/2011 09:13

tbh the what if's will eat you up if you allow them to, and I think with any breakdown (even my own) accepting your part of the responsibility does help with the healing & grieving process (obviously in extream abusive circ's this doesn't always apply but for the most part). You will eventually become quite philosophical about it.

perhaps if you're both still unhappy and things are early on then relate might be an option - jointly or individually? it's still very early days for you both, I don't think it always goes hand in hand if I didn't nag/shout/carry on as such then we'd be happy - mostly that behavior as you said is down to resentment - a resentment that will still be there if things had carried on - and tbh that's not a good environment for a child to grow up in. Sometimes it's better to co parent in harmony as friends than it is to be a couple living with the resentment. it's a very big adjustment. if you're certain that he's moved on & no longer wanting a relationship, it is harsh and hard & god knows the eye watering realisation is heart breaking, but sometimes we need to go through this to see the other side - sort of like an order of events. Just don't do as my XH did/does - we fall out & he stops talking to DS, very unfair.

you'll get there, take it one day at a time. How old is DS?

FreudianSlipper · 25/04/2011 11:36

carry on with your counselling and getting to understand yourself better, once you do you will start to value your needs more.

the relationship you should be working in now is the one with yourself it is so important but we tend to overlook it. invest time in yourself being on your own is not a terrible thing and once you get to a point at being happy with that knowing what you want and will accept in a relationship seems much clearer.

i have always been in crap relationships, now i have my ds my priorities have totally changed, of course he comes first but i have had to look at myself and why i always get into the same or very similar situations, i am not taking away any blame for abuse that went on though

i feel confident and happy that i do not have a man in my life and its a very freeing feeling. yes i would liek a good relationship and believe it will happen i just do not focus on it now

garlicbutter · 25/04/2011 11:54

I know what you mean! During therapy and Mumsnet, I've realised I hardly had any boundaries at all - in fact, I hadn't heard the term before I started therapy. Your counselling will probably challenge your balck-and-white thinking, so try not to get too attached to the idea just now :)

Things I have put up with and/or refused to see, and no longer countenance:
secrecy
rage
dishonesty
women's work
put-downs, even in jest
being told what I think and feel
rudeness to others
contempt for the law
self-aggrandisement
lack of compassion

Not sure where "excessive fishing" fits in there, but I bet it does Grin

tvoffnowplease · 25/04/2011 12:02

Yes, excessive fishing would be a deal breaker for me too Grin

Basically treating me like anything other than the way I would treat my best friend is a deal breaker for me; lying, cheating, deceit in any form, cruelty to any other woman or child (including going to strip clubs) paying for drink/drugs/anything recreational before covering the basics that we need as a family, stealing, laziness (for longer than a sunday!) wearing too much beige, not remembering to thank me and appreciate me... umm... I think that's it.

Set your standards high.. I'm shocked that some women say their deal breaker is if they were hit, or their children were hit... that is way to low an expectation.

You should look for a man who treats you the way you would want your daughter to be treated.

garlicbutter · 25/04/2011 12:12

wearing too much beige Grin Grin

tvoffnowplease · 25/04/2011 12:36

Come on.. it's abuse on the soul!

davidtennantsmistress · 25/04/2011 18:13

totally agree tv - when I was down before and had split up with the edgit who still lived with his mum, he said i'd dragged him down?!!? anyhow, upset I went to an aunts house she slapped me silly (not physically) and said..... you NEVER lower your standards for anyone, you aim for the sky and if they're worth it they'll help you get there and come up to your standards but never settle for second best and never lower yourself.

tvoffnowplease · 25/04/2011 20:18

Wise aunt!

sixthsense · 25/04/2011 20:25

Infidelity
Abuse of any sort
Beige shoes
Tank tops

sixthsense · 25/04/2011 20:26

oh yes and any man that calls trousers "slacks"

PeeledOff · 25/04/2011 23:29

DS is 2 , I also have a DD who is 10 from a previous relationship.
Thanks for all your words of wisdom. You are exactly right, if we ever did get back together then the resentment would still be there, as he never thought he was wrong at all when he would 'forget' to pay his share of bills etc. He just acted as if he was so hard done by all the time. I got tired of having to nag and cajole and argue to get even the tinest iota of a "normal" relationship, then it would probably just revert again in a week or so. Got so tiring. I think the 'what-if's' are coming from me thinking that he would make a good casual boyfriend (as in no living together or children or responsibility) - it may sound weird but he is not actually a bad person I don't think, just cannot or will not deal with being put in a position of responsibility. I sometimes wish we'd just stayed as 'dating' .
Oh i don't know! I ruminate over it frequently. He does say he misses me sometimes but I know it's not enough. he won't go to counselling and he does not indicate in any way he wants to come back. We speak briefly on the phone about DS and what I'm having for dinner etc, the weather, boring things really.

"paying for drink/drugs/anything recreational before covering the basics that we need as a family" - This one really stuck out at me as something I have allowed in both my previous bad relationships. Grin at too much beige!

