strategies to cope with DH's jealousy

[ScarletA]

I have been reading the threads about jealousy and have found them enormously helpful in understanding my DH's jealousy. I always suspected it was due to his childhood and it seems I was right. The problem is - getting him to recognise and 'own' his jealousy so that we can get help with it. That's what I was hoping to get help with.

He is not anything like some of the ultra controlling and scary men I've read on threads today - which kind of made me not want to post because I feel a bit of a fraud. But he gets jealous in social situations and it is getting steadily worse. Now I feel we cannot go out together (to parties, pubs, gigs etc) because it invariably ends in what i call 'the walk of shame' on the way home where I am accused of flirting, fancying someone, talking him down, being a bad person in X Y and Z respect etc.

We have a good social life but it is gradually being curtailed because of this. I suspect his jealousy is always there under the surface but he never says anything about it, he manages to control it. But when he drinks, he doesn't manage it at all. I can actually predict how he will behave - 2 pints is usually 'safe' but any more and he's off.

I love him utterly and completely. We are generally happy in most other respects, have been together nearly 13 years and have 2 lovely kids. He does not go through my phone or check up on me or anything like that, he is not a controlling man in this respect - it's just in social situations where he drinks.

Maybe people will think 'well, just don't go out together, socialise separately' but that just makes me feel sad. Although to be honest, it's kind of what we do now anyway .

I read today that I should be supportive and reassuring when he's feeling jealous. But it's quite hard for me to do when I have been accused of things that I haven't done. I just feel angry or bored or fed up and that's the kind of response he gets. Which apparently will just make him feel worse...

What can I do to help him help himself?

Glad it's not just me!

Zikes - yes, you are right. I must find a good time to raise at least the beginning of the subject with him. The problem is always this; when we've had a row, after 24 hours he's so lovely to me, or things are just going back to normal and everyone is happy, that it feels counterintuitive to start poking the sleeping lions, if you see what I mean. Am I a coward?

I on the other hand am a Model Citizen when I am drunk...

No not a coward, it's a hard thing to do. Perhaps if you are planning an evening out together you should try to raise it a few days before. Or do some sneaky shifting of conversational topics to sensitive things so you can steer it round...

at Model Citizen

I think you need to talk about this not when you're on your evening out.
Eg perhaps a chat before you go out, about how much you love him and are looking forward to a fun evening but that you will also talk to other people and you hope he doesn't spoil it with irrational jealousy, then if or when he does (btw I would try at all costs to avoid a "walk of shame" it sounds terrible) then another calm talk the day after about what upset him and why (and also why it isn't reasonable).
This is very much what I do with the children if we're going somewhere that could be difficult.

It seems to me that you are already going out of your way to avoid upsetting him (you are doing things that would not occur to me). As you are trying hard, could you get him to agree to some nights out with less than 2 pints so that he can see the difference in his behaviour? Again, talk it through before (maybe even during if he is being reasonable) and after.
I think for both of your sakes though, you need to raise it as a major issue of HIS behaviour that HE needs to work on and that if he is willing to try then you will do everything you can to help him so that you can both enjoy evenings out.

Model Citizen, eh?

No, seriously, I can be a really nasty drunk. I've been really awful to my dh in the past while drunk, and so I knocked it on the head.

I think the lovely 24 hours are him compensating for how he's behaved, but it doesn't make up for it really or stop it happening again.

I can totally understand why you wouldn't want to bring it up again, but he needs to stop what he's doing.

Hillyhilly - good tips there. It is daunting to wave the old 'we need councelling' flag again but you said has given me something practical to be getting on with. We do have another social event coming up [grips seat] and it would definitely be an idea to have a chat beforehand.

And I promise all of you lovely people that I will poke the sleeping lion. Gently.

okay scarlet, I have so much to say on this..I have posted quite a few times abotu jealousy on mumsnet, because I suffered from it in an enormous way for a long time, and I used to behave like your DH.

