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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Anyone discovered their DH/P's porn habit and notbeen happy about it? How did/do you move on?

38 replies

bintofbohemia · 20/03/2011 10:07

I had a thread in chat the other day because an website popped up in the address bar of the computer which lead me to discover that DH has for the last few weeks (since we got the internet after 3 months) been going on a website and watching porn clips on there.

This isn't about the rights and wrongs of porn; it doesn't bother some people, I get that. But it bothers me in this instance, and no so much because of the porn, but because he has been distant and shutting me out, and even when I asked him to come clean with me (that's probably not the best choice of words, is it?) he first denied it, then said he'd been on there once. Actually a couple of times a week is more like it, mostly when I've been out but also a few times whilst I've been upstairs in bed.

He says that he's not sat down there wanking furiously in front of the computer, if anything he does it later. Hmm

We did used to watch a bit of porn together pre-children ( together being the key word here) but we haven't done it for years, largely as my attitudes towards it changed after having children. Possibly he didn't realise this, but it's the fact that he was watching it on the sly and covering it all up.

Anyway, the reason for this further thread is that I don't know how to move on. I'm quite confused about the whole thing, that he lied to me, that he's feeling the need to watch these clips with really grim titles etc. I feel fairly pissed off and disgusted with him and am wondering why he's watching clips of teenagers and women being degraded. What does that say about him/me/us? The thought of having sex with him now really turns me off as I imagine he'll be thinking about all this shite he's been watching rather than being present with me.

He's really, really sorry, embarassed and appalled and desperately trying to make amends. But I'm finding it hard to give anything back at the moment and I know that's not very healthy. I don't know what to do next and how to move forward. Any advice if you've experienced this would be hugely appreciated as this is all new ground for me.

OP posts:
Supernanny89 · 20/03/2011 10:17

Hi, my partner and I have been together for 6 years, since we were at school, and he used to have stacks off it and watch it every day! I moved in with him 2 years ago and it never really bothered me until I found out he used to watch it whilst I was in the house, aswell as some pretty awful porn.

Its made me so self consious now when we have sex and about my self image. Ive spoke to him about it and he said he wouldnt watch it, I found out he had a few times so said if he watched it again we'd be over as I've lost all myself esteem. He reasures me that he hasnt but I find myself constantly checking the internet history as we dont often have sex anymore and Im worried its me, he assures me that its just cos hes so tierd.

Could you talk to your partner about how it makes you feel? Especially the types of porn he watches and you being in the house. Could you watch a movie with him, prehaps something with a romantic sex scene so its not so vulgar. (unsure of the spelling)

bintofbohemia · 20/03/2011 10:22

Supernanny - so you're still trying to work through it now? It's interesting what you say about not having sex anymore - we haven't done in a few weeks, for a lot of reasons but one of them beign that he's clearly too busy sorting him self out. (Which he blames on me and all the other stuff going on at the moment.)

I think he is possibly a bit depressed at the moment, he's certainly very stressed. He is very sorry and whilst I almost feel sorry for him, I can't get past not wanting him near me at all at the moment...

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Supernanny89 · 20/03/2011 10:45

Yeah, I still always jump on the laptop after him to check, I never find anything and feel awful for not trusting him, its just a niggle in my head.

If hes stressed he may just want a quick relief rather that having to spend time on foreplay and sex. Its just what they watch that makes it bad.

Im sure you will want him near you again, may take some time and reassurance. I dont know what you do but maybe go to bed early and cuddle/kiss and see if that helps you wanting to be with him rather than just rushing into sex and you feeling shit about doing it after. Prehaps just take it back to basics and start again. I keep saying to my partner that I miss just lying there and kissing for ages like we used to instead of just getting straight to it.

Has he said he'll stop watching it? or when youre at home? Its good that hes sorry for how he made you feel, just think youve got to work together now to get your sex life back again.

bintofbohemia · 20/03/2011 10:48

He's said he will never look at it again (which is good as we have two DSs and him not wiping the history could have meant them finding stuff on the computer rather than just me) and I do believe him. I just don't feel much like rekindling stuff with him at the moment, more like slapping him.

OP posts:
Milngavie · 20/03/2011 10:52

I have been where you are now. I've to take ds to hospital now but will tell you all about it when I get back.

bintofbohemia · 20/03/2011 10:57

Thank you. Hope your ds is ok!

