how do you do it?

[pinniethewooh]

I am knackered. Breastfeeding on demand and my DC is four months, going through a growth spurt and the last few days has woken me up several times at night. It's making me very grumpy.

DH has been sleeping in the spare room since before the baby was born, firstly because he snores and now because he has to go to work.

I am absolutely fine about this arrangement (though I hope one day we can share a room again!) but I am starting to get stressed by the lack of help at the weekend.

DH gets a lie in on a Saturday (I caught him with ear-plugs in yesterday) and also isn't up early on a Sunday. Fair enough, he can't breast feed and I accept that but...

We don't have a bath/bed routine so DH doesn't take that on as a special role (when we do bath the baby we tend to do it together) and as DH leaves for work before I get up I do all the morning stuff with the baby. It seems that whenever he does take the baby it's only ever for a few minutes and he always brings him back to me if he cries and says 'he wants mummy'. It's getting right on my tits, I would like some time to myself where I am not doing housework. DH has a LOT of time to himself to mess about online etc

What's a 'normal' amount of time for DH to be spending helping with our baby? Do you have a fair split or should I just accept that while I am feeding like this I will be left with most of the childcare? Seriously, it's driving me a bit mad because it seems so unfair but I accept that Biology means I am left doing a lot of the care.

Jesus, poor you Pinnie.

I am still b/feeding an 8 month old but dh does loads. He baths ds every night and now that we have dropped the 2am feed, he pats him back to sleep if he wakes.

From birth, dh would put ds in the sling when he came home from work so that they could spend time together. He also spends lots of time with our older child.

He would never sleep in another room and was great moral support during the 4 month growth spurt. The deal was I picked up ds and dh put him back and dealt with any subsequent settling.

The other thing is that we had a chat early on so that there were no expectations about the housework. My role during the day while I'm on mat leave is to nurture ds - I don't want the stress of housework. We bumble along in the evening and we both sit down when the kids are in bed and have a bit of down time.

You need to have a chat.

Could you try to get some extra sleep when baby is asleep? I can't remember getting any help with my DD when she was this age, and I presume this is the "norm". I can't think why a dad would particularly want/ be expected to help out unless they were at home or if mum was at work, especially if baby is breastfed. Or perhaps I'm being old-fashioned? Being knackered is the norm at this age - mine didn't sleep through until she was walking!

"I can't think why a dad would particularly want/ be expected to help out unless they were at home or if mum was at work" --> I can't believe I am reading this. Because it is the dad's child to? Because you are supposed to WANT to spend time with your child? Because a good man participates willingly in taking care of his own baby?

So, according to you biryani, it is perfectly acceptable that one member of the couple sees the other absolutely knackered, not sleeping at night and doesn't even give a hand?

Thanks for posting Aurynne. I read Biryani's post and thought maybe our setup was unusual.

What I can say is that dh gets a lot out of being close to our children. And I love him all the more for wanting to make my life easier.

you poor thing, no wonder you're knackered. I thought my XH was bad, but he was saintly compared with this.

Right, first of all, it might be time to start some kind of bath/bed routine as it might get your ds into a pattern and give you more sleep at night. I used to do bath at 6, bed at 7 pretty much from day 1 and my two soon got used to it. I was on my own with them from very early on as their father worked away, so it was vital that the sleep side got sorted asap or I'd have lost the plot.

Secondly, when your DH is home he needs to be pitching in. If he can't help with feeding, he can certainly do a bit of cooking or cleaning, or sling a load of washing on. This isn't helping you out, it's just doing what needs to be done. Lie ins were always shared equally in our house, as were night feeds (I used to express so XH could give the milk in a bottle)

I hope a good talk sorts things for you, get it cleared up now before you end up tired and resentful.

yama, you aren't unusual, I hope. One of my best friends has a set up like yours, and they are a really lovely, happy family.

I can't think why any father wouldn't want to be involved, quite the opposite of biryani's view.

I am mostly happy to do the bulk of the childcare in the week, I am on maternity leave and DH has to work so I bumble along in the day. What I find frustrating is the quality (and quantity I suppose) of the help he offers in the evenings and Weekends.

Today we went out to a park and I looked after the baby for about 90% of the time while he took part in a hobby with his brother. When we got home I continued to look after the baby while he did 'stuff' in the other room. In the end, after getting really pissed off I left the baby on the rug and went upstairs - this is not the first time I have done this. DH heard the baby crying and asked me what I was doing. Realising I was pissed off he has just spent the last 30 minutes with the baby, got him to go to sleep and put him to bed. Brilliant! However I don't think I should be having to leave the baby to cry to get some help.

We have talked about it and DH will take the baby but either ends up handing him back or seems unable to console him when he's crying so I step in.

Maybe it is fairly normal in these early days? I will be going back to work in September and really will need him to be helping me out more once we are both back in work. SOmetimes I just feel that life goes on as normal for him while everything has changed for me.

