Cant face another holiday with mum....

[LostInSockLand]

My mum is a lovely person...when she's sober. She's very protective of me, helps me out in hard times etc. The trouble is, she's not sober very often. She still works at the moment but obviously I cant call her at work too much.

I've learnt that its pointless calling her after 6.30 at night as she'll be slurring and wont remember a word i've said. Apart from the fact that she's diabetic and I have to watch her slowly killing herself with alcohol, she's horrible when she's drunk. She puts me down, accuses me of allsorts. When she's sober she's proud of me, when she's drunk i'm a terrible mum, my kids are terrified of me and I keep our dog in a cage 24/7 apparently. God knows where these ideas come from, any excuse to slate me I think.

I've begged her to at least cut down on her drinking but she wont listen...she starts crying and saying it's my fault she drinks so much because she worries about me. She books a holiday for us every year...and I know how terrible it sounds but I really dont want to go again. Every year she gets drunk and causes a problem. Last year I spent our first night sitting outside the caravan in the rain for three hours. She passed out drunk on the living room floor and when I gently tried to wake her and asked her to go to bed in the double room so I could pull out the bed in the lounge where I was to sleep she screamed at me that "I couldn't tell her what to fucking do". I just wanted to get as far away from her as possible but obviously couldn't go anywhere and leave the kids with her (they were asleep in their room). This is just one example but there's so much more to it.

How do I get out of another holiday with her? I've tried to explain but obviously when she's sober she doesn't remember a thing and gets really upset...whatever I do I seem to hurt her feelings.

Personally I'd just be very un-emotional about it and say very calmly that if she remembers it or not she was nasty to you when under the influence and that you cannot be with her under those conditions esp with DC.

Saying she worries so much she drinks is a un-reasonable justification, every mother worries but they don't all drink heavily.

She will most likely be upset but as an adult she is responsable (sp) fir her own actions and the conseqences. At the moment she doesn't have to change because she is getting what she wants from you i.e a holiday partner and time with DC.

I'm not nice after alcohol so I don't drink at all.

My mothers nasty after literally a thimble full of alcohol.

'My mothers nasty after literally a thimble full of alcohol.'

Sounds like my 'dearest' mother too.

I would just tell her that you can't abide her behaviour and you will not be subjecting yourself to it or your children.

Tell her to seek help and to stop blaming others for picking up the bottle,no one is holding a gun to her head and forcing it down her throat.

I would steer clear of her and her venom tbh

I feel so guilty though. Last year I had the chance to go away with a friend and her kids but I didn't...I went away with mum because she wouldn't have had a holiday otherwise and she does work really hard...then she ruined it. Next morning she had no idea why I was frosty with her and cried again.

She's manipulating you I'm afraid.

It's a cycle that will go on and on until she either stops the drinking or it kills her.Fact.

Sorry to be blunt.

You have to be really strong. Plus it's not your job to parent her.

You deserve a holiday where your not dreading the evenings. It's meant to refresh you after all.

she can be a real nightmare. One year when ds was little we took him to the family entertainment place, some little girls were singing and he covered his ears. He would have been fine in five minutes but she took him outside, told me I was cruel for taking him in and physically held on to him when I'd already said it was ok, i'd take him back to the caravan....she wouldn't let me and i'm not really going to play tug of war with my child

Her partner told her she was being an idiot too but no...ds couldn't go in, couldn't come back with me either. So I had to sit there outside the pub with her giving me the daggers. I obviously wasn't going to walk off and leave him with drunk nanny.

Partner? Is she still with him?

She would be able to have a holiday without you if she wanted. Just be firm and say no. Tell her when she is sober that it is because her drinking makes it an ordeal rather than a holiday for everyone else around her.

You are being manipulated here and being blamed for an issue that is hers alone. The crying on her part is also manipulative and is designed to make you feel sorry for her. You are not making her drink; she is choosing to drink to perhaps forget her own problems.

It is not your job to parent her either; you need to be the parent solely to your own children. You need to emotionally detach from all this because this situation is all too easy to be sucked into and it is very draining.

Also talking to her about her drinking is a complete and utter waste of time on your part. You and your children do not need to see their selfish drunkard mother/grandmother at all; the messages that you all get from this are all damaging ones.

Tell her and her man (his role to her now is enabler) if he is still with her by letter that you will be going on holiday with your own children and without them.