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 20/03/2011 12:01

I think it might be helpful if you "de-criminalise" this and see it from the perspective that he is as much a victim of the porn culture as you are.

H and I detest porn and don't use it ourselves, but we didn't always feel this way. The access to and content of porn, has altered enormously in the past 20 years and I think there was a societal blindness before that, to the realities of the industry and the abuses within it. The technology has brought it into most people's houses and phones, but that same technology is available to educate people about porn and its effects.

Inexplicably therefore, that societal blindness seems to have got even worse, despite the information that anyone can find about the damage porn causes. The result is we now have a situation whereby whereas once, boys and men had to hide their (tame by today's standards) magazines, now it is absolutely expected and even celebrated that "all men use porn". The porn has become more misogynistic and extreme at a time when it has never been easier to hide its consumption. In short, porn use in boys and men has become normalised and expected. A counter-culture has developed of women learning to tolerate and embrace porn, rather than risk being thought of as a prude or insecure.

My objections to porn are multi-faceted; mostly political but also societal, in the sense that I can see through my work, my friendships and this forum, how much damage it is doing to teenagers' sexual development and adults' romantic and sexual relationships.

There are so many myths about porn that need debunking. That it enhances sexual relationships, that its opponents dislike sex or libertarianism, that men cannot masturbate without it, that viewing misogynistic material has no link whatsoever with how the viewer treats the women in his life.

What you are describing in terms of the effect it has had on your relationship is a real-life, powerful and vivid testimony. That your H has been treating you badly since using it and his habit has robbed you of a sex life.

You have become yet another victim of an industry that is anti-women - politically and personally.

I think however that men and boys are being horribly short-changed by this expectation and new norm, that they will use porn. Boys who haven't even had sex are being brought up with wholly unrealistic information about healthy and respectful sex with a willing and consenting partner. You don't say how old your H is, but if he was a teenager or 20-something in the 90s and the lads mag era, his own porn use and that of his male friends will have become completely normalised.

The approach I would take is education. Most users have a complete (sometimes willful) ignorance of the provenance of porn. Ask your H to find out about the effects of porn on the actors - it makes shocking and horrifying reading. Ask him to read the plethora of information about the effects on teenagers. The experience you have both seen in your own relationship, is mirrored on this forum in countless threads and on other fora. Porn use really does damage relationships and sex lives - and you are living proof.

This approach will be helpful I think because it helps your H to see that he is as much a victim of his society and the times he lives in as you are. It is also the approach that many schools are taking with teenagers, whose parents are ignorant and cheerfully accepting of boys' porn use. Those parents are like snipers in schools' attempts to educate kids about porn, so headteachers are having to take a pragamatic approach and acknowledge that the students will often be exposed to porn in their own homes and so they mustn't go down the blaming and shaming route - and concentrate more on education and helping students to see what their parents won't.

The kind of approach I'm recommending will I think be more effective than banning it and trusting him not to use it again, although I would always support you in stating your boundaries and consequences if this carries on. But whenever I have discussed this issue with men - and when my H has - it amazes us how ignorant users are to porn's real effects on human lives and society. Much better for someone to stop because he can see the sense of it, understand why it is harmfully addictive and make an active and informed choice not to use it.

Milngavie · 20/03/2011 12:58

I'm back! Ds is okay, some trouble with his ear they are keeping an eye on.

I found out DH (then df) was using porn when I found a scribbled web address beside the computer. I looked it up and was almost physically sick. He was in the bath so I asked through the door what the website was, he was out the bath quicker than I could blink.

I'd checked the history and he'd been looking at some awful stuff for a long time. I even found a downloaded picture!

He had no explanation for it and was horrified at being caught. I went ballistic Blush. I could barely look at him and wanted him nowhere near me so told him to leave. He went to his mum and told her everything.

When this happened ds 2 was 10 months old, ds1 5yo. DH was on permanent night shift and we were living separate lives. He'd come home from work and once I left for school and shopping he'd get on the computer for some solo fun. Our sex life was nil and we were drifting apart.

The day after I found out I wen to see him. We had to talk so he came home once the boys were in bed. He still had no explanation but acknowleded that our relationship was hanging by a thread and that via actions had almost, and still could, end it.

