It doesn't rain, it POURS.

[pie]

Well things are even less jolly than usual in the pie house.

DH is American, lives here. He is INCREDIBLY close to his grandparents, they raised him basically. His grandma is currently in hospital for what must be about the 10th time with Congestive Heart Failure, which she was first diagnosed with 7 years ago. In short she is in all likelyhood dying.

The baby is coming in 2 weeks. I told him that as soon as the baby is born I want him to go home for a couple of weeks to spend some time with his folks. I've spoken to my mum, and I can stay with her for a bit.

I really think that he should say his goodbyes, if you will.

He point blank refuses. He says that if he goes he won't be coming back as saying goodbye to his grandparents again will just be too hard. The next time he goes back it will be for good. Of course this hurts to hear, but I told him I think that he is cutting off his nose to spite his face, and that 10 years down the line he will regret not seeing his grandma again, and that of course he will come back, though of course it will be hard to leave them.

I don't know if I should push the point anymore though...if he is saying no, should I just leave it?

Has anyone ever regretted not seeing a loved one when they knew it might be the last time?

He is withdrawn and miserable. I feel totally useless, and racked with guilt that I'm having a baby, that he moved here for me, and crap for knowing that he really thinks that he wouldn't be able to leave his family there for his family here.

Sorry Pie, I don't quite understand the bit about
"if he goes he won't be coming back as saying goodbye to his grandparents again will just be too hard" Does he mean that he will leave you and stay over there?

I suspect he is just very upset about his grandma and that he is taking it out on you. He has a lot of other stuff on his plate (having a baby in 2 weeks, months of your SPD which must be hard on him too (though of course much worse for you ))

When you have so many huge events happening in your life it can all get too much and you can sort of lose it, get everything out of perspective etc. Once the baby is born he will be able to think more clearly I'm sure and he will prob decide to visit.

I wouldn't push it if I were you. Just tell him that if he wants to go it's fine and that you are there for him.

HTH

Countess, that is what he means, that if he goes back saying goodbye will be too hard, so he will stay there...

I think you're right about not pushing him, but I'm trying to strike some sort of balance between that and letting him know that it REALLY is ok for him to go. He thinks I'm lying or that I can't cope and that I say one thing and mean another.

hi pie,is really difficult isnt it,your dh is probably scared that it will be the last time he sees his grandmother alive and probably thinks that if he doesnt go nothing will happen to her,i can understand his homesickness as i have it too and i never want to come back when i go to spain so i live with the hope that we'll move there one day,do you have any intention of moving to america?the thing is if you do you'll be the one that's homesick so very hard to find a compromise without your dh thinking that that's it he will live in england for ever,i will make him go after the baby is born i'm sure he'll miss you all and wants to come back as soon as possible but if he doesn`t go and his grandmother dies he'll resent you even tho is not your fault,good luck

It sounds to me like he is just very upset and behaves a little childish. I think you have done the right thing in offering him to go back to see his grandma once the baby is born. I am not sure if I would have been that generous. I really need my dh here when I have a new baby in the house. It is hard being far away from his family, but his main family is you and his child! I don't want to sound offensive, but grandparents dying is a fact of life. People get old and they die. It's hardly a tragedy. Sorry to be so blunt, but although I can see why he is upset, he shouldn't take it out on you and he should be grown-up enough to deal with this as an adult. I think he is lucky to have had his grandparents around for this long!

Fairymum, his grandma is bascially his mum, infact if his mum were dying I don't think he would get that upset over it. She is quite young, only 64 or so. Before he moved here he was living with them, taking care of them. They took him in when his mum wasn't willing to be there for him, so I think he feels like he owes them.

I do think that he should realise that we here are his 'first'family if you will.

whymummy, eventually we will move over there, but it will be hard, because as close as he is to his grandparents he knows I'm a million times closer to my mum, and DD calls her 'my other mummy' (which oddly doesn't bother me!!). The main reason though is money, esp medical insurance, I have so many health problems that the insurance premium would go through the roof, so the move is a very distant thing. Ahh the land of the free, but only if you can pay huh?

What a tricky situation, pie. Although I do understand how upset your dh is, it is wrong of him to say these hurtful things to you. Why don't you ask him exactly what he expects you to do? Perhaps then he will see that you are doing everything in your power to support him and that this situation is nobody's fault. Could you put it to him that it will not help anyone if you allow the difficulties you are facing at the moment to drive a wedge between you? Tell him you will be able to deal with whatever life throws at you if you stand strong together. Good luck.

