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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Boundaries / Deal-Breakers : What are yours?

37 replies

PeeledOff · 24/04/2011 19:33

I have recently come out of a relationship with the father of my DS. We split because he always maintained he 'couldn't' pay half of bills (we both work) and was always 'too busy working' to spend much time as a family, yet managed to go away fishing etc regularly. I don't know why i put up with it for so many years, he just kept promising that 'soon work will be better and i'll be able to pay' or 'I need my time away and if you would stop nagging I would want to spend time / If you want me to pay for house I'll have to work even more so no family time'. Like I said, I don't know why I didn't acknowledge these as deal-breakers ages ago. It was actually him who left as our arguments about it were getting insane.
A similar thing happened in my previous relationship - although no DC , he was a semi-functioning alcoholic and had poor hygiene.

I am now out of the fog enough to look into counselling as it's been 6 months since the split.

I think my problem is that I have never my whole life felt able to define boundaries of what I will and won't put up with, in a romantic relationship anyway - i can at work and in other relationship - I know when something makes me feel sad, but I don't know when to 'give up' it seems.

I'm a very "black and white" person and I like to write things down. have them set in stone etc so I was thinking of compiling some kind of 'list' of what I
a) minimum I need
b) what I will not put up with

for the future. I think it may help until i get my own 'inbuilt' sense of boundaries hopefully with help from counsellor.

Soooo ... tell me your boundaries/ deal-breakers , for inspiration?

OP posts:
PeeledOff · 26/04/2011 18:42

Thanks you so much for that insight Diggs. (-:

Don't worry, I'm not going to go back to him anyway, I know it would be a mistake. I meant I sometimes wonder how things would have went if we had never decided to move in or have a child, as I don't think he is a BAD person, in that sense of the word, he is just selfish to a fault. He was brought up that way (doting mother, would inconvenience herself for EVERYTHING he wanted), massive sense of entitlement. He is friendly and funny etc, but just refuses any responsibility and has a tendency to think only for himself. This was not apparent (or maybe just v.v. slightly) until we moved in together but we did not live together before I was pregnant (mistake IMO!) I can do better (and I don't mean that in a smug way lol).

Could you tell me more about the '3 times' thing Diggs, if you are still around?
Does it mean you should make clear to someone that they have crossed your boundaries 3 times and then give up if they continue to ignore it?

I had a counsellor once when I was having family issues as a teenager who said something about DESC scripts? (Describe Behaviour, Empathise, Specify what you need done and by when, Consequences). Is this similar or just a way of asserting boundaries?

I actually do worry that I, like you said, I don't have the right 'ruler' for myself and question whether I should even feel how I feel A LOT. I don't remember exactly, but the counsellor from YEARS ago above said something about "dissociation" but I never read much into it at the time, have googled it since but I'm unsure of the definitions.

OP posts:
garlicbutter · 26/04/2011 19:03

One expression of diassociation is the feeling "it's not happening to me". This is quite likely if that's what you pretended while something bad was happening to you as a child. Other common types of disassociation are "watching my own life through a window" and fuguing - going "absent". Everybody does all of these things all the time, btw; it only causes problems if it's happening for long periods or you can't pull yourself out of it.

So, yeah, it's harder to recalibrate your inner ruler if you can't quite feel what somebody has just made you feel! I'll let Diggs answer her own questions though!

DESC scripting is a rock-solid assertiveness technique :)
Try mindfulness work to help with the dissociation, it helps me a lot (was mindfully digging the garden yesterday!!) Also, your counsellors probably gave you some tools for evaluating your own feelings? If you fetch them out for an airing, they might surprise you with their usefulness ...

Diggs · 26/04/2011 22:14

Hi Peeled , yes , it means 3 goes and your out , whatever the issue , whatever behaviour you dont like whether its pesistantly being late , making jokes at your expense , or in my case the tickling . It can feel petty and ridiculous , i have to reframe it in my mind or i wont follow through . Ie if i were to say to myself , oh its only a bit of tickling , he wasnt trying to kill me fgs, im taking this a bit too literally ect , id end up excusing it and thinking it was about the tickling . It wasnt.

