DH's selective memory of events is making me really annoyed

[Makudonarudo]

Last night we were talking about my wanting another child (he had a vasectomy after our last DC, now 4). He always says "but you can't have any more children", and I was trying to explain that that wasn't how it is in my head - I can, but not with him, and I don't want a child so much that I'd break up our relationship. I said "it was a mutual decision to have children, but only your decision that there would be no more children - you've had the vasectomy and you've said no to adoption and fostering. So it's an absolute for you, but emotionally it's not for me".

He said "it wasn't a mutual decision to have the DCs, it was all you". He's said stuff like that in the past. I pointed out that he was an active particpant in sex without contraception having agreed to try for a baby, and that he'd handheld me through three miscarriages, so it's not like he could claim that the DCs were in any way a surprise. But in his head, that's what they were. His version of events (which he accepted didn't make sense), was that I just got pregnant with DC1, and DC2 just happened along afterwards.

He had no memory of the hours and hours and hours of discussion we had about it all, and while he could remember the miscarriages and even the genetics appointments (miscarriages predated DCs), somehow in his head he never wanted children per se, I magically aquired them and he "went along with it".

He was like that with our wedding, too - "it's Maku's wedding, I'm just turning up when she tells me to", which was really gutting for me as it felt like he thought (and wanted others to think), I was forcing him down the aisle. It took a lot of the enjoyment out of it for me, yet when I told him I really didn't care about a wedding and said I was happy to cancel the whole thing or scale it back massively he got really angry with me - he didn't want the responsibility for my unhappiness, either. It's the same with my broodiness - he won't acknowledge my feelings at all other than to dismiss them.

He loved the wedding (far more than I did actually, but I guess he hadn't had any stress about it), and he loves the DCs but in his mind I chose to have them and he had nothing to do with it.

It is really, really upsetting me. Regardless of the fact that, when pushed (as I did yesterday), he'll accept he's got it wrong, his core belief is still that I wanted to get married, I had the DCs and he was just pulled along in my wake. I hate that he has that image of me, it feels like a really unhealthy one. In reality he is the driving force - we've relocated twice because of his work, his preferences carry the day.

I'm desperate to please him, always (he's really laid back and rarely praises or criticises), and I think this fiction that I've dragged him into a life he wouldn't necessarily have chosen is why. But he persued me relentlessly, he proposed, he said "we'll try again" after every m/c, he said "I think if we're going to have another baby we should start trying soon".

I just don't understand this fiction of passivity and it's making me a bit cross, now. Perhaps it's because he didn't want to do any of that stuff? Perhaps he was trying to make me happy and resents me for not being grateful? Perhaps he misses the childfree life and this is a way of pretending he didn't choose to leave it behind?

I don't know whether I should push with this or not. I can't see that it would do any good but I hate that his understanding of our family life is so warped. It makes me feel like he doesn't know me at all - or care to.

Hmmm. Does he say 'you wanted them, not me' when there's trouble? Or does this belief only come up when you're chatting about it all?

It's an odd belief, and I don't think it has much to do with you at all - I think it has more to do with him. He wants to feel like he didn't make these decisions. I don't really understand why, though. It doesn't sound like he does, either!

It's good that he recognises that his beliefs are illogical ...

Does he regret getting married? Does he regret having children? Maybe he just needs to feel that you wanted marriage, and children, with him, so much, that you pushed for these things. Maybe he's terrified (on a level) that he pushed you into these things ...

He never, ever says that. In a way it would make more sense if he did - if he 'denied' them (or the marriage, or whatever), when things were bad. He's actually incredibly sentimental about them and, for example, when we were discussing my pregnancy with DC1 (soft markers for a fatal disorder we would have terminated for), he teared up thinking about DC1 not being here. He adores the DCs beyond all measure, takes them out to play all the time, is a really hands-on dad. He talks about them non-stop to others too so it's not that he's clinging to the image of a single life.