OP posts:
tvoffnowplease · 26/04/2011 07:49

peeledoff No! Not as a casual boyfriend! Let go, damn it. If you waste your energy having this twerp as a casual boyfriend how will any of the good ones get close?

I know it's hard at first to be on your own, and if you hav a warm body close at hand then it's also easy to convince yourself that you will use him as a casual partner but this will not be the case at all - and you know it.

Sack him off, move on.

Get yourse;f out there, get online (mysinglefriend is good) realise there are people who put their family first!

davidtennantsmistress · 26/04/2011 07:59

agree with tv, totally sack him off, don't even talk boring weather stuff - I can do now with XH & his brother/family etc however initially when he tried to he used it as a way to mess with my head a little bit more, so until you're over him & strong just talk about DS only.

also...

"paying for drink/drugs/anything recreational before covering the basics that we need as a family"

XH would get all the gadgets going and leave us so I had to juggle the food budget big time to even allow for food (plus cancel half the DD's to make sure we had that little for food) DP on the other hand has to be hounded to buy himself a few new pairs of pants as his are thread bear as he thinks me & the kids come first - the order is bills incl food, the kids, me any activities the kids/I want to do then him. so men like that do exist. (fwiw I usually the same him before me so he doesn't miss out)

tvoffnowplease · 26/04/2011 09:18

Exactly DavidT, My dp and I are more likely to argue because the other isn't spending enough on themself! Not too much - that's a respectful and loving relationship.

Diggs · 26/04/2011 09:55

Peeled i too have never been good with boundarys leading to a abusive marriage and horrible divorce . I had no idea what was and wasnt ok and even when i did i felt wrong and guilty for saying something about it . Id also constantly ask freinds "Is it me ect ect " , as i was so unsure of myself i wasnt even sure it was ok for me to feel a certain way !!

I had counselling via womens aid which was brilliant and really made me see things differantly . She quickly established that i did not have a problem recognising boundrys on behalf of my dcs , i knew straight away that a boundry was crossed and i would act accordingly . I also didnt have a problem with freinds or strangers , it was just romantic relationships.

We obviously talked about boundrys in length and i still struggled . She said that because of my upbringing / societys veiws ect i had conformed to the idea that romantic partners have special rights and priveledges . I couldnt have agreed more . She said that most people have a ruler , or some sort of inner standard to measure against , but that mine was faulty , so that when i was unsure , to toss my own " ruler " away , and to use the dcs ruler . If it wasnt ok for someone to do it to them , it wasnt ok to do it to me .

She also stressed that if i wouldnt put up with it from a freind , i shouldnt put up with it from a man and the expectation should be exactly the same . I should add that although i say ive been no good with boundrys , i have always recognized a violation , ive always known it was wrong , but have struggled to verbalize that , to stand up for myself . When i have , i have often allowed others to argue about it or tell me im being ridiculous or to emotionally manipulate me into feeling bad for bringing it up .

The counseller stressed to me the importance of acknowleding immediateley that you dont like a certain behaviour , and how to do that in a non confrontational way , just making it clear . She said that if you have to do this three times to come away and call it quits , that particular person clearly doesnt hear you and has a problem respecting boundrys . The three rule i have struggled with sometimes , and on occasion i have felt that i was being harsh or petty .

Ie , i was dating someone , i liked him , he was fun and nice ect , but he would often tickle me . It sounds harmless , but i dont like it and i find it painfull and a form of torture , i told him this clearly yet still he would do it occasionally . Luckily i was still seeing counseller and explained that i felt petty and silly binning him on this basis . She had a differant veiw , that he had ignored my feelings on more than 3 differant occasions , he had felt it his right to do something to my body despite the fact i didnt like it .

I felt bad about this and wondered if i had been fair , and that perhaps i should have stressed it was a deal breaker , she said No , no doubt he would have stopped but then have done something else , did i want to be with someone who has to be told how to behave ? Theres also the social side of this i find difficult , some people dont get it and activeley encourage you to tolerate bad behaviour , after all theyre " just men and there like that " , ive been told im picky , that i was ridiculous to dump tickle guy ect ect .

I do find it hard to ignore these sort of comments , but then again , these sort of comments and pressure are part of the reason i got here in the first place.

garlicbutter · 26/04/2011 10:01

What a great post, Diggs :)

You've just reminded me of my mum, who tells me I'm too choosy. Now I say, "In your view, yes, Mum! But, in mine, you're too desperate ... so let's leave it there, eh?"
Works Wink

davidtennantsmistress · 26/04/2011 18:18

:o GB I just laughed out loud at that first time ever for MN and me I think - how do you get away with saying that to your mum?!?

FlamingJamie · 26/04/2011 18:27

My list is the same as garlicbutter's.

Diggs - your post is so interesting. Although I have never experienced seriously bad behaviour, I do have a problem asserting myself. I really think it's such an important life-skill. Recognising our own feelings and then expressing them. Coming on MN has helped me in this respect.