Al-anon would certainly be worth calling in your case as they are there to help family members of problem drinkers.

I think you have to say 'We can't be around you while you are drinking'. And make that that.

I wouldn't go on holiday with her because leaving will be hard. But for every day interactions, the minute she has a drink, that's it, leave.

You can't control her but you can control what you subject yourself and your kids too and you are not doing them any favours by subjecting them to a mean drunk.

When she's sobor, explain it to her. She actually doesn't have to remember - you remember. Her opinion on the matter doesn't havce any bearing on what you choose to do with your time. Explain it to her once and then don't discuss it again. And don't talk to her when she's drunk.

I think you have to be firm and do it soon. You really should have told her after the last holiday that you didn't intend going away with her again until she was no longer an alcoholic.
You are a parent with children, just tell her that you don't wish to go on holiday with her until she has been sober for 6 months and suggest she seeks advice from alcohol addictions specialists.
I'm not sure her being "protective of you" is helpful anyway, you are an adult, only small children need protecting, adults need to learn to protect themselves and being protective of another adult often equates to trying to control them.
People with drink problems always have an excuse as to why they drink alot and it's never their fault, always the job, the debts, the neighbours, their ex, you in this case etc.
It isn't your problem it's hers. Tell her when she starts getting help and sticking to the advice then you'll be keener to see her and spend time with her.
If her partner is still with her then I'm not sure why you find it so difficult to tell her you aren't going. If he isn't I'd still not go until she sorts herself out. Your kids and having a fun holiday with them should be your priority.

Also your mum can have a holiday without you, if she's of working age she can easily organise a holiday of her own and go alone or with friends. Alcoholics do tend to drive all their sober friends away though, but again that's her problem. When she's sober some of the group activity holidays may suit her.

Just tell her "mum, we will not be coming on holiday this year".

If she really doesn't remember what she's said and done when she's drunk, could you maybe record a phone conversation and play it to her when she's sober?

Video her, take photos, record phone conversations - you can do all of that but it will not make a blind bit of difference if she doesn't want to stop.

You are not responsible for your mum so you have no need to feel guilty at all. It doesn't sound "bad" for you to say you don't want to go, it sounds utterly normal and sensible.

It is easy for us to say "just say no" but I understand how hard that can be to do.

But while you are not responsible for your mum, you are responsible for your children. You will feel very guilty indeed when they come to you later in life and ask why you didn't shield them from having to see/be with/relate to their drunk Nanny.

It might help to remember that when you are saying "no" to your mum? Because she will cry and rage and do her best to make you feel bad. And you can say "but Mum, we have to put the children first, don't we? They shouldn't have to be on holiday with swearing screaming drunk, should they?". If she says she is not like that, point out that she doesn't remember what she is like. If she says she won't get drunk again, say good, lets give it 6 months without the bottle and then rethink the holiday. If she cries and says you don't love her and she is lonely, say you do love her but you love your kids more. Or you could cry too, and say she doesn't love your kids enough to stay sober for them ...

It is better to say "no thanks, we won't be coming this year" and leave it at that, without giving her reasons to argue against, but really hard to do that!

If she doesn't know what she is like when she has been drinking, maybe you could record her on a dictophone or something, then play it back to her when she is sober again to make her hear how horrible she is to you, it maybe a bit harsh but if it gets through to her she might change her ways. You could then explain how she makes you feel and that you don't want to go on holiday with her if she is going to be like that every evening!

Hi Lost,

There are however no guarantees with regards to alcoholism and she may well remain an alcoholic for the rest of her days. You are still not responsible for her.

Unless your mother wants to stop drinking and is serious about seeking help for her own self, then nothing that you do or say will make any difference at all.

You need to remember the 3cs re alcoholism:-
You did not cause it
You cannot control it
You cannot cure it

Thanks for all the replies. I guess this goes a lot deeper than just holidays.

I dont understand my mum, I never really have. If anyone ever hurt me or my kids she would go nuts but she seems to think it's ok to do that herself.

Although she never remembers anything that was said, she does know that she's drunk every night and she does know when we've had a row because she'll be snippy towards me the next day. Example of this being the caravan incident I mentioned in my first post. She got up the next morning, cooked breakfast for herself and the kids and completely ignored me. (Not that I need mummy to cook my breakfast obviously but it was a deliberately mean gesture). She knew she was pissed off with me, she just didn't know why.

