Is it EA? / XP meltdown

[circlehead]

I could type ALL night if I were to go into everything, but I shall try and keep it short for the purpose. I had a previous thread here in which I detailed XP's spoilt brat behaviour.

Since leaving XP, he appears to be having a breakdown. He used to text/call me to tell me when he was/had been crying eg ''i just cried in tescos'' until i told him it was emotional blackmail and to stop. He will now drop it casually into conversation eg ''I went for a run the other day and people were looking at me because I was crying''. He has also told me the following (normally repeatedly) via text/phone/face : he isn't eating, sometimes he can't work (self employed), he is self harming, he has nearly been run over twice due to being in such a state (chance would be a fine thing), he is having panic attacks, he is crying all the time.

He has also: smashed a remote control into his head in frustration while I was explaining why I didn't see a future with him, smashed his head over and over into his car interior in front of DS (8M) then tried to prevent me from removing DS from said car (an incident which has been reported to police in case of future reference), smashed his head against a wall twice while I was in the flat (then came to tell me he'd done it). He also has ''panic attacks'' in front of me, sobs like he is in a melodrama (often accompanied by ''nooo, please, noooo''), his hands ''won't stop shaking''. I remain politely neutral throughout.

Other ridiculous, self absorbed, attention seeking things he has said include: sometimes I think about just abandoning DS and leaving you to it, I would like to have him half the time, do you have a new boyfriend?, I don't like spending time with DS on my own.

Despite all this, he seems to have made it his mission to ''win me back'' although I have made it clear I no longer want to be in a relationship with him, due to finding him intimidating, aggressive, controlling, selfish, spoilt, immature, opinionated and irresponsible, amongst other things. He constantly plays the ''best thing for DS is to grow up in a stable family'' card, and is increasingly convinced we can work things out, get counselling, he can change, he knows I still love him really, he can make up for the past, he realises it's all his fault, he will never get angry/grumpy again (!).

I have to see him quite a lot as he sees DS as often as he possibly can. I used to have to be there to BF DS and XP would totally use that to his advantage. Fortunately have found a bottle that DS will take so can express now, make sure DS is ready to go and bag packed and try and get rid of XP asap (he invariably wants to come in to use loo or other excuse). Even when out with DS, he will call and ask if I want to come for lunch, even though I have stressed that I don't want to hang out with him, and he should focus on his relationship with his DS. Then I have to try and get rid of him, while he has a ''panic attack'' or simply cries.

Does this sound like emotional abuse?

Yes .

He sounds like he very much enjoys playinmg the victim , was he like this when you were together ?

Is it possible to have someone else do the handover or a freind present when he comes . You would be within your rights to say he is not stable at the moment and therefore he can not take the baby on his own.

Yup. yup, and yup again. What a dick this bloke is.
Disengage with him as much as possible. Don't let him in the house (put your key in your pocket, step out of the front door and close it behind you when you are handing DS over). Tell him that you only want to hear from him by text to do with practical stuff like his contact with DS and ignore any other calls or texts eg put the phone down on him if he starts whining. Tell him, calmly and repeatedly 'This relationship is over and I will not discuss it.'
If he starts becoming aggressive or really tiresome ie howling outside the door, inform the police. You can, if necessary, get court orders to keep this man away and have all handovers etc done through a third party.
Is there someone else who could help out now, like your mum/brother/sensible friend, who could be there to pass DS over to your XP and refuse to let him over the threshold? Remember that while DS has a right to a relationship with his father, the XP has no right to any contact with you whatsover.

Yes. I will not so far as to say that it is totally calculated, but it is EA. Minimise whatever contact you have with him. Keep it all in writing via e-mail because you may need it as evidence in the future. EA's are manipulative and can do so to friends, family and courts. Written evidence of his communications will be useful when dealing with him and others in the future.

Why would you expose your DS to this insanity? Tell XP when he starts to behave himself appropriately in front of you and your DS, he can see DS.

You were not married, there is no divorce and therefore no official access/custody arrangement. Tell him that until he behaves like a responsible human being that for the safety of your family that access will be suspended.

When he is in a position to promise to behave appropriately, you will allow access on a trial basis with a view to full access once he has proved himself.

If he disputes that, tell him to put his money where is mouth is, or take you to court.

Take the power back OP.

Diggs - No he didn't really have a victim mentality, although nothing was ever his fault (obviously). Funny, I always thought he was stronger and more capable than me, but turns out it's the opposite! He did manage to convince me to try things again once before through guilt tripping etc so I suppose he has seen that it works and is desperately trying to make it work again. I thought about saying he cannot have DS until he sorts himself out but feared this would make situation 100x worse. I do not really believe he is in the state he makes out he is and as such don't believe he is a threat to DS.

