Temper flares

[Navani]

Name changed to protect the guilty.

My husband has some temper issues. He has always had them, since he was a child, and I am guessing they stem from his upbringing (badly tempered, sometimes violent father, submissive mother - DH is first child and always took the rap for everything his 4 younger siblings did, just because he was the eldest. it was either his fault for not keeping them in line, or it was his fault because the others wouldn't have possibly done that..)
When he gets angry or upset he starts getting loud, and loses control pretty easily. It's a lot like a toddler tantrum, actually, only involving adult language and force. A lot of stuff gets broken, the language is bad.
When he's in full swing, there is no stopping him, unless I want the noise and language aimed at me. I used to try, but gave up when I realised that I couldn't possibly stay calm when he called me a fucking bitch for asking him to calm down or even agreeing with him.
about 3 years after we got married, I couldn't take his tempers anymore, and we started drifting apart. His tempers got worse, and he became violent towards me. I told him he needed to get help, and if he didn't, or ever touched me again, I would be gone, back abroad where my parents live.
He had CBT, and went on Citalopram and Diazepam. Things improved, he got a little better at controlling his temper and anxiety, and we patched things up. nothing ever stopped, even on the meds, but it seemed easier to handle.
He never touched me again.
I became pregnant about a year after, and DS was born 2 years ago.

We moved to a different part of the country, and he stopped his CBT, then stopped the meds. Temper and anxiety came back.
Not as bad as before, but things still get broken, and the language is still terrible.
These outbursts happen a couple of times a week, more often when he is stressed. They can last from a couple of minutes to a few hours and involve him completely breaking down and crying hysterically by the end if they are long and bad ones. He knows they make him act like a prick, and he has apologised more often than I can count. I don't even want to hear it anymore, because I can't say "It's ok.". it isn't.
When he's in the middle of one of these, there is no getting through to him, nothing goes into his head, and when we've talked about it, he says it's like a red mist, or a black wall in front of his eyes, and anything at all will just make things worse.

He says he doesn't want to act like that in front of DS, but he has, a couple of times. If I can see that happening, I take DS out of the room, but it's just not good enough.

When he is not having one of these moments, he is the most wonderful husband and father, he works hard, and loves his family. DS adores him. I love him, but being heavily pregnant with DC2, I am finding this more and more stressful. I have explained this to him.
He doesn't want to try CBT or meds again because he says they didn't really work that well, and that the way the tempers escalated years ago was because of unrelated stress with his family, and that that got better because the stress improved. Also, where we live, everyone knows everyone else and their business, and he is ashamed, saying that everyone would know if he went to see the counsellor here. (and yes, they probably would.)

I don't know what to do anymore. I won't leave him, I've stuck with him through 7 years of marriage, and he is not a bad guy. He just needs help. But I don't know where from or how.

my DD who witnessed my H's terrible rages from when she was born, is prone to the same behaviour. My H died over a year ago and its taken an awful lot of discussion, careful management and understanding to channel her energy constructively

Hopefully it is not too late for her to overcome this.

What do you think will become of your children?

It's always the abused partner on here looking for tips on how to make the bully see that they need help, never the bully.

You can't make him see it's unacceptable, the only way you can take back control is by leaving the situation. You are a mother, you brought his children into the world, now it's your job to protect them, sadly, from him and his explosive rage.

The only possible way that I could imagine that these sorts of rages would be ok, would be if, upon feeling one coming on, your DH were to immediately flee to a private place where he could freak out in private, without hurting you or upsetting you, or anyone else.

But he says he only does it with someone else around. So this is complicated.

Lots of psychotherapy, I think. And I don't think sticking around makes much sense, really ... psychotherapy is likely to make things worse before they get better.

He says he wants to get better, but do it by himself.

Hes not ill op, hes a bully . He probably does get angry when no ones there but theres no one there to take it out on. Why would he only ever get angry in your presance , it doesnt make sense. If he ranted at the neighbours or freinds theyd likeley kick the shit out of him , thats why .

I really dont think its your place to try and find a therapist for him or convince him to go back on meds , its his problem and he needs to deal with it . I think the fact that he isnt doing those things reflects how much of a problem it is to him . In short , it isnt . Hes got someone to vent and rant at and all he has to do is whine and be sorry and all is ok.