What actually happened is he playfully tickled me . At this stage to be fair he wasnt to know i didnt like it so no big deal initially , although i did tell him clearly i didnt like it . He apologized immediateley . The second time , it didnt feel like playfull tickling because he already knew how i felt about it , it was a physical act that he inflicted on me whilst ignoring my feelings about it. I again told him i really didnt like it , that id told him previously , and to not do it again . He again apologized aparently sincereley .

At this point i was thinking " please dont do it again or ill have to bin you " , but goes without saying he did , despite being told clearly and loudly how i felt about it . This happened on 3 seperate occasions not all on one day . It wasnt a gentle ticke on the arm but a full on horrific tickle under the arms and all over ( sounds funny writing that down !) and i was squirming and squeeling . Nobody could think i was enjoying it.

It really was about him inflicting himself on me this way , doing something physical to me that i did not like and ignoring my feelings . I also suspect it was an attempt to humiliate me . Either way it was a warning that he was not respecting my feelings or my right to say No and had unhealthy boundarys and an issue of " ownership " i felt . ( Dickhead ). Counseller stressed that 3 goes and your out will weed out all the tossers immediateley and shes right . Theres plenty of them out there , and there harmless until you get into a relationship with them . The idea is to stop them at the door .People with healthy boundrys recognise these tossers immediateley and instinctiveley come away , its not that they dont meet them , they do , but they discard them quickly . Suckers like me marry them Confused

We talked about being mindfull , as Garlic says , which was very very difficult for me , because as soon as someone was rude to me my heart would pound , i would feel sick and shaky and time would go fast until it was all over . This wasnt in response to being attacked by the way , it could be something as simple as someone pushing in front of me in a queue .I would pretend it didnt happen because i didnt want to deal with it .

I learnt how to be aware of where i am , how im feeling , and where im feeling it . I learnt to feel my feet on the floor , the wind in my hair , to notice how my body feels and to be right here , right now , instead of staggering through each day in a sleepwalking state as i had always done . Its quite a wake up call . Everything looks and feels differant , it sounds daft but i often notice how comfortable my body is , and ive sort of missed it . A nice side effect for me is that time goes reeaallyy slowly for some reason.

Im off to look at this DESC thing , im not quite there yet.

PeeledOff · 26/04/2011 23:50

Thanks Garlicbutter (-: I don't think I dissociate very often, I think she meant in the context of when thinking about a traumatic childhood one-off event. Although if I hear a man raise his voice or get angry I often 'freeze' and sort of want to get out the situation but can't iyswim.

Will try the mindfulness, going to read up on it.

Thanks Diggs, the 3-strikes-and-out policy sounds like a very good idea for weeding out idiots. I'm a bit apprehensive about dating in general (always have been) so I'm not actively looking but perhaps if someone did approach me I'd take it slow and 'weed out the tossers' Grin. I imagine it must be soooo much easier and less painful to get rid of the undesirables straight away, before feelings get hurt. All I seem to get just now are the really smarmy types I can spot a mile off and quite repulsive! You know the type - (recently from a taxi driver) "oh you are gorgeous babe, you should get into glamour modelling" Hmm hahahahahaha! erm...don't think so... and also I have never met you before.. what is wrong with a hello?! yuk. Can spot them a mile off, it's the more subtle ones which are the problem.

OP posts:
deburca · 27/04/2011 13:24

My deal breaker is a guy who just couldn't stand up to his parents, I ended up losing all respect for him and having a few very choice words myself with them.

I felt like the ow in my relationship with him because everything that happened was ran past them, ie changing his car even though we had walked around car dealerships for 4 consecutive weekends and decided on one but his dad didnt think his choice was a good idea so he changed his mind. That was the least of it - I ran screaming for the hills let me tell you!!

BlueTopazDP · 03/05/2011 14:37

Fascinating to read all your posts ...

I split from my b/f in Jan, a 8-year relationship where I lost all my boundaries & power, to the point that when he was in town again in Feb, and came to collect his things at my home, he tried to force himself on me. When I refused, he shouted "Why cant you just do what I want and shut the f### up for a change?!". He now denies he ever said this, but it just confirmed the anger issues that he has.