He worked hard to prove to me that I and our family were important. No computer usage for many months and when he went back online he moved the pc into the living room so I knew what he was doing. He asked his work about a shift change and got it, he tried to assure me that he wasn't comparing me to 'them'.

It was a long hard road. I told him that if it happened again we were done. So far as I know (and I do occasionally still check 10 years later) he has avoided porn.

He repects my view on porn and realises what it almost cost him.

bintofbohemia · 20/03/2011 14:06

I am really grateful to both of you for taking so much time to post about this, I really appreciate it, especially as it's not really the sort of thing you can call your best mate/mother about. (Well, I probably could but would rather not, as much for DH's sake as anything else.)

WWIFN - your post makes so much sense to me. In fact, I don't think you're far off being able to turn that into a publishable article, have you thought about doing this? Because I think a lot of women would be extremely interested to read what you have to say, and I agree that if awareness was raised and people actually engaged their brains with this it can only be a good thing. I have two sons and it worries me that they will no doubt be exposed to porn from a ridiculously early age and possibly affect their relationships/views of women. Not to mention all the poor little girls out there who in a matter of years are suddenly going to be expected to compete and perform like the women that the boys are looking at.

My DH is 38 now, so like you say, he was in his early 20's in the mid 90's when Nuts et al went mainstream and he genuinely believes that only "choirboys" don't use porn. FWIW, I don't think he's been into anything particularly violent or unusually fetishistic (if that's a word), it all seems to be focussed on the one site called shoosh time which is fairly "mainstream", I believe. I think we could both do with looking more into the effects of it - can you recommend anything to read/links we could both look at? I'm sure it will just back up what I already think but it would be good for him to read for himself about the effects without thinking I've just been on MN and gone a bit weird about it.

Miln - glad your DS is ok! I'm glad you were able to work through it - did your DH know your feelings about it whilst he was doing it? I think like you say there can be other factors, certainly perhaps we've let our relationship go on a back burner due to stress and the general monotony of every day life, and perhaps men think that it is acceptable to try to relieve that monotony by getting into porn. I suppose I need to take responsibility for my part in letting the relationship slide a bit, but I don't accept that this means he's entitled to get his kicks solo by these means.

We've not spent any time together this weekend hardly, mainly taking it in turns to spend time with the boys and go out seperately. I just got in and before he went out he said he's going to see the doctor and talk about maybe taking ADs to see if that might lift his low mood. (It will no doubt kill his libido and put an end to any more porn sessions even if he wanted to!) I suppose there are some mitigating circumstances and he is distraught at what has happened so I should probably stop being quite so cold towards him.

Christ, what a weekend. Sad

OP posts:
spidookly · 20/03/2011 15:19

If he thinks only "choirboys" don't use porn, then presumably he's only distraught at having been caught?

You have 2 issues to address here

1 porn

2 lying

bintofbohemia · 20/03/2011 15:23

Indeed spodookly.

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bintofbohemia · 20/03/2011 15:24

Ooops, spidookly, even.

I think he might be having some sort of mid life crisis or something. He'll be forty next year, perhaps that's messing with his head.

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spidookly · 20/03/2011 15:31

I don't really buy "midlife crisis" as an excuse for anything.

Why do only men seem to get them?

They always seem to be trotted out as an excuse for treating your partner like shit when she's not in a position to do much about it.

EllieQ · 20/03/2011 15:55

I'm glad this thread has been posted as I found out about my husband's porn use a couple of weeks ago, and I am really struggling to deal with it.

In my case I found lots of video files on the external harddrive of our computer, which I had thought was just being used to back up the hard disk. When I confronted him, he admitted that he had been using porn all through our (15-year) relationship, and that over the past 6-7 years he had been using it more until he got to the point of masturbating to it daily, though he has said there were periods where he didn't use it for months. I checked his internet history and the day after I had confronted him he'd looked at porn websites again!

We have had several discussions about this, and he has said he will stop, but I am finding it very hard to believe him. I've been checking his internet history, but as he knows more about computers than I do it is entirely possible for him to be hiding it.