What you should be doing is setting down some firm boundarys, he either stops or he leaves , end of. Would you send your son to a childminder where someone was acting like this ? Would you send him to nursery where a member of staff is prone to violent outbursts ? Of course not , but your son has to witness this in his own home where he should feel safe . If you lived next door to me i would call the police every single time i heard your H screaming and smashing things up. Every time .

Im amazed you are excusing him and trying to drag him to the gps when it is blatently obvious that this man has given himself permission to verbally and emotionally abuse you several times a week . Forget the gp , ring womens aid who will tell you in no uncertain terms that you are being abused .

You are behaving as his mother did, Submissive, with him acting out his fathers temper, in your presence.

He doesn't do it elsewhere, its only 'normal' in his own family life.

your children will copy

History doesn't repeat itself; people do

My H witnessed his father in a rage with his mother

My H raged at me in front of the children

My H never stopped until the day he died.

PLEASE, see this for what it is

i idont think she wants to,merrywidow.....she is too busy making excuses. i dont think either of them will do anything yet.

sadly

I was like your H. I had a "temper" which I was actually quite proud of. Nobody messed with me! I was violent when provoked, lashed out when wounded and made life hell for my DH when things went wrong and I was resentful and angry. The rest of the time I was an easy going happy calm person with huge patience for my DC and never lost my temper with them or at work.

Eventually I began to hate myself (for many reasons) and started psychotherapy. (Privately - £38 a week through BACP

After 18 months I have completely changed. I understand the triggers and the roots of all this. I have accepted I am a sensitive little soul pretending to be a tough person and that others hurt me. I can verbalise that instead of lashing out and show my feelings positively. I have rid my life of the people who were making me feel unloved and disrespected.

I am happier. Your DH could do this if he made it a priority. Which it is! It is the most important thing in his life if he wants to be a better father and husband and break free from his inheritance. You need to make it a priority too or your DC (and you) will continue to suffer and they will learn this behaviour too.

But only he can make the decision to change. Not you

I'm suprised that when he came off the medication and stopped the CBT and the temper started again that he didn't start immediately back doing these thing again. The would have been the first thing I would have done.

It sounds like he needs a lot of help and I think you can only be with him if he gets the help and is serious about it. You shouldn't have to convince him, he should be aware and know that it's necessary.

hey perfumed that is not always the case. I was bullying my DH and I came on here looking for help. Which I got

That's really amazing that you've sorted it out LittleHouseByTheRiver

Read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. You'll see your H in there.

He is capable of controlling these uncontrollable rages, but he chooses NOT to when it suits him. He took meds which meant that he couldn't get away with his mood swings, and then STOPPED them. ???? This is all about him and his need to get ATTENTION.

Stop making excuses for him, he's a big boy now. Big enough to throw a strop in front of his DC and scare the bejesus out of them, big enough to damage stuff - Whose stuff BTW, just yours, the DC, or HIS prized possessions too?

If, as I suspect, he is not randomly wrecking his own things then you need to understand very clearly that he IS in full control of these TANTRUMS every second of them. Just because his balls have dropped doesn't mean that he should be allowed to throw a tantrum and everyone drops what they are doing and appease him.

Put the overgrown baby H into time out. The next time he invades your space CALL THE POLICE. He is bullying you, your family, damaging your DC and terrorising everyone around you.

Littlehouse that's brilliant you got help, just wish there were more like you. It does seem on balance though that the majority of posts like this are from sufferers rather than perpetrators.

Hope the op takes inspiration from your great success. x

Thanks
It was not all good news though. Part of the problem was my relationship with my DH and leaving him was the solution to that. So the fall out for the family has been harsh. And I am not sure I would be able to cope with another relationship for a while yet.

I read lots of books about abuse and abusers and didn't feel they were describing me. I felt I was a normal kind considerate person 90 per cent of the time who had taken a wrong turn and was behaving badly because of faulty learning in my childhood. The therapy helped me fix that and I am so grateful and happy about that.

Relating my self-absorbed ramblings back to the OP, if her DH wants to change he can. If he is generally a nice thoughtful person who acts up when he is stressed then there is hope for him. If he is lacking in empathy or unable to accept responsibility for his actions then it may not be possible.

