MIL the matriarch

[cashmere]

Hi

Wanting some advice re handling my domineering MIL.
DP and I were together for 18 months when I became pregnant (planned) and I got on with PIL well, though obviously hadn't known them for long.
SORRY THIS WILL BE LONG!!
When DS was born I found MIl hard work and very in my face. I didn't have PN depression, work with kids, am educated and coped well with becoming a mother, but from the start she would subtley interfere. E.g. rush to grab baby from me by saying 'shall I take him?' whilst grabbing him, be reluctant to hand him over for feeds (complained that I breastfeed as she couldn't feed him- still does as she wants to have him overnight- DS is 12 months).
When we would arrive for visits she would grab his carseat and then sit it down next to her and as far from me as poss (ie on the floor far from the sofas) if he was still asleep . Maybe doesn't sound much but frustrating when DPs family would arrive with gifts/ to meet him and we weren't able to introduce him as he was hogged by her. I felt like a bystander. She would also rearrange his clothing and when I put his carseat in the car her hands would appear by mine trying to take over as I did the straps up! She wouldn't back off even if I kept my hands there.

All sounds quite minor and petty... and I assumed I was an overprotective hormonal Mum of a PFB. I always made a concious effort to ensure she did get 'alone time' without me hovering around.

Since then this pattern has continued:-
At a picnic when DS was 3 months old he was crying as it was windy- it was a party so we had to stay for a while. She constantly grabbed at him and when DP and I took him for a walk to a sheltered spot she tagged along and wouldn't give us any space. Again when introducing him to friends she was the one who handed him over for cuddles as she kept taking him from my arms.

At another family event at 8 months he cried when faced by the big crowd and she grabbed him from me before I had a chance to settle him. She also kept taking him off to quiet corners by herself to play and at lunchtime put a highchair at her table not ours- got DP to move it- then as soon as we had eaten she appeared to take him.

At DS's christening last month MIL deliberately sat right behind us and kept trying to distract him with toys- I'd bought a selection with me. At the party she again sat the highchair at her table (let her get on with it so could mingle). She then wouldn't let anyone else get a look in. BIL carried DS on his shoulders she hovered telling him to be careful, when Bro and Sis playing with DS on floor she swooped in and took him away, when my Dad offered to have a turn pushing DS to sleep she wouldn't let him. At one point I thoguht she had been carrying him around for long enough and took him off her she followed me across the room and stood behind me trying to entice him with toys over my shoulder. My friend (who I have never discussed this with) actually commented that MIL really didn't want to hand DS to me. My friend also noticed that she questioned my decision to give him Calpol- and said she was shocked as I'm his mother.

The catch is that PIL look after DS 3 days a week and have done since he was 9 months old. He has settled really well there. We would struggle to afford nursery but may look into him doing a day or so whe he turns 2.

Today at his birthday gathering I again felt sidelined. She wanted to feed him and I decided to stand my ground- but 5 times during the meal she stood up to straighten his bib, move some food etc. She hovered on the edge of her seat like she was uncomfortable with me 'being Mum'. When I went to the kitchen to get his yoghurt when I returned she was in my seat and said 'I'll feed him'. I stood my ground but it made me feeding him uncomfortable as I was being watched.
Every time he walked past her to wander into the kitchen she held her arms out to encourage him to go to her. When he banged his head I cuddled him and she took him and said 'I can tell when he's really hurt he's fine' (like I couldn't). She also spent the whole time regaling everyone with tales of 'what he does at her house' (which are they same things he does with me and DP).

I feel like I'm being sidelined at gatherings and not able to rejoice in our wondeful DS I also feel I'm generally not being respected.

Thoughts please- how would you handle this?

Personally I would be open and honest about your feelings.

What does your dp say? Does he notice?

If things don't improve I would look for a cm or nursery for him.

I disagree that she has a say in parenting as she has him 3 days per week. My cm has mine 3 days and isn't involved in decision making etc. I am sure you are grateful but you don't have to sell your soul to show it.

