Strong Suspicions P is cheating. Anyone know how to get evidence?

[agentofevolution]

I suspect my P of cheating. We have not had the best relationship over the past couple of years (been together 7 years and 2 DCs), but he was never secretive before. Now he is.

He used to leave his phone lying around but now he rarely does.It was never locked before.
When I asked him to use his phone for a minute as mine had ran out of credit he handed me the phone but it was key-locked (you have to put in a password to get into ANYTHING even though it's on, not just locked where you press star key down or something). I had to hand it back for him to put in password etc. I thought to myself why on earth would you set it up so you have to put a code in everytime you view a message, set alarm, send a message, make a call etc. It would surely be too much hassle unless you had something to hide.

I confronted him about this and he swore he is not up to anything. However he was a bit defensive, sort of "none of your business why I did it". He said he would take the keylock off, and he did.

This weekend we both went out in the evening. I headed home whilst he went to the takeaway for some late night food.
I called him about the order and he also text me during the ten minutes he was away.
So when we came in he fell asleep on couch as he was a bit drunk I took the opportunity to look at the phone. EVERYTHING was wiped. All calls all texts , even the ones I sent him 5 mins before he came in.

I checked every night since when he has come in from work and every text and call log deleted despite me having texted (deliberately) 5 mins before he gets in.

Therefore he must be making a habit of deleting everything on phone immediately before he gets in house.

He never used to delete everything until it was completely full. In 7 years .

He works nights/backshifts and I work days. We do go out separately. He could sneak off work for a few hours due to the nature of his job and is home during the day (to sleep) before he picks the DC up from school, so I guess he would have the opportunity here and there.

I hope I don't get flamed for asking for advice on how to get into his phone or find out one way or another. What did you do to get evidence or to exclude an affair?

I do not want to confront him again as he may just get better at hiding it if he is cheating.

I'm generally not a paranoid person, believe it or not but the phone thing is very very un-usual for him.

Any advice MNer's?

Ii it a contract phone? Does it have on-line billing? How about getting hold of that?

I think if you have got to the point where you do not trust him and he is being secretive, then the relationship is doomed anyway.

Online statements?

Sorry for a really unhelpful comment but has anyone else noticed the volume of threads like this currently? Is it something in the water, the time of year?

Online bills
Email accounts
Online banking
Car
Pockets

How did people conduct affairs before the invention of the mobile phone? Or did they just not get caught?

I found a way with my Blackberry that you can view activity even if the actual call or text has been deleted but I've no idea if you can do it on other phones or if all history has been deleted. Also, you need to know the contact.

But try it anyway - go to the contacts list and scroll to one of them. Click and view the activity log. I have uncovered bits and pieces using this method in the past.

Hope you get answers one way or the other - not knowing is awful.

No it's just a bog standard pay-as-you-go.

No online bills. He doesn't even have facebook as far as I know. He has internet access though (his laptop in our house) but that has a password to get into it.

He doesn't do online banking and statements don't show anything unusual.

I don't drive and don't ask him for lifts during the day as he is sleeping for nightshift and I'm already at work 9-5 anyway. I ask him to pick things up from the shops if it's more than I can carry. We don't usually use the car much together unless it's a family day out or something. I will try to get the keys when he is sleeping or something and take a look in it when parked outside.

I have checked all pockets I can, nothing unusual.

Thanks for the advice, keep it coming. I feel so stupid doing this, I always used to trust him, but since the out-of-character phone locking and deleting I just can't and want to know.

Car!! Especially if you dont normally use it.

Check everywhere. Not just the door pockets and glove box but take time to have a good rummage under seats etc. Lift foot mats etc and see if anywhere looks tampered with. I think there was a Mumsnetter on here a while ago that found condoms inher DHs car hidden in the door panels or behind the rear lights in the boot or somewhere bizarely obscure. Check the car mileage - log it and see if it tallies with where you know he drives to etc. Make a log of this. Use RAC route planner to find exact proper mileage but allow some leeway for the fact he may deviate from the recommended route anyway.