Pie ... I kind of see where your DH is coming from.
I am in NZ (as you know) with DH (who is dual nationality Brit/kiwi). His parents live here - and are the crappest parents/grandparents in the world. My family is in the UK ... and I am very close to them and suffer greatly from homesickness - no, not homesickness, as I don't miss England that much (who could with NZ on your doorstep) but what I call 'Peoplesickness'. I miss my family (particularly my parents and my sister) so much that it is a physical pain. I sometimes cry myself to sleep about it as there is nothing I can do about it ... our life (my life with my husband and son) is here and this is the path we have chosen.
However ... my DH knows that if my parents got sick I would be on the first plane back to the UK and would stay there until it was 'over' ... ie if they got better or if they ... well ... you know what I mean.
Last week a very close friend of mine's dad died very suddenly while on holiday - she never got a chance to say goodbye. In January my best friend's mother died while my friend was on her honeymoon - she tried to get home but was 3 hours too late. I don't know if I could bear that ... and I pray daily that if my parents got sick that I would be given enough time to get back to see them.
What I am saying is that your DH is probably doing the 'bloke' thing of 'I'm OK ... I don't need to go back' ... but he is torn between his life with you and his children and the people that nurtured him ... he won't leave you but he obviously doesn't want to be put in a position where he will not 'want' to come back to the UK even though he feels he must for you and the children.
Not sure if I am making much sense here but I do understand where you DH is in this.
I don't think you should push it ... let him deal with it in his way ... let him know that he can go if he wants to but don't make him go ... if he is adamant that he doesn't want to ...
Hope that makes a bit of sense to you ...
Hugs {{{{{}}}}}

pie I agree with everyone here.He must be distraught but at the same time I think he is being a little bit selfish in saying them words to you. Basically IMO he has put you in a kind of limbo coz you will never know whether he will come back or not if he goes over to US.This is very unfair to you and he needs to grow up a bit.
I can understand his loyalty, and please dont get me wrong but he should be putting you and the baby first on the list, not giving you more worries.
My ex husband left his family in Australia to be here with me.(We met when I lived over there) Not once did he ever regret living here with me, it was never an issue.Not even when we were divorcing did he say anything like that to me etc.
Hope you sort this out.

Pie,

I can identify with what's happening to you - as you may know my Mother-in-Law is very ill (we nearly lost her last week and she is currently gravely ill in hospital).

My DH is an only child and his mum lives in South Africa. I have watched him go through all the stages of trying to deal with this from abroad and without a doubt the most difficult aspect has to be the feelings of inadequacy about caring for or being there for his mum. I have spent the whole weekend trying to persuade him to go to South Africa straight away but he maintains that he is booked to go over on the 10th October so that's what he will stick to. I think that he is afraid to go, afraid of what he will find and ultimately afraid of saying goodbye. Perhaps your husband is feeling the same way.

I really know what you mean about feeling useless and guilty - we are in the same boat, if it weren't for me, DH would definitely be living in South Africa.

I have realised that I have to respect his decision. I have calmly told him why I think he should go and reiterated that I think it is best for everybody, but I can't force him.

Try to give your DH space to make up his own mind but make sure he knows that you will support him should he choose to go. His refusal to go unless he doesn't come back is just his way of dealing with things right now and it will pass.

HTH

men why do they always say crap like that? Poor you pie. Do agree with everyone else though that he is most probably just upset and this is his way of showing it. You have both got alot on your plate at the moment and his Grans illness is most probably just making it worse I agree with everyone else though about not pushing him to go because at the end of the day that is his decision. Take care of youself.

Thank you so much everyone for the support.

DH has never been great at dealing with difficult situations, he is very much of the stick your head in the sand school of thought, where as if the situations were reversed I would be on the first flight. I guess we deal with things very differently.

I think that the worst thing is that he is being very hurtful towards me, his comments about not being able to leave and come back here make me feel so second rate, but he thinks he is just being honest.

TBH pie I think once the baby is born it may add a bit more perspective to his life with you. I dont think my dh grew up until we had our first either.

I think you're right fio, the terrible thing about that though is that even though he says he plans to adopt DD, that he thinks of her as his own (she's 4, Dh and I have been together for 3 years and she has had not contact with bio dad for years) I think that he will find it different with this baby...then I start getting all defensive and aggressive with him, that DD and I alone aren't enough, and that he can't love her as much as he says he does. Different issue though I guess!

Pie, I just wanted to send you love and hugs. So I am.