I've tried talking to her when she's sober, i've told her its only because I care. She thinks i'm just trying to upset her, "going on" at her. "You have a drink of a night" (yes, many people do and they are not raging alcoholics!) "I dont want to hear it" "stop nagging me" "well you wont learn to drive " anything in fact...it doesn't matter whether it's relevant or not!

It will be the same routine...mum gets drunk, talks rubbish about my childhood, how awful I was (I wont go into that, but I was not awful), what a crap mum I am blah blah, she'll be satisfied once I get upset then she'll be falling over, flailing around and giving me "the look" (humiliation, embarrassment and hurt all rolled into one) while she's lying on the floor.

I dont have the opportunity to go away with my friend and her kids now as she's found a partner, my mum wont go away with her partner as they've been living separate lives now for a long time. They live in the same house but cant stand each other. I know for a fact if I say i'm not going on holiday with her she'll accuse me of being selfish and depriving the kids of a holiday.

She's always been like this. When I was a kid she'd do exactly the same and if I ever said anything back it would be the old lock herself in the bathroom and threaten to kill herself routine.

HUGE sigh.

I know from experience how difficult it is to be the child of an alcoholic so you have my sympathy.
But you must do what I did and protect your dc from the worst of it
That means calmly saying you dont want to see or hear from them drunk.
You won't aloow your dc to be around someone who's had a drink
If you get a weepy phone call you HAVE to say we'll discuss this later and PUT THE PHONE DOWN. Do not feel guilty about this ( you will but it does get easier)
Calmly say you dont enjoy the caravan holiday and wont go.
You mum is an adult and perfectly capable of going on holiday on her own, you are not on this earth to provide her entertainment.
You dont have to be miserable for her to feel good
She is responsible for her own behaviour.
Dont be bullied by her
Dont be guilted by her
Dont feel you ahve to justify yourself

Is the holiday really the sort of thing the kids would enjoy? Drunk nanny passed out, drunk nanny shouting at mummy, drunk nanny making them do things they dont want?
Making them suffer the same hurt, humilation and awkwardness you suffered?
Think very very hard about that

Why can't you take your kids on holiday without your mum?
I suspect as a kid I'd have hated a holiday cooped up with drunk grannie in a caravan and with an atmosphere every morning and her and mum arguing. If you can't afford a holiday without your mum paying for the caravan your kids may prefer to stay at home and just go on day trips to places, or go camping or stay at a youth hostel.
You just have to be firm and tell her she is being selfish by wanting to inflict her alcoholism on your family.
If her partner isn't married to her why don't they separate? What is he getting out of the relationship or is he an alcoholic too?

It isn't that I cant go away without her, like I said, she does work hard and deserves a break but she wont go away without us.

Alcoholic's are often very manipulative and oh-so-sorry for themselves: her refusing to go on holiday without you is just more emotional blackmail.

I really sympathise. My mum was the same - not as bad as yours sounds though - but she was an alcoholic who never admitted it. In our late teens, my sister & I had a memorable (but in the wrong way) holiday with her. That week made us (me & sister) realise how bad the alcoholism was, and we were able to talk through loads of remembered childhood experiences and so many pennies dropped. Mum had always been nice in the day and nasty in the evening - as kids we used to say she was 'in a mood' - but it was because she was drunk. She always forgot what had happened in the evenings - because of the drink.

In the following years we tried talking and reasoning with her, but she never recognised the problem. All we could do was try to control the amount of alcohol available. That worked to a certain extent, but she was damned good at hiding her own supplies. Could you try to do this? How is she getting the booze on holiday? Does she bring it with her or buy it there?

I never holidayed with my mum again, and told her why (when she was sober). She harrumphed a bit but didn't pursue the issue.

I also made sure my kids never saw her drunk. Luckily she only drank after about 8pm so they were either in bed or simply not around. You should not let her be around your kids if she's drunk, kids don't understand drunkenness (see above re being 'in a mood').

But you said that she had said that if you didn't go with her you would be depriving the kids of a holiday. That's nonsense if you are just "depriving" them of a stressful drunken holiday in favour of a relaxed happy more sober holiday.
It sounds as though your mum is very good at putting herself first and you need to become better at putting yourself and your children first.

I don't see why the fact she won't go away without you, is actually your problem? It much more sounds like her attempt to guilt you into believing you shouldn't go without her than the other way around.