However - what saved me was two things. Firstly my own decision that I didn't want to live with it any more and therefore choosing (note, my decision, nobody elses) to spend a year having serious therapy on my own. It was bloody hard work - and for that reason teh decision to have therapy has to come from the person who has it.

Secondly - I met my partner who was a combination of supportive but very very no nonsence.

It is NOT your job to comfort your partner and reassure him every single time he beahves likes this. He is responsible for how he acts and what he says and does, just as I was when I had this issue.

It is your role as his partner to be supportive IF HE IS TRYING TO RESOLVE IT HIMSELF. sorry for capitals but really want to stress that.

My partenr, who is my soulmate, has absolutely no interest in making me feel better if I make a fuss about him talking to someone - he has zero tolerance of it. However, when I first met him we had long talks about my insecurity and he was deeply and amazingly supportive of my battle against jealousy.

I have totally overcome it - but seriously, part of the way that I came to realise I needed therapy was because I saw other people had no time for it and would not tolerate it.

You are not helping him by giving in to it.

You need to sit down with him and say that you will no longer tolerate him talking to you like that - focus very much on his behaviour.

One key thing I read that helped me was 'you may not be able to help having jealous FEELINGS but you can always help ACTING in a jealous way.' After I started to see that I was really in control , that was the first step to complete self change.

please, do not ever again put up with him glaring at you/ harassing you/ questioning you.

A tip - my partner, in the beginning, used to get that kind of crap from me! He would say clearly 'you are being really silly and I'm not interested in talking about this.'

I have to stress, he was not being dismissive of my childhood issues etc as we had endlessly talked about them - and he was, in a calm setting, always prepared to talk through my fears. But day to day he would not pander to my niggling and nagging...it worked. I simply stopped and following that, because I was acting differently the thoughts went away too.

Tell him you are there for him if he wants to change, but otherwise you are simply going to stop tolerating it.

It is appalling that he is making you fear talking to people - Im afraid I do pick up controlling issues in what you say. I totally understand his fears, but you cannot be his nurse/ sort his life out unless he chooses to engage.

happy to talk more about the things I did to help myself overcome this if you want to PM me...

Put your foot down NOW and HARD. Stop indulging the silly bastard. HE is the one in the wrong. Tell him once and for all that though you have no intention of having sex with anyone else, you will not be treated like this any more and that he either sorts himself out or you will bin him. ANd mean it.
The thing with irrationally jealous people is that placating them only makes them more and more demanding. Because it's not actually about you at all, it's about their inadequacy and therefore the only person who can fix a jealous, selfish tosspot is the jealous selfish tosspot him/herself. And if such a person won't acknowledge the fault and try to get over it, then the only thing to do is dump him/her unless you want to spend the rest of your life in a steadily shrinking prison.

I have to say, the more that you tell us about this situation, the more I think you do need to address it sooner rather than later. He clearly doesn't mean to be controlling, but that is what is happening here and it sounds to me like it's already escalating and has been over a long period of time.

Waterrat has some good advice. Also, if you find yourself wanting to change your behaviour because you can sense his tension, maybe you should call him on it in public: "haha, DH - are you cross I'm talking to Dave? Come on - Dave, tell him we're simply talking about the DC's schooling". The fact that he hides how he feels from everyone else shows that he knows he is in the wrong, and in my opinion, also that he thinks he has the right to simply impose his views on you even though they're ridiculous. Also, maybe it will show him that you won't continue to indulge him by pretending things are fine when they aren't.

mm...not sure I agree with the idea of drawing attention to it - although I can see what you mean about stopping it being hidden. That seems uneccesarily confrontational - I would HATE it if my partner humiliated me by telling people that I was feeling jealous. that would be really making things rather mean, and there is no need to do that.

spring chicken, I agree with you to a certain extent - in the end, jealousy is a form of anxiety - and a belief that the only way to combat that anxiety is to control what other people do. in this sense its a completely false belief because actually it doesn't help make the jealous person feel secure - it makes them feel more insecure, because their need is a bottomless void.

also - because they are feeding that void they are making themselves feel shit.