I was very disturbed by the type of porn he had been viewing as the titles of the files I found were pretty nasty. In a way, I feel as though he has not the man I thought he was. We don't have children, but I had come off the pill as we were planning to conceive. At the moment he is sleeping on the sofa, and for the first week after I found out I could hardly look at him.

We are going to go to Relate as I feel as though we need outside help to get through this. I am thinking about buying the Gail Dines book (Pornland) as I have seen it recommended on threads in the feminist section.

WWIFN - thank you for your post. It has given me a lot to think about. DH was a teenager in the early 90s (we met at university in 1995) so I guess he has been affected by that culture.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, OP, but it is such a relief to be able to discuss this.

Milngavie · 20/03/2011 17:00

Bint DH knew I disliked it but didn't really know how strong my feelings against it were. TBH neither did I until faced with it.

It was a really horrible point in our relationship. He didn't see what he was doing as 'wrong' but has never before, or since, seen me as angry as I was that night.

It took me a long time to be able to have sex without wondering if he was 'with' me or imagining some of the stuff he had been watching.

We are now married and have two more DC and have got past it more or less.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 20/03/2011 17:30

Pornified by Pamela Paul is a good book to read, as well as the Gail Dines book, but there is also some good social research on the net about porn and the early sexualisation of children. There are also lots of interesting threads on the Feminist board, but the angle that seems to receive little coverage is how users themselves are victims of the porn culture, especially the group I would describe as the "uninformed and don't want to know either", which encompasses a lot of users and their partners, I think.

It's pretty evident on here that lots of women believe that their partners occasionally look at fairly harmless porn and that women also look at it with their partners or on their own. However, with the advent of private browsing facilities to protect the forgetful - and the ability to delete history, for the more IT-savvy user, it occurs that many partners really haven't a clue what their partners look at in secret - and don't want to know either. This group doesn't want to know about the provenance of the porn or what the actors are forced to do, believing instead that a sizeable majority of porn stars make a free choice to be physically injured during the making of the films, especially because they "appear to be enjoying it" Hmm.

There are users who make active choices to seek out "ethical porn" where the actors are treated well and not exploited, but even then, I am sceptical about whether that is a truly informed choice and like all porn, it can nevertheless become addictive and de-sensitising to real-life sexual relationships. A daily habit is certainly an addiction.

The other issue I wanted to mention is that relationship therapists are now reporting links between excessive porn use and infidelity. Many partners of porn users seem to comfort themselves with the belief that porn is harmless self-relief and might actually prevent "real" infidelity, but the reverse appears to be true.

This is because like any addiction, a user needs an even greater "hit" after a while and the culture of secrecy, lies and illicit sexual behaviour connected with hidden porn addiction, paves the way to finding a real-life partner with whom to enact porn fantasies - hence the increase in no-strings-sex dating sites, escort use or infidelity, at the first opportunity.

This subject always attracts a lot of anger and derision from all sides of the debate, but as you rightly said, this is a support thread and what you need is help to negotiate some boundaries in your primary relationship. If you do this now, before your children become older, it will help you to parent them and protect them by having a porn-free house and a consistent and harmonious message from both of you later on, about porn. It really helps teenagers especially if both parents are delivering the same message and giving them information about their sexual choices. It also supports what secondary schools are trying to achieve.

On a general point about a relationship and any harmful behaviour that is negatively affecting it, I believe that stopping the behaviour on its own rarely works. Although "cold turkey" will defeat an addiction, sometimes other addictions will surface to replace it. It is therefore more sustainable if an addict makes the decision himself, after assessing the information. For you as his partner, that means stating your boundaries and any consequences that will happen if the porn use continues, but to enforce those choices, it follows that your partner needs to stop keeping secrets and telling lies, otherwise your choices will be denied.

Many couples have this showdown and then the non-using partner crosses their fingers and hopes for the best. Some stop loooking for evidence that will cause them to act on previously issued threats, hence the truth in the relationship becomes compromised by smoke and mirrors.

It's much easier to trust and believe someone if s/he shares the same views as you about the issue and speaks openly against porn and the effects we're seeing. I would also add that it becomes obvious during sex whether someone is a porn user, but have observed that there are lots of women on Mumsnet who have never had the opportunity to experience sex with someone who doesn't use porn - and that's a real shame Sad.

bintofbohemia · 20/03/2011 19:35

EllieQ - you're not hijacking and I'm sorry you're in the same boat. It's pretty shocking if you had no idea and I really hope the counselling helps you both.