He thought the wedding was wonderful and is "so glad" the DCs are here. He would never undo it. He wears his wedding ring every day (I don't wear mine at the moment due to weight gain), But it's important to him on some level that he wasn't an active participant?

He gives lip service to them being illogical but he hasn't changed how he puts things. Watching him struggling yesterday was quite interesting as he was clearly unable to reconcile chronology - I said "even if you are trying to claim that we never had those discussions about trying for a baby, you sat with me through three miscarriages so must have known I was getting pregnant", and he said "and that was... before DC1... I remember, but..."

It feels really disrespectful to me and to the DCs to act like they are something I did to him. But perhaps that's what he thinks?

What an odd attitude, I can see why you're pissed off. To me it sounds like one of those really irrational thoughts that everyone has but that they usually keep to themselves. What is his purpose in telling you? He must see how it hurts you and really there's no point in going on about it because it's absolutely barmy and nonsensical. Apart from this issue are there any other problems in your relationship?

I can totally see why you're pissed off - it would exasperate me, too.

But I don't think this attitude is about you (or the DCs at all) - I think he wants (needs?) to feel sure that you wanted these things, so he chooses (subconsciously) to see it as all your choice.

I think he shows how much he values you and the kids by his actions ... well, you talk about how he treats the kids, how is he with you?

Could be about perceived roles. Maybe he was brought up to believe that the woman makes decisions about such matters as weddings and when to have children, and it would be somehow "unmanly" to admit he was not only involved but keen. You may never get to the bottom of why he won't admit these things to himself. Thank goodness nobody told him he wasn't allowed to be tender and loving!

It's not so much an irrational thought as a core belief of his. I'm tying it in with the fact that he never ended a relationship (he cheated on his partners instead - this was before my time but he would start a new relationship as a way of getting out of the old one - horrible I know; he was very young at the time but still), and a general refusal to make decisions he could be held accountable for/fear of doing the wrong thing.

Which is as kind as I can be about it - in one form or other most of the problems in our relationship are about that. For example we're losing money on a property we're renting out; I want to sell it but he's scared it might rise in value in the future and not be worth it. But we can't buy a house without selling this flat, so he's stopping us relocating despite saying he wants to. Only other issues are him being a bad drunk/drinking to get drunk and stuff to do with his dyslexia. Really the problems are to do with my being very different from the (teenage), girl I was when we first met. He doesn't seem to have changed much over the years.

I think perhaps he's scared of things being 'his fault, or of consequences, but it's really not on that he's convinced himself that marriage and kids was all my idea and he's just been pulled into it. It pisses me OFF - I don't really care too much about the whys and wherefores if he's not going to do anything to change it.

Annie, he was brought up by women - single mum who worked all the time and nannies/communal arrangements. Real 70s progressive values - he's certainly not generally 'old fashioned' in his views on male/female roles. I suppose there's an argument there that he's used to deferring to women/having them make his decisions for him, but I am NOT like that (and really hate being the one who makes the decisions and therefore shoulders the guilt for any bad consequences), and it upsets me that he has convinced himself that I am, or tried to shoehorn his version of me into that dictatorial role.

If that's what he's done. Pfft.

possibly it's about responsibility. If it was you, then it's your 'fault'. Your decision, your choice. If things are bad or hard, it's not HIS fault - it's yours. You did it to him. He can blame you. If only in his head. He's just done as he's told so nothing is his responsibility.

Have you noticed if his view of reality is warped in other ways, too?

Try talk to him about other things in the past, such as holidays, etc, things which are not so emotive for you. His upbringing, student life, things you know he has told you before, or his work placements, try and see how his memory is with those life situations too.

It could be that it is not only confined to wedding and kids.

How old is he?

He's 35 now.

He has very little memory of the past (and people). He never remembers anyone's name or how he knows them - I have a great memory so it's strange for me. He sometimes says that his memory had the lenscap on.

He remembers things - going to see his dad in the states, trips he's enjoyed, memories from his childhood/schooldays/etc, it's not like he has amnesia. But he doesn't recall things with much clarity. He's dyslexic and I've heard that might be related?