Pie so sorry you are having a hard time, now of all times.
Do you think there is the slightest chance he feels in some confused way offended by your willingness to let him go over as soon as the baby is born? It maybe makes him feel dispensible or something(I do think you are 100% right in telling him to go)
I know that when my dh acts odd/hurtful there is often some weird thought process behind it which he eventually tells me ( not that it ever makes sense )

I think Jasper may have a point. This baby has been nothing but grief for him so far - that's not to say it won't be joy when it comes but I don't think most men feel attached like we do to an unborn baby and he must hate what it has done to you and your life together so far, in terms of your pain and disability & the rows you've been having (you say you have been defensive and aggressive) etc - and now you are positively pushing him to leave when the baby is born! Of course, you are only doing this out of love, but TBH if my dh kept on at me to leave the minute our child was born, I would feel strange about it. This is all pure conjecture, but maybe he feels hurt (albeit totally unjustly) and thinks that you plan to replace him with your mother and is hurt and jealous and so is using his family as weapon against you. I think you really need to talk about this and to tell him that you want him with you, that you love him and that your mum will be a poor substitute for him, but that if he has to go, you will accept and support this... I don't know, maybe you've already told him this and I've got this totally wrong, but it seems like a possible explanation to me. Also, you say you feel he will love the new baby in a different way to your dd - that's in your head, not his. Please don't let it come between you. This baby may well be the chance to truly cement you as a family. The fact that my stepdaughter and my son share the same blood, the same genes makes us feel more like a family, not less. Even if dh and I divorced (God forbid) she will still be my family because she is my son's sister. Let him have a chance to be a family with you. I feel for you so much as you have been through so much. I hope things get better for you soon. Don't push him away now, not even for his own good, I think his statement sounds hurtful, but the basic message is, "I'm not leaving you" which doesn't sound unloving to me.

oh dear. its a hard one. my ex has DCM which is in simple terms is heart failure. he was 1st disagnoised this 18months ago. he spends most days with me and his dd's. i know that one day he wont be here. atm he is stable, but if i didnt see him or speak to him everyday i wold regret it when the time comes when he isnt here. i would make it clear to your dh that he should go over to see his grandma, that you are not replacing him, u'd love him here with u, but he should see her. it may not be the last time, some of the drugs they use these days are very good. dont let this split u up, i'm sure that deep down he is hurting at the thought of losing his grandma and that he doesnt want to lose u too.

Big hugs Pie.

Ghosty - know what you mean about having the less good set of grandparents in NZ and the decent ones in the UK. Still overall our life here is better than we could have had in the UK, it frustrates me though that they have their grandson on their doorstep and don't seem to really appreciate it.

Sorry Pie for borrowing your thread, but just wanted to say that to Ghosty.

Thanks bobthebaby ... much appreciated ...

just a thought...

pie, is there any way that you could go over to the States with your dh for a short while, leaving your dd with your mum? (Or even taking her too?). If you left it for a month or so after the baby is born (does she have that long?)you may feel up to travelling, and having you with him might make him realise that he can't not return.

My dh's mum was very ill and died a few weeks after dd was born. Although I wasn't coping very well (pnd, bf difficulties)I made him go to be with her for the last few days. He came back the instant it was over, but then felt awful for abandoning his father. It occurred to me afterwards that it would have been so much easier if we had gone over together- I would have had help nearby, and he would have less to worry about.

I think Tissy has a good point, it had crossed my mind too. Tiny babies are very portable, and perhaps this move would help your dh to be able to choose to go without feeling he is letting you down. And wouldn't his grandmother enjoy meeting her great-grandchild before she dies?

Agree with Tissy. If you are up to it, and your SPD is much better maybe you can all go to the US to see his family and introduce her to her great grandchild? What a lovely idea.

I would dearly love to go with DH, but as it is if he goes will will have to borrow the money for his ticket, and I have been told that the inflamation from having the baby will take at leat 6 weeks to go down and then I'm looking at about 6 months before I walk unaided. Of course that latter is the worst case senario, but I wouldn't want to borrow the money and book a ticket and then not go, because my doctor actually turns out to be right!

Grandma is desperate to meet DD and the new baby though.

Its not the fact that he is not willing to leave me here and put himself in a position where leaving his folks is hard. Its the fact that he tells me I'm the reason he is not going...don't know if that makes sense. But basically he is putting the responsibility of not going on me. Years down the line will he turn round and say he didn't go because of me? When he is already saying it now maybe the resentment will build.

I know I'm worrying too much about what might happen, but DH doesn' worry about what might happen at all.

Its unlikely (but not impossible) that he feels pushed out by my suggestion, he seems to genuinely think that if he goes leaving would be too hard, that by going he will be putting our marriage on the line. I think he's stronger than that, and that he needs to say goodbye.

I'm not going to mention it again to him though, he knows what I think, he knows that he can go. Just wish he knew that he would come back

could you maybe write him a nice letter explaining how much you love him and why it's OK for him to go, and it's his decision, you'll support him whatever he wants to do? Sometimes a different approach might help...