I have a mate who went through this a few years ago. After weeks of finding nothing she decided to just watch her husband and his routine in the house. Sounds daft - but that was where he came unstuck. She found it odd that he spent ages in the loo when he thought she was sleep - behind the bath panel was a stash of stuff all evidence pointing towards an affair. he had a seperate sim card for his phone there.

Try calling him at random times (always have an excuse to do so) and see how he responds. Suggest going somewhere with him he normally goes alone - again watch his reaction - do this spur of the moment not days in advance - the idea is to catch him by surprise and watch his reaction.

Receipts and bank statements. Any odd transactions, cash withdrawals. Check his wallet, pockets and car for receipts. Do they tally with where he has told you he has been and when?

Its horrid being in limbo. Some may say just confront him but I understand the need to not do this in the first instance.

Good luck - I hope its all innocent stuff and that you dont uncover anything nasty.

If you look at the call-history, or log of how many texts have been sent/received, won't that tell you a bit? Not who, but unusual activity?

I mean, call history of number of minutes used.

what lollybrolly said

Thanks so much for that great info Lolly (-:

The car idea is a good one as because I don't drive I don't use it on my own. He leaves his keys lying around so one night he's backshift (until 11pm) I will wait til he's asleep and have a good look in there.

I already call him at random times. 90% of times he will answer but sometimes the phone is off ("no battery" or "was driving") or rings out. I can't really suggest going places with him he normally goes alone as we plan in advance to get a babysitter to go out together, but when one of us wants to go out alone/with friends the other one is at home with kids, so if he was 'going out with friends' I'd be at home with kids. However I suppose I could get a babysitter and "surprise" him that I can come all of a sudden now.

Have checked receipts and bank statements but nothing unusual or not coinciding with where he has said he's been. Although he very rarely leaves receipts lying around, or statements. Statements go to his parents as he didn't tell the bank when we moved in 5 years ago. His other mail comes here though. hmm. there are a few statements lying around which have ended up here but no new ones.

Will check car at first opportunity x

Thanks Clam, I had a look at that when I got hold of phone, but wouldn't it be difficult to tell how much minutes a day could have been 'normal' and how many were 'abnormal' since he scrubs all call list?

Well I guess it depends on your DH. Mine, for instance currently uses his phone about twice a month, usually to call me. If his call counter suddenly showed a massive increase, it would tell a story. But that's going to vary according to individual circumstances.

When he phones his friends or his parents or me the calls are usually short (under 4 minutes or so) so I suppose if it went up dramatically then yes I could assume that something funny is going on

What does he do with his mobile at night? when he showers?

A common theme for cheating partners is their reluctance to be away from their phone, taking it into the bathroom with them, sleeping with it under the pillow etc.

At night he puts it on the window ledge beside his side of the bed. He has always done that, so that's one good sign. However because his side is backed up against the window I'd need to clamber over him to get the phone and he would maybe wake up unless drunk or something.

He showers during the day, as he is on different shifts from me, so I'm very rarely in when he showers. He doesn't take it to the toilet with him, but it is generally in is pocket when he comes in, and gets transferred from the jeans pocket to the bed when he gets in bed.

Funny you say that, when my ex was cheating he actually slept with his phone UNDER THE PILLOW IN THE PILLOW CASE! It was sooooo obvious what was going on but I was in denial for ages. Maybe the same as now. I keep telling myself "he wouldn't do that" but then I think him scrubbing everything off phone every night 5 mins before he walks in the door and then keylocking it )-:

I really feel for you. Really wish I could offer a quick solution. I helped a close friend through a truely awful time suspecting her husband was cheating and it was a pretty soul destroying time for her.

We did some mad and strange things between the 2 of us to try ad catch him out as there was no way she could afford to hire a private investigator. In the end we did catch him out and he had been cheating.

Some would say just confront him but few cheaters admit to more than they have to. Once he established the lack of evidence you have - he could easily potentially lie his way out of it (assuming he is up to no good). He would then tighten up his habits and make it harder for you to prove otherwise.

Its a hard call. Try and be alert and start keeping track of certain things now. try not become to obsessed with this - it could easily make you very bitter.