I am trying to keep things on as even keel as possible for DS and don't want to have to go down legal/3rd party handover route unless essential. Just hoping that XP will get bored eventually once he sees he does not get a reaction anymore. I tend to treat XP like I would a toddler.

You know him better than us so your in a better position to judge whether hes a risk or not , but i would not allow him to bleat like this in front of your Ds regardless of how young he is .

These men dont give up easily , and if possible i would have a freind round when hes picking up or dropping off and keep things business like . He,ll soon have someone else to feed off if he hasnt already.

what a pathetic specimen he is

he thinks he is stable enough to be a "stable family" for ds ?

no

just keep him at arms length...surely he will give up eventually ?

like when he finds a gullible new girlfriend to practice his AmDram on ?

and if he doesn't stop he dramatics in front of ds, I would withdraw his access until he can act like a grown up...he is only using it to get to you after all, isn't he ?

I too wouldn't let my child go off with someone who is so unstable, he doesn't even have parental responsibilty

Actually I would also endorse refusing him access and cutting contact until he can behave himself. Document everything he does in the way of texts, phone calls, emails etc, tell him that you are not going to put up with his childish tantrums.
Actually I have just read that your DS is 8 months. Stop all contact as DS won't miss it and if this man is as manipulative and childish as he sounds contact will do the baby no good anyway and might put him at risk.

(i just wanted to say how much I love SpringchickenGoldBrass for her excellent forthright advice.)

And yes, this guy is very manipulative. I would treat him like he is dangerous. If he can hurt himself like that, he could hurt you (or DS) too.

After the incident in the car, I expressed serious concerns to him over future contact and that if he actually loves DS, as he proclaims loudly over and over, he will not do anything of the sort ever again. Since then, there has been no repeats of anything of that nature, although the sobbing in front of DS continues, and again, it's down to me to say ''DS is not stupid, he knows something is up and is looking at you funny, kindly leave the room if you are going to cry''.

With regard to contact with DS, he generally brings him back fed, nappied, having been to the park/cafe/swimming, perfectly content. It seems XP's ''breakdown'' doesn't extend that far... Although he will then sob about seeing ''families'' out and about and how traumatic it is for him. He then tends to sit in his car outside for 10 minutes crying before he is composed enough to drive.

He knows he is on thin ice re DS, but he also wants me to buy into his ''breakdown'' for guilt purposes, so he's just trying to find a delicate balance I suppose. I have told him over and over, if he is not coping, he needs professional help, not just crying to me who can't do anything for him. He has now said he will go to the Drs but as yet has still not made an appointment.

I expect his mental health will improve considerably once he gets bored.

sounds a bit like my exP.
he is the victim self harming etc because of my "abuse" of him etcetc and traumatised by not being a family any more..bla bla.

is contact set out in written agreement when and where? set up toutine and schedule.

listen to SGB!
if he turns up crying - he doesnt take DS.
if he is self harming having anxiety atttacks - jsut tell him "go to your GP you need profresional help"

keep communication to email so you have a record.

use third party or do handovers in a public place not at your house if possible (now weather is better should be easy) . even waiting outside hosue ratherthan inside (a pain but keeps the boundaries clearer)

if he he has a ''panic attack'' or simply cries.
then take DS and leave him to it.

try not to engage at all - be heartless and cruel if you like. it is for his won good. these people feed on any attention "dont cry in front of DS" leads to "but i wouldnt be crying if we were together..." leads to you justifying leads to bla bla bla ....etc.

they are cunnign at engaging you and you need that voice in your head saying "dont engage! dont engage! dont say I feel or I want...just say "DS cannot be around you when you are like this, bye" take DS and go.

CLV is right, do not engage with him at all, keep to polite calm indifference, just as if he were a tantrumming toddler. I do thnk you should cut contact between him and DS for the moment: get a solicitor and tget it on a formal footing that this fuckwit's behaviour is so unstable that you think there is a risk to DS and that is why you have stopped contact.
The man will then have to demonstrate to a court that he can behave himself. Remember that he has no legal right at all to a relationship with YOU. You can refuse any contact with him whatsoever and insist that his contact with DS is carried out in a supervised contact centre and that DS is taken to and from the contact centre by someone else.

Other ridiculous, self absorbed, attention seeking things he has said include: sometimes I think about just abandoning DS and leaving you to it, I would like to have him half the time, do you have a new boyfriend?, I don't like spending time with DS on my own.

^^ thats really bad OP I would have limited time with him after that comment
maybe im just a meanie.

You seem to have your head screwed on right and see his behaviour for what it is :)

I think you need to have a serious firm word , no sobbing or bleating in front of ds or he doesnt take him , end of . Tell him this before he comes next time , and that there are to be no further discussions about your imaginary relationship .