Thanks Carlywurly.

Good point about the lie-ins as well. We have always shared. After a 6am feed in bed, your dh could take ds for at least 3 hours and let you have a sleep. Dh has always said I can have both if I need them. Nice to know. I would never take him up on it but nice to know.

You definitely need to talk. Tell him exactly how you feel. Nice and calmly. Think about what you want to say beforehand.

Also, stop taking ds back when he's crying. He can settle him.

I haven't started expressing, maybe I should. I have been putting it off a DS was in special care in the early days and I had to get him off the bottle (of my milk) and onto the boob so I feel strange about now reversing that - I was thinking of using a Doidy cup but was waiting until he's over 4 months. In a way I love breastfeeding so much I just don't want to do anyhting else but I am putting myself into a situation where DH can't help with feeds. Also - even if he could I am not sure if I feel it's fair to make im wake up to help when

a. I will already be awake anyway
b. he has a demanding job and has to get up early for work.

I suppose I feel like once I am back in work then it will feel fairer for both of us to have interrupted sleep.

If you're like me pinnie, I am very organised and do everything quickly - that is, I can see what needs doing and do it in .2 of a second. Not everybody is like that, and my kids have complained that I don't let them do things on their own, that I step in too quickly. I wasn't aware I did this but I do know that I think most people move at a snail's pace (). Maybe you're doing it all, not giving him the chance to do anything? I'm not suggesting that's the whole picture though, as it does seem like you have the lion's share of the work - but maybe you have set that up iyswim? Just a thought.

I wasn't working and DP was in a demanding job with long hours when DD was born, and I was used to being organised, so I would expect to have seen to DD's routine needs on my own, and nap when she was asleep. It did not mean that DP was a crap dad - he wasn't - and was always very willing to take her out in the pram or play with her when she was a bit older.

Oh dear how awful. I suppose my first advice would be start a bedtime routine and stick to it like glue. It will make your life so much easier, in so many ways. I would start it together and move on to him doing it up to feeding. Once it's established I would be "out of earshot" sorting out kitchen and living room and can't help because you have "armfuls of washing" or whatever.

This helps because you get time to clear up after the day, you get time on your own when you don't have to respond, and you get an hour, two, maybe three if you're lucky of baby-free/feeding time when they are asleep. It's v important for peace of mind that you know you can say goodnight at 8pm and that's that. For a bit, anyway.

We do have a loose routine at night which is generally putting the baby down around 9.30pm but we've not got a self settler so it is more a case of rocking and singing the baby to sleep and then going to sleep with him. his routine isn't set though so sometimes it can be earlier or later.

I do kind of resent the fact that if the baby is asleep it is me who is rushing around sorting washing and tidying up.

I would get a routine toot sweet. I would start at 7.30 bathtime aiming for feed at 8.30 latest and down. I can't think of a single thing that would change your life more, except for your dh suddenly turning into superdad which isn't going to happen. Just make sure he's involved in the routine from the start.

I can think of so many of my (female) friends who have got very demanding jobs - one is a barrister who tries extremely tough child abuse and rape cases, for instance. She never got to sleep in a separate room from her babies because of that and shared the childcare and baby stuff with her husband. Why should it work differently the other way around?

Why do men think having a demanding job should excuse them from any help with babies at night (or any time of the day, for that matter)???

If you are a parent of a new baby, you are knackered from lack of sleep. Doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman - it's just part of being a parent. It's completely wrong to leave one person to bear the brunt of it all by themselves. That's the point of marriage - it's a partnership.

pinnie lots of good advice already, but I just wanted to add that, unless you are specifically open and state exactly what you expect your DH to do with regards to housework, he isn't going to be able to read your mind and do it off his own back, if he's already used to you doing it.

You need to sit down and work out very clearly, between the two of you, exactly what your DH should do around the house and with regards to the baby. Then there's no grounds for misinterpretation, or your DH slacking off what is actually as much his responsibility as yours.

Don't put up with it. If he isn't the sort of man who just gets on with stuff that needs doing in his own house, then you will have to train him. Firmly.

Just because you BF doesn't mean he has an excuse to do nothign else. He can be in charge of laundry, hoovering, cleaning the bathroom, shopping, bathing your baby, cleaning/dressing and stimulating your baby, and all number of other things.

Good luck. Start as you mean to go on I always think.

I agree completely dollius.

I cannot believe the OP's husband thinks his behaviour is ok. And from the OP it would seem he justifies it with the excuse that the baby is breastfed!

dollius, was your friend breastfeeding and did she take any maternity leave? I don't really see the sense in both of us being woken up to breastfeed. Also I am more than happy not to have the snoring close by at the moment. When I am back at work and expressing, then it makes more sense to share the feeds and night wakings imo.

I really do need more help in the evenings though.