This must be bloody annoying, but you have a really great set up for DS with childcare from his grandparents who love them - and I think it seems really sad to take them away and put them in the care of a nursery because of this - its fantastic that he is able to get so much care from family members, and much better for him.

A friend of mine said to her MIL _ please dont take dc out of my arms without asking. It worked - mild awkwardness, but then the MIL learnt. Sometimes, we dont say what we want because we dont want to upset people, but actually it's honestly better to be frank.

Could you say something calmly and as kindly as possible, that you feel undermined sometimes as his mother because when she is around, she is too involved in all his care. If you decide that each time an incident happens you will firmly say to her, as someone above said, 'I'm going to do this actually, I do miss this while being at work'.

I honestly think a calm chat, that you feel that you aren't getting to be mum while she is around - and say, look I know its because you are so good with him and love him, but I feel protective of the time I get with him.

re. hogging him when family is around =- I would deal with that by being very firm and standing your ground and simply taking him and passing him over.

After all - its annoying and thoughtless, but it comes from love for the child - sometimes grannies get a bit overwhelmed. And your child will have such a fantastic relationship with the grandparents when he grows up. I always think it's such a great thing to have that link.

Dont throw that away because of her being a bit overwhelming - an honest chat might really help you feel better.

perhaps at family gatherings, you could ask her to let your family/the rest of her family play with ds becuse she has ds in the week and "you wouldn't want ds to miss out on socialising now would you. we might have to put him in nursery instead to get him to socialis more." implied threat of her losing out if she hogs him.

Or perhaps "well maybe I will have to get my mum to look after him in the week so ds can see my family sometimes too"

Perhps you could hand over ds for set periods during visits.. eg you look after him during lunch mil and then I will take him back for his feed. you could also farm out the nastier jobs.. (pooy nappies) if she is so keen.

Non of what you have posted sounds too bad, but i suppose that it is the drip drip/ power struggle that grates.
You really need dp on side.

The one thing I would say is be careful how much she monopolises him with other members of your family. My MIL did this with SIL's kids and it did put other members of the family off going near her kids because it went on for such a long time.

No one could bond with them or engage with them without MIL sweeping in and behaving as you describe. Now everyone lets them get on with it as they feel pushed out but I think SIL is desperate for them to have relationships with other people as they are now older. Sadly the level of familiarity that she desires just isn't there and she didn't help the situation by stepping in to control MIL.

Only options are to be much more assertive with MIL or sort out paid childcare.

Im not sure why paid childcare will actually resolve the underlying issue. She will surely still be like this unless you find other ways to fix it? Or do you think you could then be firmer with her?

Because that seems like going too far - you are the parents and if you are feeling unhappy with aspects of her relationship with the child you need to be able to say so. I think it's unreasonable to compare her to a CM for example and say they have no say in parenting - she is a grandparent, they actually do get a say in some ways.

THe grandparents I know who do child care are very involved in parenting - and the children are more loved and better looked after as a result.

But you all need to sing from the same sheet - I think this whole thing could be resolved with a calm and firm word - I know easier said than done, but she is just bonkers in love with your child! Find a way to point out kindly that when you are around you are in charge....

OP, I don't think her having your DS is causing a blurring of boundaries - he is 12m, she has had him 3 days/week since 9m, most of the examples you listed of her behaviour predated this by quite a long way! If anything, you might have thought the amount of time she gets with him would have sated her and helped her to back off ...

brass's posting of 15:54:46 makes a lot of sense - maybe your DP/her son could have a gentle wrd with her along that line?

Thanks for all your responses, some really good advice. I agree that I'll have to make sure other family isn't pushed out- I'd thought mainly about my side but it would be nice to see some of DP's relatives seperately too as they also don't get a look in and we usually meet them at PIL's house. (Aware that this might sound like a meeting with the Pope or something- I grant you an audience with DS!!)