If you arrange handovers and pick ups somewhere public i think youll find the bleating will stop , meet him in the town or something . I used to do this , there not so keen of making a cock out of themselves in public.

lol at diggs :)

CLV - you are spot on about one thing leading to the next, that is what always happens without my knowing how. Before I know it, I'm engaged in a full on discussion about the breakdown of our relationship/future prospects. He has accused me of being 'cold', 'heartless', 'cruel' asked 'why are you not upset?' (because I'm overjoyed at being rid of you, idiot) and 'how can this be so cut and dried to you??'. As I say, I remain neutral and continue to go about my business. If he has a panic attack, sorry I mean ''panic attack'', I might nonchalently offer to get him a glass of water, mainly so I can get away from him, but other than that will remain silent/continue to tidy up or what have you.

I have been fairly patient and compassionate up til now, but he needs to pull himself together around DS, as it's wearing thin. Do not want to go down contact centre route purely for DS's sake but obviously if XP's behaviour continues, something will have to give.

I think my problem is, in our relationship, there was always a massive power imbalance in his favour and it just feels so alien for me to take the reins, and I tend to default back to being passive when I feel out of my depth with him. I don't know if it is because of our ages as well ( I am only 23, he is 32 )

I'm only telling you this for purposes of general information; it just sounds as though you're confused about what's happening with him. I was a bit like this after XH quit (he was an abusive arse, but that's not relevant here.) I could not believe the amount of devastation I felt: I was physically & mentally destroyed. Unlike your ex, I booked myself a therapist instantly to find out what was going on - but I also made sure XH saw the symptoms he'd caused. You've just listed most of them

Even as I was doing it, I KNEW he didn't give a rat's arse how bad I felt! But I felt weirdly driven to do it. Part of me was still holding on to the idea that, if he'd ever cared about me, he'd want to ease my pain etc.

So what I'm saying is: perhaps he is feeling as though the world has ended. If he's reacting that strongly then, like me, it's more about long-term issues than your breakup. Or perhaps he's play acting but that, itself, is a signal of deep-seated emotional issues. Summary: He's bonkers. You might have triggered this, but you didn't cause it.

Sounds as if you're doing a sterling job of keeping yourself and DC safe. I'm sorry you're having to live through this, and very confident you'll come out of it better & happier :)

GB: Maybe your XP was a cock and horrible to you, maybe he just decided he didn't want to be with you any more. Thing is, once a person is dumped, s/he is dumped and the departing partner has no responsibility apart from to be fair about division of assets/access to shared DC. In the OP's case, she dumped her XP because he was a parasitic, selfish lazyarse, so therefore she is fully entitled not to give a flying fuck about how 'devastated' he feels. She's carried him long enough, now it's time for her to prioritize herself and her DS.
Circle: Remember that no matter how much he whines or calls you 'heartless', you are a perfectly reasonable person who is not responsible for looking after this failure just because he wants you to.

I don't disagree at all, SGB. I had the idea that OP was anxious about what drives all his nutty behaviour. All I'm saying is : [a] it is nutty, not her problem, and [b] if you're still looking for the 'why', here's mine for example.

If I made it look like I thought he/I deserved sympathy, I wrote it wrong.

.. although he wan't fair about division of assets, so that prolonged the agony.

GB: Fair enough. I did slightly get the impression you were thinking she should take pity on the knobber because he luuuuuurves her so, but I appreciate that itsn't what you meant.

:) cheers.

By being compassionate, you are feeding the energy monster. Whenever he starts, you need to look bored and walk away. If you can manage to half-smother a yawn, all the better.

GB- thanks for the other perspective. I appreciate that he probably is devasted, but I do wonder if it is to the extent that he makes out to me, or if he does exaggerate for effect slightly... I.e saying ''I know I need to go to the Drs'' but not actually making an appointment.... thus I still get the guilt trip but he still isn't taking steps to change things. He does obviously want me to prove I'm still supporting him, such as when he cries, he will wail ''how can you just stand there? Can't you give me a hug or something!'' I tell him that is not the way to go about things. Or will ask ''can't we just support each other through this?!'' Er, no. His own parents split when he was 8 or something and he seems to have reverted back to being a child, like when I was packing some of my things he was coming up to me with various bits and pieces and with massive, teary eyes, trembly bottom lip and a little boy voice saying ''remember we got this when we did XYZ?''. Very irritating. He has always thought he'd never want a child of his to grow up with spilt parents, but if that's the case, he should not have behaved like a selfish teenager throughout my pregnancy/DS first months!! He also doesn't like to be by himself, so there is that too I guess.