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Original poster

'Best' custody arrangements

43 replies

ninja · 08/04/2011 23:06

H ann I have been together 17 years and now he wants to leave. We have 2 girls aged 7 and 2

This isn't a great surprise as things have been bad on and off for a long time and to be honest he was horrible to live with recently (he says it's all my fault though).

He's said that I can stay in the house (and buy him out of his half somehow) but wants the kids half the time.

He initially came up with an arrangement that basically alternated days (which fits around his footy) he's revised this because he's realised that it doesn't work for weekends. Now he's proposing a 2 week timetable which even I'm struggling to get my head around.

I;m just looking for sdvice really as the most pain free solution for the kids (rather than just what'll fit around our hobbies).

I've been quite calm up until this point, but this is just really upsetting me. I'm lucky to be working only 3 days a wee, but I get up with the kids EVERY day and have tea with them every day and the thought of not doing that is awful. H isn't one for getting up in the mornings and is never there for tea during the week. I'm not sure how this is all suddenly going to change.

Any other advice about how to make it less painful for the kids would be gratefully received.

Thanks

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 08/04/2011 23:10

its residency these days

it needs to be whats best for the dc,not him. alternate days,never going to work

the norm is usually every other weekend and tea/sleepover midweek one day

does he have a place to take them to?

Original poster
ninja · 08/04/2011 23:23

Sorry, I had a feeling custody wasn't the right word but it's all new to me.

He's not left yet, not planning to until September after our summer holidays - I'm not sure if this is good or bad. He'll be getting a house so yes there will be somewhere close.

He's determined to have them 50 percent of the time and in many ways he's hands on, but in many he isn't. He's no idea about homework, activities that they do. Has never washed, cooked (unless I'm away). I know he can learn all this.

By the norm is usually every other weekend and tea/sleepover midweek one day do you mean that one parent has them during the week and one at the weekend and alternate the next week?

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 08/04/2011 23:25

the resident parent has them all week....except every second weekend they go to other parent.

sounds like he's looking for shared care

he'll have little maintenence to pay i guess if he goes for 50/50!!

balia · 08/04/2011 23:26

So you want to go on having tea with them every day and get them up in the morning? And your plan for an ongoing relationship with their father is?

IME the most pain-free route for the children is not having to feel guilt about loving and wanting to spend time with either parent. Everything is changing and it is important for the kids to know their father isn't leaving them. Have you considered mediation?

balia · 08/04/2011 23:29

Way to go, ILT! Obviously he only wants to spend 50% of the time with the kids so he can pay less maintenance! What a thoughtful, helpful and balanced way of looking at things.

Original poster
ninja · 08/04/2011 23:38

balia I'm not saying that I want that, just that's it hard to imagine not doing it when I've always been the one to do it - ie in 7 years I've never had a lie in.

Of course I wouldn't make the kids feel guilty about wanting to sepnd time with their dad.

Look, he told me he definitely wanted to leave on Monday so I'm just trying to get my head round it all. I'm sorry if I'm not making much sense

OP posts:
Original poster
ninja · 08/04/2011 23:40

Oh and I think 50-50 is fair until I start crying and I wasn't planning to ask for any maintenance except half of costs

OP posts:
oldenoughtowearpurple · 08/04/2011 23:45

You are their parent too - what do you think would work best? Firstly, how do you feel about 50:50? Do you think that's right for them? Secondly, what is practical. Instead of doing it on a weekly basis could you do something around term time vs holidays so it pans out over the year? Or one week on one off?

The whole thing about staying till September feels a but weird to me but it gives you time to sort this out and to start practicing so he can get a grip on all the activities and so forth.

oldenoughtowearpurple · 08/04/2011 23:49

Sorry I should have sent you some sympathy first - even though this is what you want it's sad and going to be hard. My xh insisted on 50:50 and stepped up to the mark when he had to. The kids have always known both their parents love them.

And you will soon get used to lie ins.

GypsyMoth · 08/04/2011 23:51

balia......op says he was trying to work THEM round his football[Hmm really wants them 50%?? his terms. makes me wonder why he's insisting on 50%

chopping and changing access to fit his football? where are the childrens best interests??

and he wants you to buy him out....you work 3 days.can you afford this?