I do think its because of childhood and I feel sorry for people who genuinely want to change, because I was very much that person. And I feel sorry for jealous people who haven't yet worked out how damaging their behaviour is - to themselves.

BUT - I completely agree that pandering to it is absolutely not the answer. These people need a tough approach - because OP this man is making life a misery for you and that is not fair.

This happens every time you go out? That is absolutely unacceptable and beyond any kind of reasonable anxiety or fear.

I wonder from your post whether you are really far more emotionally mature/ intelligent than him - and he simply isn't ready to see this himself.
You have obviously read a lot about therapy/ child hood issues - but is he as interested in these things?

You might be well ahead of him....

All I can say is you must stop him controlling you like this. YOur sympathy is wonderful and says a great deal about you but I sense from what you write that he is being unkind to you.

ScarletA your post makes me feel so sad for you. I was in a similar situation with my ex. Together over 20 years, lovely hard working man - not an areshole or a git or any of those things. He just had a problem with jealousy which had almost fatal results.

It is an illness. You can't have a conversation about it because they really can't see that they have a problem. In their mind it is your behaviour that is causing the problem.

In my experience it was progressive and any attempts on my part to placate him by altering my behaviour just fed his suspicions. So me not going on a night out with girl friends because I didn't want him to get funny about it would become me not going out because "I know I can't trust myself to behave".

If I could have had £1 for every apology I had that went "I'm sorry I said/did xxx but you made me do it" I would be a millionaire.

You can't help him. He needs proper professional help and if he won't get it you need to decide if this is something you can live with because you won't be able to change him on your own.

I watched a programme recently about a young woman who hoarded. She had moved back in to live with her mother as she had hoarded so much stuff in her own apartment that she couldn't get in it.

Her mother had given her the basement of her house and she had filled that with stuff and was slowly taking over her mothers house, filling it up with stuff.

The young womans brothers were getting really fed up with this and wanted to go in and skip all her stuff; when faced with this she became very emotional. She told the presenter she knew she was being unreasonable. Eventually they called in a professional woman to help her begin a slow process of eliminating her things from her mothers house.

What struck me about the whole thing was how much control this young woman had over her family, especially her mother. It was control by stealth.
Memebers of the family 'tiptoed' around the issue allowing her to continue the behaviour which she herself knew to be unreasonable.

Your DH is also practicing stealth control. Its interesting that he attacks you if you question it, usually one of the first rules of defense is attack. He probably does know he is being unreasonable.

I would cease putting up with it any longer and make him face up to his own issues. It may get worse for a bit, but long term the situation will probably get worse if not dealt with. Its his problem, not your fault

You lot are wonderful. I don't know how to thank you.

Waterrat, wow, you know your stuff. I wish my DH could read what you have written, it is totally inspirational. Well done you for conquering your demons and helping others to conquer theirs. Read your other posts with more than a little interest and was hoping you'd find mine. I don't know about being more intelligent than him but I prob more emotionally mature - I grew up being half councelled to death so I know much more than him about what makes people tick - and what makes them not tick so well. Which is what I find most hard about our relationship I suppose - his inability and unwillingness to delve into himself a little more - instead of making it my fault.

I didn't think I tolerated his jealousy quite as much as you lot have made me realise. I enjoy myself at parties, I do talk to men and have a laugh with them - and when he starts going into one, I never apologise for my behaviour. However, I realise that I am constantly on the watch for him and will avoid certain men that he has a problem with if he is in the same room. I am also finally allowing myself to recognise that I am feeling increasingly anxious in social situations nowadays, simply because of how he will interpret my behaviour. I told him once a few years ago 'I won't live like this' and meant it - and he did as waterrat said, he felt jealous but did not express it. I knew he was feeling it because on the walk home he would be silent and wouldn't speak to me properly for a day or two. But then he'd get his head round it and that would be it. Not ideal, but better than what we have slid back into. Anyway, his 'coping strategy' didn't last very long, maybe a few months to a year. But I suppose it shows he has more control over it than he is displaying now.