It is exactly right that I thought she'd calm down once she had him for the 3 days. I also didn't know how much of it was me being over sensitive till the Christening last month when several others noticed/commented about her behaviour. It validated my feelings.

I think the problem may be that as soon as I was pregnant they said they would like to look after him and would hate the thought of him being in nursery- so from the offset they needed to be extra involved. When DS was born one of MIL's friends who I have never met and DP not seen since childhood, sent a card with a letter saying she had heard that MIL would be 'looking after the baby' and how lucky we were, what a fabulous Mum she was etc etc

I think the other problem is that although I'm assertive in a work capacity, I'm rubbish at standing my ground in my personal life. I get flustured and feel unsure of what is and isn't acceptable from others.

When DS was 2 weeks old MIL had a stinking cold but wanted to see DS. I had had LOTS of stitches and was still uncomfortable but she asked us to meet them at a park so she could see him outside. We duely went along and she pushed him the whole way round (even though it was also our 1st visit to a park due to me being uncomforatble). At one point DP and FIL went to get icecreams and as MIL and I waited she marched him backwards and forwards about 10 metres. At first I followed then felt silly like a puppy following her backwards and forwards so again felt like a spare part. I finished my icecream first so offered to push the pram and she refused. Then when we reached their car park, I'd had enough walking so suggested saying goodbye on the path- we were parked further down the road. MIL wouldn't do this and argued about walking into the carpark, I repeated that we weren't parked there and she suddenly pushed the pram straight off the edge of the kerb. DP was shocked as DS was really jolted and asked her what she was doing! I remember when we left him saying she was 'raged', as we didn't know why we had to walk to their car and then turn round and walk to ours, especially when I was in discomfort and she knew my back hurt.

Basically, Whereyoueftit, I think you are right- she has prob tried to override my thoughts and feelings from the beginning.

We are going on holiday for a few days with MIL and SIL in a couple months so will aim to have developed my assertiveness by then. I'll use some of the phrasing suggested and say that 'because I've had to go back to work, on my days with DS I like to look after him', 'it's okay I'M having a cuddle' etc
Thanks

Waterrat that sounds like good advice. Good point Cashmere that you could mention the fact that you miss doing certain things with him whilst you're working - then it makes it about you as well as about her.

It's really difficult and your situation is different from mine in that she provides childcare and obviously have a lot of contact with her so you have more reason to try to sort it out. Sometimes I think that if I'd tried to discuss it with my MIL at some point it would have actually made our relationship better in the long run but she would have been terribly upset by it and DH would have been mortified up until recently, so I took the view that we only see her once every 6 weeks or so and it probably wasn't worth it. Good luck if you decide to bite the bullet!

I think it's a very valid point to make to her "you have ds to yourself 3 day per week for most of his waking hours which is far more than most grandparents get. He is our son and we need and want to spend time with him and for other family to spend time with him too"

Ultimately you do hold the cards as she is desperate to have your ds to look after . I hope SIL reproduces soon to take the pressure off.

OP - can I just pick up on where you say you 'would want a childminder before then but using a CM would def offend MIL'

If you want to try childcare before he is 2 to try and ease MIL's 'grip', then if a childminder is what you'd prefer to use, use one. You can't base your decisions for your son on what will and won't upset her (or other relations)

What you say about the car park incident is worrying. Does MIL throw a strop/have a tantrum when anyone says no to her?

Yes I picked up on the car park thing too.

I think your dp needs to be there when you talk to her, personally I'd be looking at a cm even if moneys tight it's worth it for reduced stress.

When dp is dh you will feel more assertive, she may not see you any differently at all.

It sounds like she needs a total personality overhaul.

After your most recent post I wouldn't hesitate to make my feelings known.

Who the fuck does she think she is?

I really don't think you're dealing with normal grandparent emotions here. She seems to have decided that in some way the baby is hers. It will be painful but I would really want to break that dynamic. She will be hurt, upset, angry and throw all her toys out of the pram. She will also try very trick in the book and game she can to maintain her preferred state.