Topoff · 09/04/2011 07:19

When a dad wants more time with his children why is it usually assumed he's doing it for the money?

As it is also said that Csa money is not enough to cover costs.

So how can it be for the money as it would be cheaper for him not to have the children more.

jumpyjack · 09/04/2011 07:30

Our children are 7 and 4, and ex-DH has them for one night and a day each weekend, plus cones to ours and cooks them dinner/does bath, homework, bed etc on Tuesday and Thursday. You do need to he pretty amicable for this to work, but it means the kids see him essentially every second day plus he gets some of the hard/tired end of things - not just good time Dad stuff.
I don't think this arrangement will last forever but in our first year of separation, this has worked well and both kids seem settled and happy.

jumpyjack · 09/04/2011 07:33

Sorry, spelling errors. He comes to ours. The kids sleep here 6 nights out of seven, but he sees them 3 - 4 days a week.

Original poster
ninja · 09/04/2011 08:15

Thanks, and thanks for the sympathy.

jumpyjack that sounds like an arrangement that would disrupt the kids the least. I can't see H going for it, but I can but try.

oldenoughtowearpurple that's what I'm trying to work out. DD1 loves H, well they both do but since dd2 was born she's closer to him than she was before and I suppose I don't see why I deserve to have them more than him. BUT I can't bear the thought of them being so disrupted especially at first.

ILT I have some family shares I could sell - was hoping they'd be a possible Uni fund or inheritance for the kids but yes I could buy him out. Things would be tight but I reckon I could do it. It's not about money for him he does love his kids.

I guess I'm just a bit sceptical as his arrangement means he'll see thm more than he does at the moment, and if he can make it home earlier and get up in the mornings why hasn't he done it before now?

OP posts:
Topoff · 09/04/2011 08:22

It's not unusual for the dad to change after a separation and become more involved.

And surely that's a good thing.

Original poster
ninja · 09/04/2011 08:33

It would be a great thing Topoff - I've been trying to encourage him to go down to 4 days for a long time as he doesn't like his job.

I guess it's just that as I've been flexible so I can pick up from school etc (so spend every evening that he's out working), he finishes work early on a day he goes to football (which he goes to stright from work and doesn't come back until after midnight), yet hasn't managed to make it back to have a meal with the kids ever on other nights.

I guess I need to try and separate my frustrations with him with what's best for the kids. I just feel so sad. I've been awake since 4.40am this morning just crying

OP posts:
SofiaAmes · 09/04/2011 08:40

Here in the usa shared care is the norm. It can be very successful if the parents stay on a friendly basis because it takes a lot of coordination between the two parents. Most families that I know that do the shared care, alternate on a weekly basis, with a cross visit in the middle of the week. Most agree that Monday after school is the best time to do the changeover. Kids are very flexible and will adapt to different rules and habits in the two households as long as the parents agree on the fundamentals.

You will not be doing your kids any favors if you disparage their father or make him worthless (even if you think he is) in their eyes.
Best of luck. It won't be easy, but you have the power to make it ok for your kids.

Original poster
ninja · 09/04/2011 08:55

Thanks Sophia - trust me it's not me who'll be making him worthless in their eyes. He regularly critcises me and shorts at me in front of them which is why we should probably split although I've tried suggesting counselling again (we were sacked from it last time as the counsellor found him too difficult to deal with)

OP posts:
buzzybee · 09/04/2011 09:31

Shared care is fairly common in NZ too. When I separated from ex we started by doing Mon-Tue him, Wed-Thur me, Fri-Sun alternating. This works fairly well as you have the same 2 days each week during the week so can plan activities around that. I always took DD to swimming lessons after school 1 day per week for example - and I don't think its that unreasonable to organise things in a way that works for a parent who has a regular commitment either. However the downside for DD was that she was chopping and changing regularly so in the end we moved to week on week off. TBH although that was probably better for her it was quite difficult for me - only seeing her every 7 days, and becoming a schizophrenic person, solo mum one week and single woman about town the next! Also you couldn't plan anything consistent from week to week - even something as simple as evening classes to meet some new people becomes difficult.
In your case maybe not having care of them 2 of the 3 days you work would be desirable so the first option could be better, particularly if you work consecutive days. I guess another alternative worth considering if you did think the DC would be better off doing week about would be to switch to working 5 short days - if your work would contemplate this? I did this for a while and it was lovely to be able to pick up DD from school every day on "my week".