Subsequently, a few weeks ago, I met a man at a friends house, first impression was "rough diamond" but very friendly and harmless, and we hit it off really well.
We have been on a few dates, over the last 3 weeks, and I am trying to keep it light and take it slow, as I feel I am still not 100% over my ex.

My concern is this, and this is where the mindfulness comes in, he has on 2 occasions been really crude in a sexual way i.e. telling me what he would like to do to me, bearing in mind we have not been sexual, but yes we have "kissed and cuddled".

Immediately I feel this bubbling in my chest where I feel the need to react or say something, but haven?t, because it seems "silly" and yes, we tend to make excuses for people by saying "that?s just how he is". I also am wary that I could be pushing him away, or finding reasons to not see him anymore, due to my unresolved feelings regarding my ex.

I find the crudeness offensive and disrespectful, due to the infancy of the relationship, whereas I may not feel that way if the relationship were to continue for a good while longer and I felt more comfortable with him in an intimate sense where openness about sex and desires is a good thing.

I guess the female part of me would also prefer a little romance thrown in in these initial stages, instead of me feeling like a piece of meat on a slab ...

I feel I should say something the next time it happens, but WHAT?

RudeEnglishLady · 03/05/2011 14:59

BlueTopaz what strikes me about your post is that this man is not what you are looking for. If you want a bit more romance and not to be spoken to disrespectfully then start dating someone else. Its that simple. Don't bother saying something next time, just don't have a next time. Its not up to you to teach a grown man how to behave. Please listen to your instincts!

For me deal-breakers are mostly to do with lack of personal responsibility so - wash yourself, feed yourself, house yourself, pay for yourself and any offspring. Tell the truth. Don't allow your behaviour to hurt or frighten others - no excuses. Control yourself, basically. I would not tolerate any sort of self-indulgence that interferes with your duty to be an adult!

SueSylvesterforPM · 03/05/2011 15:26

millie30 so bad glad you got out

Controlling behaviour
Cheating
Double Standards
allowing their family to be abusive to me
Harming children

atswimtwolengths · 03/05/2011 21:09

I agree with you absolutely, RudeEnglishLady. This guy has been crude twice - you yourself refer to 'piece of meat.' Just get out whilst you can, before you get involved sexually with him.

NOmeansNO · 03/05/2011 21:52

no sercets/white lies - cant trust at all if i catch any of these out.
must pay half bills (this is the on recent exp broke)
when losing a job must be willing to take ANY job, no matter what rather than sit at home just becuase i make enough to support us while they "choose something fullfilling" (again, ex got sacked for this, he wouldn't apply for dominoes delivery driver, but would sit at home while i worked all overtime i could get)
no teasing - i dont get this. i just get offended. i also dont want my kids subjected to it. its not funny/humour, its bullying.
no drugs
food/holidays/gifts before pub in household budget
xmas presents are a must.

washed regular - more than 2 days without a wash is clatty. daily washing is preferred.

Anniegetyourgun · 04/05/2011 11:00

"That's just how he is" isn't a reason to stick with someone. Not liking it is just how you are, and why is "just how I am" less important than "just how he is"? You're almost persuading yourself you ought to be cool with it, and yet, why should you? Sometimes there's nothing wrong with either partner as such, they just don't make a very good fit together. Your rough diamond may well suit somebody else down to the ground. But if he has ways that grate on you, it's not your duty to become the person who wouldn't mind. We're all different and we have a right to be.

God, I wish somebody had told me this a hundred years or so ago when I was courting. So many things that I wouldn't compromise on nowadays. So many boundaries bargained away. Mind you I was perfectly able to assert myself when I believed I had a right to. XH did the tickling thing once too, but only the once .

BlueTopazDP · 04/05/2011 11:33

Agree with all said.

Just believe that being "offended" in this scenario, has alot to do with how well we know each other.
For example, in a close intimate relationship, I dont "feel like a piece of meat" if my partner were to be sexually explicit (with respect) in the right context.

But yes it does point to the fact that HE doesnt seem to sense that there are boundaries and perhaps they can be shifted at a later stage, if they are not actually harmful to the relationship.

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