Everyone, your help has been invaluable. It is empowering me to confront this thing once and for all.

Like a man who beats his woman and apologises afterwards... Sigh.

He might not beat you physically, but he is beating down your spirit and sabotaging your relationship

You are already (as you admit) walking on egg shells, anticipating the verbal abuse (yes, that is what it is) and bargaining this emotionally-stunted and controlling behaviour away because he is "extremely nice" to you for a couple of days afterwards

WaterRat has given excellent advice, and I think that, mixed in with sgb's zero-tolerance attitude, is the key here

And you must tackle it...before you limit your life style even more, to the extent that you even stop noticing what a narrow life you are leading in an effort to appease him.

I think Waterrat is right. You need to stop enabling him. He isn using emotional blackmail. He causes a scene when you're out and then you can't confront him because HE hates when you shout etc

Fcuk that OP.

Stop enabling him.

As for that rubbish 'ok we'll split up now' when you bring it up. That is emotional blackmail right there. Don't pander to it.

I had a jealous ex and he carried on the same. I too felt sorry for him and made excuses for him and minimised the problem. He had a sh!t childhood etc
Then i realised so did I but I didn't use it as an excuse to abuse someone else.

He can change if he wants to, just like waterrat did. It will be work. But he needs to do it.

So he had a bad childhood, boo fucking hoo. He;s an adult. His miserable past is not a free ticket for him to mess up YOUR life. He can either sort himself out or fuck off.

Whoa! Not about to tell him to fuck off - we have two kids together for a start. But thanks for your support, it really made me laugh and feel strong.

Anyway, I spoke to him last night. Felt very nervous before because I wanted to get it right ie not do the usual of me berating him endlessly with all his failings and him just getting defensive etc. But we had the most AMAZING talk. It was very moving for both of us. He recognises he has a serious problem and that he/we need to deal with it. He accepted that I was not the woman he makes me out to be when he's in the 'green room' (I love that expression) and that it's his problem, not mine. He also listened when I told him how horrible it is for me and how it is curtailing my behaviour and my life. He said that he will try and control himself BUT (and this is the clincher) he said (of his own free will and without me even beginning That Conversation) that if he does it again, he will go to councelling about it. We even shook hands on it. I am so happy and relieved .

I suspect that he won't be able to control his jealousy properly (I think he knows this too) so we are going to find out if the same woman we saw 6 years ago is available. He said he'd call her.

So A MILLION THANKS to all of you. Can't think why I didn't do this ages ago. Haven't posted on Mumsnet for such a long time but I knew you would help. And you did. Thank you.

Best of luck x

Good luck indeed. Hopefully a counsellor will be able to sort him out. Though your share of the work is to refuse to pander to his jealousy in any way. I don't mean that's a green light to start shagging friends and neighbours, of course, but you will need to insist on your right to a social life and to talk to who you want.

This needs to be nipped in the bud, his behaviour is indeed controlling and bullying
I was in this sit, still am a little bit but is slightly better If I even get ahint of him being possessive, controlling trying to tell me not to go out I railroad him back into place,

To be as controlling as your DP warrants a sense of entitlement over you, thats a huge ego and that ego needs to be popped.

What would he do if you got angry with him on the way home from one of these nights out and told him he has absolutely no right to tell you who you can and can't talk to while you are out, instead of walking on eggshells, trying to pacify him and saying you will do better next time?

I'd be happier if he was going straight for the counselling on the basis of his behaviour last time rather than waiting to see if he'll do it again, but glad you've talked it through and have a plan.

Well done Scarlet x

brilliant scarlet! I have PM'd you