Generally he'd never ever say "and that was my fault", about a bad thing that had happened. I've asked him at length about the way he treated his girlfriends (because I couldn't square that horrible callous behaviour with the man I knew), and he says "I didn't want to upset them", or "I didn't want the drama" (so he cheated on them messily instead, sure).

When I've pushed, he's accepted he did a shitty thing but it doesn't seem to affect him emotionally. He hardly ever spontaneously says sorry to me either - his first instinct is to explain his actions ("I forgot", often!), he never says "sorry" as a first response.

God he sounds like a right lamer.

I think it probably is about responsibility, but I wish he'd stop it. Ironically he has no issue with practical responsibility and doesn't shy away from confrontation or consequence in the workplace - quite the opposite, he has a reputation for being decisive and never trying to shift blame or take credit at work. Talking to his colleagues I wouldn't recognise him if it wasn't for how he acts when he's drunk. But to them, too, he claims that marriage and kids etc was all me.

Hmm, I wonder if his absent(ish?) father is part of the reason for this ...

But as you say, you're not that interested in the whys and wherefores. I doubt he'll get to the bottom of this without some therapy - it sounds like a coping mechanism that he needs, for whatever reason, and if you managed to get him to stop using it, worse things would happen, iyswim ...

I have no wise words I'm afraid.

My XH was like this and is still like this. I found it very draining. With him, it was definitely about responsibility - when things went wrong he could say "well it wasn't my fault"

I'm sure his upbringing has some bearing. The only time he gets emotional about things in the past (other than the DCs), is when he hears a particular song they played at his dad's funeral.

I think it probably is 'just the way he is' and he certainly has no interest in unpacking it or changing. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind etc. I'm just wondering how I missed it. I have spent a long time thinking I am overemotional and hold grudges and feel inappropriate guilt etc but I think, really, I just have a memory and empathy and it stands in stark contrast to H.

He does piss me the fuck off though. Next time I catch him abdicating responsibility I am going to try to get him to work it through like we did last night I think. Perhaps something will sink in then. Or he'll just stop saying "well the wedding/DCs were all down to you", that would be okay too.

I'll feel like a right mug if he cheats on me though.

blondebut ach that sounds rubbish. H doesn't usually do that (DC1 does though, which says a lot about how childish it is to kneejerk with "it's not my fault!"), but actually something he DID do which was fucking awful was tell me to stop talking about how upset I was about something which happened, as I was spoiling his happy memories of the same event. He totally banned me from discussing what was a very traumatic event for me with him. I really struggled with that.

BestName I think you make a really good point. He's been like this for ages, it's just recently with the vasectomy and the traumatic event that it's been an issue - I guess because it's the first time it's affected me directly.

I am really irritated that he will make no effort at all to engage with my feelings about not having more children. It would be really nice to not have my feelings dismissed out of hand because "well it's not going to happen so why waste time thinking about it".

Therapy... hmmm. He says he'll go if I insist (back to me then!), but "therapy isn't going to make me agree with you if I don't agree with you", and "I can validate your feelings without paying someone to listen". I've not actually booked anything because I'm worried he'll make fun of it or go (metaphotically), la la I'm not listening while paying seventy quid.

But I think I will sort something out though actually, nip this in the bud maybe?

Oh I got that too. There was a particular event which I found very very difficult and he ended up saying he wasn't going to discuss it anymore, because his memories were so different to mine.

it's as if he shut out the horrible bits so he didn't have to process them?

He is/was also crap at empathy.

I am not qualified to talk about how your DH might feel about your DCs and marriage, but I can share something about memory.

My memory is shockingly bad, especially about the specifics of events and chronology. If I don't have a record of something (diary, photos, even a calendar entry in my email) then I have to work on the presumption that my recollection will be flawed. If I make a real effort to commit something to permanent memory, which I tend to reserve for work matters, then I can but it's very difficult.

My DP has an excellent memory. When we disagree about how something was in the past and there's verifiable evidence of the facts then he is invariably right.