LittleHouseByTheRiver I know you said that you had psychotherapy and you paid for it but do you know if you can get it for free? I ask because I have a terrible temper which I believe is caused by things from my childhood. I've had counselling which has helped but feel I need to do more. It's important to me that I get better still as I don't want to damage my dcs in some way

He has been assaulting you, by dragging you by hair. Also in front of your DC. You cannot fix him and explanations of why he does it are pointless.

I have been here, lots of positives about my XDH, great provider, supporter (we have disabled DS) BUT none of that made his behaviour acceptable. It is his problem.

Hi PlopPlopPing

Good for you for wanting to change.

I found this book helpful

I would expect that your local Community Mental Health Team have a psychotherapy service with a 2 year waiting list. You could ask your GP to refer you but you would have to lay on with a trowel how your issues are affecting you and your DC to get referred on the NHS.

Another option might be to see if there are any trainee therapists looking for clients to practise on or asking if any have reduced rates if you have a low income.

Still worth it even if you spend the cost of a summer holiday on it!

Incidentally I think the OPs husband has got a chance if he is upset "when he feels he is being treated unfairly". That sounds to me like he might be overreacting to hurt rather than being incapable of empathy.

This will damage your dcs if it continues, OP. No matter how sorry for your P you feel, you can't let it continue to drag on.

He is choosing to unleash his range around you, knowing how bad it makes you feel. It's a CHOICE, not helplessness on his part. Thinking "he can't help it, poor thing, he needs help": this is a dangerous trap for you.

Lay it on the line. Tell him to stop making that choice. He can find other solutions. When he meets a trigger, he can leave the house, go for a ranty walk down the road if he has to. Up to him to find a way.

If he doesn't do that, then you have to accept that he is choosing to make you his whipping boy. He is okay with hurting you. And if so, then you have to leave. You are not responsible for him, but you are responsible for his dcs, and it is utterly wrong of you to leave them in harm's way.

"his" dcs should read "your" dcs. ahem.

Look Op , youve said he doesnt do it outside of the home ie at football because theres nothing to trigger it , yet you know deep down theres nothing to trigger it at home , he chooses to induldge himself in these nasty rants.

Ive said it before and ill say it again , in the midst of these "red mists " that he says he cant stop , i assure you he will compose himself immediateley if the door knocks . You can test the theory yourself by removing yourself from the room and knocking loudly on the door yourself .

Like all other abusers he portrays himself as the great family guy to outsiders but abuses his wife and child in the privacy of his own home where no one can see . Im sure his freinds would have real difficulty in imagining him acting that way .

While you are busy making excuses for him your son is being exposed to emotional abuse that will affect him . How awful for your small boy to have to listen to his dad screaming and breaking things , and unless your walls are soundproof he will be hearing . Stop making excuses for him op and see it for what it is.

When he was violent towards me, he pulled me towards a wall by my hair and held me up against it.
I think he's done this about 4-5 times in front of DS in the last 2 years

that is awful.
did you do anything? report him?

if he wont go to GP, ask for help, try new meds then you need to change your reaction.

if he is truly out of control - call 999.

tell him that his behaviour has consequences - if he cannot take himself out of the room, out of the houuse to scream at the trees in the garden - then next time he does get angry you will call the police to remove him.

it may be the only way to get through to him.

if he truly recognizes what he doing and truly wants help he will be at the GP tomorrow morning running thru the options.

i agree with the other posters -dont be lulled into teh "good times" thinking it makes it ok. it doesnt.

after we left my angry agressive ex - who had also been on citalopram adn diazepam - (three years ago now) my dd would lash out at things and people when stressed by whatever then she would say "i cant help it" - it took many months of persisting to help her understand she could help it and she could control it.

your H can also control it - he is an adult who can certainly control his behaviour, learn to take it out in other ways. funny how playing football which surely msut ahve triggers - missed penalties, referee gets it wrong etc? yet he stays calm? funny that....

your DC learning it's ok to behave like this.

read why does he do that and consider the anecdotes in that book and which relate to your H

LittleHouse just wanted to say how much I appreciated your post too.

I'm a man and by ex wife left me because of similar as described by OP. I think my journey since then has been similar to yours so it's great to see someone else out there talking about wanting to change and understand.

In terms of OP couldn't agree more with most of what's being said here. He sounds like he has issues with depression ("world's against me, life's unfair" - classic thinking in the downward spiral of depression which is hard to understand if you don't suffer from the illness).