I know it sounds dramatic but that episode of pushing the pram in the car park really made me feel worried. I don't feel like your DS's happiness is her priority over her new found mummyhood.

It's a difficult situation, and hopefully you and your DP can work out how to tackle it together.

(Sorry, I'm coming to this thread late.)

I've had a bit of this with my MIL. When my PILs and my parents are all together with my DD I do sometimes have to step in and say (to both grandmothers, my Mum too, not just MIL) "Can you please let x push the buggy now?". To make sure they each get their fair turn.

My MIL tended to snatch DD from my arms when she was a baby, even though the only thing that ever comforted DD was bf. I bf DD to 14 months and it drove MIL nuts too. I was lucky in that another grandchild was born soon after, not bf, so she got her "fix" with the other GC instead.

One thing I wanted to say is that I think it does get easier as your DC gets older. Once you stop bf, your DS will become easier to leave with grandparents overnight, which you may start to welcome.

What I've found amusing is seeing DD react to MIL's overbearing nature now that she can talk and give opinions. "Give Grandma a kiss/cuddle" is often met with "No, I don't want to!". Ooooh, the cat's bum face reaction to that is classic!

Also, toddlers will react/rebel most against their primary carers. Normally this is the parents, so you'll get some of this, but if your MIL is still doing some of his childcare by then, she will also feel the force of the "terrible twos". Oh yes, revenge is sweet!

My PILs do a lot of childcare for their other grandchild and it really has tested their love for that grandchild because the GC plays up for them non-stop - they even complain about the other GC to me. (Whereas with my DD they can play and have a good time with none of that aggro.)

She obviously loves your son to bits, and he is a huge and important part of her life. Maybe the only part she gets any satisfaction from.

I expect she would be devastated if you confronted her - she probably thinks she is being helpful, and giving you a break at family gatherings etc.

So if you are going to say anything, be gentle and tactful, or you may fall out with someone very important to your son and your DH.

I'vebeen there and still am there to a degree. I think your mil is going way to far. Try and extract them from childcare as soon as possible and also try to reset your boundaries so she can be a loving and involved gp but not one you have to compete with to be mum. And not one where your own family have to bow down to her mothering of your child.

I've sort of done it - only because mil lives overseas. It took a big big fight and she's backed off (but constant snides from her about my parenting) but as kids get older they're not so keen on gp smothering anyhow.

MrsBloomingTroll is right, it was a happy day when eldest nephew refused to go round the shops with her (she liked to take children out as ornaments), and an even happier day when he started calling her on her behaviour, particularly her lies and stories.

SIL gets the worst of it, she lives nearby. She's got to the point that she does what she wants to do, and doesn't take on the guilt or take any notice if she strops and tantrums.

If you feel your MIL is taking over as a parent when you are there and you are missing out on being with your son due to working I wonder why you are going on holiday with her. Surely a holiday is a perfect time for the 3 of you to have some time without well meaning overbearing relatives.
It's hard to complain about her when you choose to use her for babysitting and choose to go with her on holidays. You sound overly enmeshed to me.

When you are with your son you will have to be more assertive with her and remind her that you are his mum and that although you're sure she means well you find her fussingand inferring you are an incompetent mother upsetting and annoying.

Do more stuff without her though so she has to concentrate on the rest of her life as well.

I won't be rushing in to say anything that may upset her as bull in a china shop is not my style.... I'm also well aware that at his current age this set up is ideal for DS. That said, I don't think it is healthy for him to see his mother being consistently undermined as he gets older. Will def put a plan in place re childcare as DS approaches 2. Not to cut them out but to reduce days.

I am however, going to speak more directly and worry a bit less about offending her- she seems to only think of her needs not those of me or my family.

She has had another tantrum I can think of, when I handed a 6 week old DS to another family member (who was meeting him for the 1st time) and she said that she hadn't held him yet that day!!! She held him. That day she also ignored the fact that he was overstimulated and getting increasingly upset. She kept taking photos and waving toys at him. She has photos of him on FB looking really distressed saying 'DS looking cool on his mat'- really doesn't match with his face!