I am not sure how a routine starting at 7.30 would help us because ds does a big sleep then lots of small ones so I would still be woken up at two hourly intervals and by getting him to sleep earlier I am not maximising my sleep time at all.

overmydeadbody, you are right of course. I just want the babyu taken off my hands and entertained a bit more.

oh,

do you really think it's unreasonable that my dh gets a full night's sleep? I just think it would be quite mean to wake him just for the sake of waking him. What would that achieve apart from making him sleep deprived too and meaning we have 2 grumpy people in the house. Yes, I want more help the rest of the time but I really don't expect any help with breastfeeding at night.

Yes, my friend did breastfeed, but as she is a barrister and is self-employed, she had to go back to work after just two or three months. She continued to breastfeed - expressing etc and feeding at night. She would then go and do a trial the next day on four hours sleep. She accepted that as part of being a parent.

I do not accept you have to be completely confined by biology. If we really believed that, we wouldn't fly around in aeroplanes. You can express and he can get up in the night to do the odd nightfeed with a bottle - let you have an uninterrupted six-hour stretch once in a while (every other night would be good). Doesn't have to be every night, but it is bloody wretched to be on your knees the whole time, and you need a break.

The other point is that nightime waking is not just about breastfeeding. Your dh could be getting you a drink so you don't always have to stagger around the house, exhausted, in the middle of the night, or bringing the baby to you or settling the baby back down again. It is a team thing, not something only one person should be doing.

I'm co-sleeping so not really staggering about but, yes, I could start to express and get him to do the feeds. Although for nightfeeding I do find breastfeeding a lot easier than I would bottles and ideally I want the baby to go from breast to cup with no bottles inbetween.

I do get that I need to give DH instruction and a role to play but I wish he would be able to think for himself and recognise that I am really tired sometimes. It's been worse lately because of the growth spurt.

My DH works - in a difficult job that he has to be really on the ball for so he sleeps in the spare room Sun-Thurs. Weekends or home officeing and he is in with us and so he might have to change a nappy in the night or something, get woken up if I'm BFing DS or whatever.

DH does the first nappy change at 7am ish, brings me baby and coffee.

He often works late or is away for work trips so we can't really rely on him in a routine. When he is here he does a lot of food prep, spoon feeding, changing, playing, singing type things. He's not a pub-goer and the fact that he is with us acting enthusiastic boosts my energy as as I don't feel like I'm doing the 'shit-work'.

I get tired also - what I find helps is getting DS out of my bed after feeding so I don't get woken up getting kicked and gouged by him. Having a babysitter for a couple of hours in the afternoon sometimes when I'm really tired. I use my friends sister (phd student) or an Ed student from the Uni - not expensive and flexible.

The other thing is to eat properly and get your vitamins - are you sure you've got enough Iron? At 4 months I was still Iron deficient and so took a supplement. I think I even had a thread called 'why am I so tired?' or something!! I felt better when DS started eating food at 5 months, suddenly i was not the sole provider of sustenance and DH got a lot more involved.

It does help, I promise, it brings order to the rest of the days sleeping and mental rest to you because you know there are times when you can have yourself to yourself.

In addition it means you can be more decisive about when and how your dh does more around the house and with the baby. If you are having to be spontaneous and unpredictable it makes things harder. Starting a bedtime routine would be a good start. It would give you time to talk to your husband about what he needs to do.

He is obviously incapable of using his initiative and wishing won't make it happen, sorry, but once he starts he might get some momentum.

If I were you I would arrange your mornings so that he can shower, breakfast etc then have time after the morning feed to hold the baby while you get up, shower, have breakfast and get organised.

In the evening, handing over the baby to be bathed, cuddled, talked to etc is a godsend. After the feed he can spend the time sitting quietly in the room if that's needed. This time for you in the evening is like gold.

Got to go but I think a routine will a. give you more time and b. make you more decisive with him. He has to be put in a routine as well because he obviously can't do it himself. He needs telling.

ok, I'm back.

I started a routine lastnight, bath at 7ish baby asleep by 8. I watched tv for an hour (dh made dinner) and went to bed at 9.30. DS woke me at 12.30 am, 2.30. 4.30 and 6.30 then we got up at 9ish. DH already in work.

Tonight DS had a short nap at about 4 but is awake now and DH has had him for less than half an hour while I put some washing out and started making dinner. almost the whole time dh had the baby he grizzled and cried so I have taken him back and fed him. DH went back on the internet but then came up to see me and said we should write a list of things to do as he will be off work for 11 days. his list consists of things like clearing out the back yard, cleaning out the shed, putting stuff in the loft. I've pointed out that he would have to do all that alone while I looked after the baby and actually what I would prefer is for the bathroom to be hoovered, the kitchen cleaned, ironing done - and not just for the next 11 days but regularly so we keep on top of them.

I just don't think he gets it.