One thing I would question though, just from my own personal experience, is saying that getting out will protect OP's DC. When my ex left me this was very much one of the reasons she was giving and it made sense. However it doesn't sound like DH of OP could be proved to be an actual danger to his DC in any compelling way so if he wants contact he'll get it - having been through the system my experience is that Court's aren't big on removing contact from either parent unless there is a very compelling reason relating directly to the DC.

So in my situation, 2 years after the split, my ex, happier in every other way (new partner, new house, etc) seems to find it very difficult that when our DS is with me she has no direct control. She frequently expresses worry and concern that I'll be influencing him with bad behaviours and in negative ways. I understand that and I can see the logic and I really don't mind - effectively it's a rod for my own back that I created. And I do write a blog and take pictures and talk about counselling I've done / am doing, etc to try and reassure her.

I guess I'm just saying that splitting up doesn't guarantee you can control your ex partner's behaviour or influence around a child unless you can persuade a Court that they really are a real danger to that child and remove all contact - and that's unlikely in this case I think. However splitting might just be the catalyst that forces the abusive partner to take responsibility and sort themselves out so they can work at being a good role model for their DC in future.

timehealsall I'm glad you find my painful journey of some use.

You said it has been two years since you split. Are you still single or have you found anyone new?
One question that bothers me greatly is whether I will be able to manage a new relationship without falling back into old patterns of behaviour. I never want to go back to the angry person I was, and most of my temper has been taken out on those I am close to. Ergo avoid close relationships and avoid anger. But that is a bit lonely. As I have recently met someone lovely I am worrying about getting close to him and relapsing. What has your experience been?

LittleHouse

I am still single.

I'd say for about a year and half I simply wasn't even ready to contemplate a new relationship for loads of practical and emotional reasons - one being exactly the same as your feeling - "would it even be worth it, though I understand what I've been doing to those close to me and begun to learn how to change that won't I just slip back and do it again".

But last 6 months I've had a few dalliances - nothing that's led to anything in the end, but fun and good for moving on anyway.

What I think now is who says with realisation, hard work (counselling, self exploration, etc) you can't overcome those tendencies? Is it any different to any other bad behaviour (cheating / dishonesty / addiction) - and by that I mean aren't all those other behaviours things that people do get on top of and learn to control at first through hard work and then by new learned behaviours which become more natural over time.

I've read on various message boards in the last few years an opinion that with abusive tendencies "a leopard can never change it's spots" - but I think that's quite harsh and there doesn't appear to be many other areas of life where people who make mistakes and want to learn from them are written off with quite the same vehemence - though totally understand that for people who've been exposed to those behaviours it can be very emotive and very damaging and so very hard to take any kind of leap of faith.

But what I've also read quite a lot, and heard from some work I did with Respect, is that if someone really admits to themselves that they've been abusive and wants to change they can as long as they work hard and - this bit I think being crucial - never, ever just decide they're now fixed and it's not something to worry about anymore.

The attitude in the paragraph above sounds like where your at and a process you've embraced right?

Plus you say it's people close to you as well as your ex, so since you started working to change has your temper flared with anyone close to you? Have you cut yourself off completely from family and close friends in case it does?

So I'd say if you've met someone lovely go for it and channel the worry you have positively to make sure you don't slip back. But if it starts to feel like you're not ready and you feel some of the triggers beginning to rear their ugly head take a step back and regroup a bit.

Relationship dynamics between different people can be different anyway - again I think you talked about realising through your therapy that perhaps aspects of your ex weren't quite right for your personality - that happens, it doesn't mean you're not taking responsibility unless you only blame him and twist the times you crossed lines into being "his fault for winding you up" - but you're clearly aware of how that part was your responsibility. That, I think, is quite a complex area - i.e. were you and your ex not well matched anyway if you take away the bad behaviours?

Anyway everything that's happened could mean that you're now better equipped to know if someone else will work with you, and I guess you just need to be honest about that with yourself if there are some clear red flags in the early stages (not easy because it is so blooming nice after you've hated yourself to find someone who makes you feel like perhaps your not the most evil person on the planet afterall!)

Sorry, bit over long, probably about me getting my own thoughts down for myself as well.