The photo thing is another issue. The day after he was born, everyone came over to ours and DP and I escaped to the bedroom to change a tarry nappy together. She followed and lent over us taking photos (I had gathered all the changing stuff together), these then appeared on FB with only DP in them and captions like 'Daddy doing the nappy change'. May just be really proud of her son but I felt she was rewriting what actually happened. Was also a bit bizarre to be taking photo too.

That day in the park, I saw some lovely crocuses and suggested it would be a nice spot for a photo (of the 3 of us). She pushed the parm over and started posing!! This has been a pattern since during days out.

We've just had a belated birthday get together at hers and I'm not on a single photo. My Mum checked I was there. There are captions though saying DS with X, DS with Y etc. Bizarrely she has also entiled the album DS at 13 months- I pointed out that he's not 13 months for a couple days yet and she just said 'What's a couple days between friends'. Bizarre. Wonder if it is as I had asked what DP was like at DS's age and she said 'Similar, he walked at 13 months....' DS walked at 11 months but I know she likes to think he's like his Dad. Who knows.

SIL has 2 children, one of 5 and one 3 months younger than DS (who is bottle fed). She doesn't hog them in the same way. She used to do so with the 5 year old to some extent but now all the attention is on my DS. I had hoped that the other baby would take the pressure off too. They live v close to each other and SIL doesn't work so maybe she is happier to share time. That said at her child's christening MIL didn't take over.

All a bit of a ramble but v useful to write my thoughts down.

I was very unsure about the holiday, but she always pays for SIL and kids for the few days and wanted us to go this time too. I only need to take 1 day A/L so that's not an excuse not to go. It would have caused great offense to turn her down and it was also booked ages ago not that long after DS was born.

Is your DP her PFB or her only son? Is your DS her only grandson? Sorry, I can't remember if you've said either of those things already, but maybe they could explain why she is being like this with your DS and not with the others.

Or maybe your SIL and MIL have had a run-in over her behaviour and now she's coming after you as a softer target?

My SIL is very strict with my MIL about how to look after my DN, gives written instructions and everything.

Well, your last post says it all - she feels a huge sense of entitlement that takes over the need of your child.

Ideally the 'terms of engagement' should be no different to sending your child to nursery but in this case it is.

My ds comes from and Italian (dhs side family that's very over the top and wants ds for themselves) and an anglo indian one (so family also very important). My mother could have helped with childcare (as she's here) but she actually did believe that as ds was an only child to older parents he's be better off in a nursery - and I totally agree - he had the opportunity to mix with other kids ahead of starting school and I know for a fact that if he's been left with family only it would have been quite a step change with school - well nursery has done him well and all those who loved him (lots of family) have been also able to love him but he's been able to feel his way in the real world as well. But both sets of grandparents are still very involved and ds feels hugely loved.

I really do feel that lots of love does not by right mean it's best for your child. Depends on who's offering what.

Your mil doesn't sound like she's got your kid's best interest at heart but instead is reliving her mother role. All very nice but it's treading on your toes.

Your fear of causing offence to mil highlights the issues here.

Gosh, I now think my MIL is a saint - sorry, not helpful but I think you sound very laidback and kind cashmere and have put up with being sidelined for ages - still, in the end, all the photos without you etc... just point to the fact that your mil, in my opinion, is desperately trying to be "mum" again which clearly she cannot be, and your ds will definitely know who his mother is (you :)) so don't worry about that... As you say, incrementally and gently start making the changes (you could have a list which you tick off gradually) you want to make.
Grandparents ARE fantastic and they do love grandchildren unconditionally (though as others have said pushing pram off pavement is not a loving thing to do, or taking thousands of pictures of a tired baby) - I have very fond memories of my grandparents, but that's what they were my grandparents, not my parents. I also feel it's possible for family members to "share" a child as it were, without upsetting others or behaving in a bullying fashion, which your MIL seems to do.