I find it deeply embarrassing, and I have to make a real effort to respond graciously when I'm wrong about my memory of something. I wonder if your DH hasn't yet learnt how to back down with grace, so says things that he knows will get you to back off?

blondebut oh no! I'm really sorry you went through that, I know how awful and isolating it is.

Hmmm bit worrysome - think I will do something about counselling. Pretty sure I don't want H to be an XH. Our nearest relate counsellor seems to be on our road and her website says she lives in the (tiny), village my parents are in, so might avoid her!

I don't really have any advice but wanted to say I understand what you are going through. My ex was like this, though about different things. It is one of the reasons our relationship broke down in the end (though not a major contributor, but the little things add up).

I actually reached a point where i thought I was going mad, and maybe it really was me that had the memory problem. It was help from re-connecting with friends who were not close to us that made me realise that it was actually him with the problem. If there hadn't been so many other problems we could have worked through this.

What you say about him cheating to end a relationship because he just couldn't be upfront about it - slightly different but after I called time on our relationship he admitted that he never would have, even though he knew we weren't happy because he just couldn't be the one to break my heart - placing the whole blame for the breakdown on me.
Like your DH my ex would also ask me not discuss emotional things with him, and he couldn't bear me crying - it was like he really feared me when I did, he couldn't touch or comfort me in any way. he just wanted it to stop, and the emotional display to go away. With me was a cold fish and yet I see him with our son and he is the most incredible father.....

When he found out i was on AD's a few months after we separated he made a comment about 'like you were after DS was born'. He described in detail the time i took the first tablet and the reaction I had, and it was all correct. But this was years before DS was born and when I told him that, he got verbally aggressive that I was wrong, then upset when his mother confirmed that I was right. He was absolutely convinced of his version of events. I realised in that one exchange just how messed up his brain is. I went home and started to think over all the times we'd had similar discussions.

I think that last time shook him, but true to form (for him) he just brushed it under the carpet and refused to seek any kind of help.
We do get on very well now, but I am careful to avoid any talk of the past that could lead us into this kind of confrontation again and on the few occassions when he does 'remember' his own version of events I don't challenege him on it, mostly because they are not things that have a direct impact on me (things like nights out/holidays with friends etc)

I do hope you can find a way to deal with this.....

I also have absolutely no visual memory, or ability to visualise. I'm at home with DP and the DSs right now, but if I close my eyes I can't "see" what any of them look like. I could describe them to you accurately enough, but I can't "see" them in my mind's eye.

I think this goes a huge way towards explaining why I tend to cope with traumatic events in real life better than most - I don't relive them whenever I shut my eyes. (In the same way that it's much less disturbing to read a violent scene in a book than to watch the same scene in the movie version.). I also find violent films really horrific because they make me witness things I would be otherwise incapable of imagining.

None of this is deliberately selective, BTW. It's just how I am.

Oh queenrollo that is chilling reading, I am so glad you are out of that toxic relationship! It sounds like your XP was gaslighting you terribly.

What you say about ADs sends a little chill down my spine, just because when I was struggling to deal with the traumatic event I've mentioned, I did say I was considering going on ADs and H reacted incredibly negatively, said he didn't want another mad girlfriend (his previous girlfriend had bad MH problems and he ended up being her carer in many respects), and that if I wanted to take ADs... not to tell him. Again. So not the same thing as your X, but it's reminded me that H has form for burying his head in the sand to the extent that I am not allowed to share some things with him.

I think what your X said about not wanting to end the relationship is very very like my H. It is all about not being 'responsible' - hmmmm.

My H is very affectionate and loving and will comfort me when I'm upset BUT if I am very upset with him he'll say I am being ridiculous to be crying and acts like it is something I am doing to him.

God I hope this is something we can work on positively. Thankyou so much for your post.

Queenrollo - I could be your XH. The difference is that I've learned to accept that it's me who's a bit wonky, not the world.

OP - if your DH is like me then he can learn to react in a more positive way. But first he needs to realise there's a problem and then take responsibility for improving it.