May I suggest that if you search his car at night (because I have helped my friend do this) that you have a good torch and a very plausible excuse for looking in there in case he sees you - perhaps say you have lost something small and precious - item of jewellery etc. You could mention you have mislaid it beforehand, then if you get "caught" say you could not sleep stressing about the loss and just had to look in case you lost it when you were in the car last or something similar.

Sending you my best wishes - I would also like to say that where you can be positive. Its good to see you quite level headed in your previous post and say that he has always left his phone besides the bed. Its very easy to see something suspicious in all he does when looking for clues - so just check yourself every now again on your thought process.

Have no useful advice to add but I hope you find out either way. Maybe - hopefully - you are just worrying over nothing because of what happened with your ex? Take care and sorry you're going through this x

What about his mileage? Do you know how far he "should" drive in a day? And therefore if he's doing more than normal by nipping off to secret liaisons during his breaks?

Thanks Lolly and Freudian

I had concocted the exact same plan re- the jewellery thing! Right down to 'mentioning' I had lost my favourite gold earring on my recent work night out when he picked me up.

Both my 2 previous serious relationships were serial cheats, but they seem so different to P (EX#1 was such a flirt and also I later found out was bi-sexual too, EX#2 was into some weird hardcore porn and has a habit of 'befriending' only girls in bad relationships and telling them he would treat them much better etc) I just can't see current P being like this at all, but I suppose everyone has the capacity.

We have had issues, but then many do -

My resentment at him being impractical and irresponsible at times and putting friends before our family time (but admittedly rarely), and that I don't feel he was very supportive when I had a MC last year. Me hating his toxic mother (would be another thread!)

His resentment and genuinely feeling rejected (I can see the upset in his face and see says he feels 'useless' to me) that I don't want sex as much because of the issues and also because we are like passing ships in the night for 6 days out of 7 cause of work - doesn't really make me in the mood.

We only see each other at "change-over children" time on 6 days out of 7 as he works 6 nights 7pm-4am and I work 6 days 9-5 (in at 6, and he leaves 6.15). At least we have the same day off! This changing of hours came about because his mother suddenly decided she did not want to look after DC2 whilst we worked any more, leaving us in a childcare lurch. She will happily have both DC's on one day/night at the weekend if we are going out which I guess is good, but I hate how she just abruptly stopped looking after DC2 during the week leaving me with no time to find a replacement and P having to take nightshift. If she was finding it too hard, at least give me some notice. Instead she just one day decided and the next day refused to take DC. Paying for childcare would mean my income would be nearly cancelled out and I love my job and we need the money, so it will just have to be the way it is until the youngest is in school.

OMG, I just realised I have rambled on A LOT. Don't think I have taken a proper inspection of our relationship for a long time...I must be going overboard now!

Thanks Clam, that would be a good suggestion but due to the nature of his work his mileage does vary greatly

Apart from putting a pin on his phone is there anything else that has made you suspicious?

I know that isn't a small thing, but...... is that it for now? Do you feel close and get on well on your one day off together?

You can find lots of clues (especially with hindsight) about cheating but it is really hard to find definite proof.

Many clues have already been mentioned. Him behaving furtively, being in a bad mood, spending time alone. Dressing differently, buying more clothes, listening to different music. Using different expressions. Swearing more. Wanting less sex, no sex, different sex or even more sex (probably unusual, that one). Kissing differently. Using the computer more or at odd times. Sleeping badly. Shutting the computer down suddenly. Behaving oddly with the phone (as in your case). Going out for walks. Changing the time of going to or returning from work, including returning unexpectedly early as well as late.

But unless they admit it, or you actually find texts etc, it is nearly impossible to prove the infidelity.

I caught my husband out through his Oyster card, which I had registered online so he didn't have to keep topping it up with payments for tube travel. I realised you could look at the journey history. He had made some very long trips to an obscure bit of London in his lunch hour...

Don't forget not all cheaters use texts and emails. Skype is free and (assuming you set it not to keep history) leaves no trace of illicit chats.