IMO an absolute requirement for shared care is that both parents maintain a fully equipped bedroom with a full set of clothes, toys etc at each house and the only thing that moves between the two is school bag etc. What could be worse than having to pack up your things and move them every few days? Of course it needn't be a mirror image (DD had a trampoline at her Dad's house and I had a bicycle at mine) but you get the idea. You'd be surprised at how many fathers think its perfectly acceptable for the DC to sleep in the "spare room" or study - or in one case I know, share a room with the father.

In the end its a matter of finding the "least worst" solution since the reality is that there will need to be some sort of shared care and nothing will be perfect.

Most fathers seem able to step up to household chores when push comes to shove, not perfectly by any means, but OK.

I don't know how it works in the UK but in NZ even when share is 50:50 there can still be a payment from the parent earning more to the parent earning less.

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 09/04/2011 09:54

OK, shared care and negotiation and all that sort of thing work fine when both parents are reasonable people who are putting the DCs' interests first.
However, a man who is putting his hobbies first, who is verbally abusive to you to the point that a couples counseller refused to continue seeing you and who is trying to structure a plan for access that is all about his needs, is not going to be reasonable. So you are going to need to put everything on a formal, legal footing. Do not be tempted to give him what he wants for the sake of keeping the peace, he will find some other way to upset you. And given that he has told you the relationship is over, it's not exactly reasonable, fair and generous of him to expect you to continue servicing him domestically while he does what he likes. If he's leaving, he should be moving out ASAP.
Consult a solicitor, love. This man is demonstrating clearly that he's a selfish prick, so you need independent impartial advice.

StewieGriffinsMom · 09/04/2011 09:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mamas12 · 09/04/2011 10:09

forget about shard councelling and mediation. You need to see someone at CAB and sort out exactly how you can afford to buy him out and what exactly he will contribute.
He does sound as if it's all about him, but what about you
The dcs are paramount but I think you know that.

Come up with your own well researched and considered child friendly plan with the help of profesional and not him okay
He is not your friend any more (sad)

Smum99 · 09/04/2011 12:14

I think you have had some great positive advice from people with experience in countries who have developed 50:50 care. Speaking from my experience reducing the hostility between parents is the best outcome for the children.

Whilst some are recommending a tough line I think it's your decision on how you approach this. What is your instinct? A couple breaking up are often both hurting and often hurt each other through the divorce process. You can also be at different stages of grieving which makes it hard to communciate. You are clearly feeling very sad which is understandable. The hardest thing to do when separating is to try to park those high emotions (which are natural) whilst you sort out the practical matters like finances and childcare. If you feel emotions are too high then outside help i.e mediation or solicitor (member of resolution) is helpful as they will steer you through the process.

Remember what plans you make to children can alter as the children get older. What is right now for a 7 year will change by the time they are at secondary age so keeping a dialogue open helps to shape the future for your children. The breakup of a marriage does involves losses..lots of them. Loss of the partnership, loss of financial assets (i.e The uni fund), loss of time with with your children, loss of the 'idea' of a happy family for your children.

But despite the losses there is life after divorce - ask many posters here - many are much, much happier than before. The children can also be happy. My DD is defintely someone who feels she's had a happy childhood despite her parents separting.

There is a way through this and life will get better.

atswimtwolengths · 09/04/2011 12:43

OP, I would suggest to him that he starts as he means to go on. So that means getting up NOW with the children, cooking some of their meals NOW and taking them/picking them up from events.

Is he saying that if you need to do something on the night he plays football that he won't have the children? Is he expecting you to work around his timetable?

I know shared care can work; I know a couple who do 3 days on, 3 days off, with the mum always taking the child to school, but that works because the parents are committed to making it work and don't insult each other.

Your husband sounds like he would be a nightmare to negotiate with, to be honest.

ChaoticAngelofDenial · 09/04/2011 12:47

I agree with SGB. This man isn't interested in his kids best interest, he's interested in his own.

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