Miln - I'm glad you got there in the end. Smile

WWIFN - Interesting about the links with infidelity, and I can imagine how that would happen as they get more and more desensitised. Am off to look on Amazon for those books...

OP posts:
thebody · 20/03/2011 20:09

ok, am not really getting this..

tbh some posters sound like they have 'caught out' their dh and then treat them like naughty children.. wife is apalled and husband is horrified/apologetic... and of course thats a lie.. they arnt... just caught out...

men and women are different.. shock horror.. they just are.. men are turned on by visual images(so are some women)

I am sorry but after 23 years of a very happy marriage I am 'not always with' my dh during sex either..who the hell is?? dont you all fantasise as well but love your dh/dp.. men look at porn to fantasise visually.. women can do this in their heads.. whats the difference..???.

infadelity is nothing whatever to do with watching porn imo... but if you treat your dh like a naughty child then they may well act like one... dangerous..

Milngavie · 20/03/2011 20:16

thebody I never treated my DH as a naughty child. I found out he was doing something that caused me great emotional pain.

Good for you fantasisng about other during sex but this is something I have never done, even after 17 years.

Do you seriously believe if women object to their partners using porn they will run out and have affairs? Really??!!

spidookly · 20/03/2011 20:25

thebody

I can't tell if your post is for real or somebody taking the piss out the cliche-filled crap that people come out with to "explain" to us unenlightened, foolish women why men NEED porn.

Did you read any of what Whenwill wrote there?

But if this is a joke, I particularly enjoyed this bit:

"men look at porn to fantasise visually.. women can do this in their heads.. whats the difference..???"

:o :o

bintofbohemia · 20/03/2011 20:27

thebody - this isn't just about the porn, it's the lies, the sneakiness and the breakdown of communication.

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thebody · 20/03/2011 20:40

ok well I am not the one posting my unhappiness am I?? i also didnt say men NEED porn but clearly some men do and thats why there is this post..

I explicitly said that watching porn DOES NOT excuse an affair.. but not understanding your dh/dp or what makes them tick may lead to an affair..

why do you need an explanation for everything?? tbh do you masturbate? fantazise.. is this wrong??

of course we have all been in the small children haze of sleepless nights and no sex but to keep your main realtionship.. dh/dp then its no good buerying your heads in the horrified sands of arnt men disgusting to look at this...

i just dont understand why the poster is so upset.. why would this cause you so much emotional pain?? its not an affair??

its just porn.. look at it together, turn it off and make love to your dh... i am so sorry but i just dont get the big deal here...

fwiw married for 21 years and have 4 kids.. and hes my best friend and we have a laugh... not angst..

Malificence · 20/03/2011 20:50

Any man who needs porn has a problem akin to a man needing drugs or alchohol.

If your marriage is so great, why are you thinking/fantasising about other men while having sex with your husband? Confused

I've been having sex with mine for nigh on 30 years, never felt the need to think about anyone else.

See what I did there? Wink

The fact that you think that way doesn't mean that everyone does, just because you can sit there and deny all the harm that porn use is doing to countless relationships, doesn't mean that those of us who do have objections about porn do..

This is more an issue of secrecy and compulsive behaviour anyway.

tadpoles · 20/03/2011 21:03

Well - suggestion - maybe create your own little porn movie with him. I know that sounds ridiculous but maybe get into some role play stuff. Have a little bit more fun with him. Why not fantasise yourself? You could analyse the whole thing until the cows come home - but, maybe just have a bit more fun in the bedroom department. Sometimes I go out with friends and have a bit of a laugh, get chatted up - my partner enjoys hearing about it (I know that sounds slightly perverse.) It keeps him on his toes. Men and women have such different approaches to sex - sometimes I think it is astonishing that the human race survives at all!

bintofbohemia · 21/03/2011 08:53

He's taking a day off today and we're going to spend some time together and try to sort things out. He feels really awful and I think anti depressants make help a bit to be honest. He has always had problems with being a bit addictive (smoking and fruit machines in his younger days) so it's probably for the best that this has come to light sooner rather than later.

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