how bad is stonewalling?

[tetleytea]

My OH has always had this tendency but i've tried hard to overlook it. But in the last year or so it's really started to get to me :( We've talked and talked over the situation that usually sets it off to try to clear the air.

He's admitted that he knows he does it, and that it's infantile...but says it's his kind of "last resort" reaction. I completely disagree - to me it seems more of a default reaction so he doesn't have to express disagreement.

Anyone else got OHs that does this? Do you put up with it?

I always feel really appalled when I read about men who do this - so I just wanted to offer my sympathy. I think it's absolutely unacceptable. It's unkind and unhelpful - and seems to be done with the intention of 'punishing' the other person.

He says it's a last resort - ie. he is no longer prepared to discuss, he wants to 'win' by just stopping talking.

If you love him and think that he is a good person then I think you should make clear that it has to stop - explain to him that if he is trying to achieve anything by doing it it doesn't work. What about joint counselling?

Is it something he learned in his own childhood? It's probably a reaction/ or a copying of something his parents did - it's a sign he can't deal with emotion.

to be honest, I think it's actually cruel.

It's an attempt to hog power. Conversations and discussions will only happen on his terms or not at all.

Very disrespectful. My ex used to do this all the time so it would be a deal breaker for me now.

one thing that might help - a friend of mine had this problem with her DH - she told him that when he was so angry with her he couldnt speak, he had to go for a walk. ie. remove himself from the house so as not to poison the atmosphere. I don't think this is a long term solution, because in the end your partner needs to learn how to communicate properly - but it might help break the cycle.

Sometimes it is a defense mechanism against someone who will not STFU. Are you having repeated arguments about the same issue? If so, you need to find some way of resovling it/agreeing to disagree on it because otherwise every time you argue about it he will switch off because he feels that he has made his position clear and there is no use talking about it.

Psychological studies have shown (will try to find links) that ignoring someone has a much more powerful effect emotionally than shouting or hitting. That's why parents are often advised to ignore children's bad behaviour - ignoring takes away the person's power to control a situation. Ignoring bad behaviour in a child is a good thing but in other situations like yours it can be very damaging. It can make you feel powerless and frustrated, and it sounds like this is what's happening. My DH has a slight tendency to do this but I know it's not intentional and as soon as I point it out to him he either starts talking again or asks for time to think and comes back to talk about it later. Would your DH do either of these things? If you point the stonewalling out and your DH flatly refuses to do anything about it then I think it is a bit worrying as that would indicate that he isn't bothered about the hurt he causes you.

Sorry - stonewalling is when you shut off completely, basically sulking! Stony silence,no communication, monosyllabic (sp?)replies, ignoring other person unless absolutely necessary....

Thanks for that waterrat.We've done 1 session of joint counselling - and that was when he talked about it and admitted it was infantile etc. He knows it goes back to his childhood. He has huge difficulty with emotion. I used to be able to handle that but now we have a child together and comminication has become much much more difficult.

Now he doesn't want to go back to counsellor - he's understood that i want to separate and can't see any point in continuing

Wow! You lot are fast! I put this in AIBU and then had to explain what it meant - i've obviously had my nose in too many psychology books.

He does it a lot in one particular situation - when we're with my family, despite that fact that we've talked about the situation over and over again to try to find a way to keep both of us "happy". I can't help but conclude that its primadonna behaviour on his part.He did it all day on our daughter's 3rd birthday but something hadn't gone to plan and he felt excluded (despite us already talking about it)

oops - i meant because something hadn't gone to plan...

There's a psychologist called John Gottman who has spent twenty years studying relationships - he found that just by watching the way a couple communicate with each other, he could tell whether they would stay together or not.

There were four behaviours he noted - and if even one of them was present when he observed the couple, the likelihood was that the relationship wouldn't last. He calls these behaviours the 'four horseman of the apocalypse', and one of them is stonewalling. I suggest you google him and have a look at some of his work - you might find it interesting. (The other behaviours were criticism, defensiveness and contempt, in case you're interested).

Because stonewalling's not explicitly aggressive, I think some people can see it as no big deal. But it can be very damaging - it's essentially withdrawing oneself from the relationship. Interestingly, it's usually men who stonewall, rather than women.

Most relationships will show some of these behaviours, but the crucial thing is how you deal with them. If your husband can acknowledge how hurtful and damaging his stonewalling behaviour is, then I'm sure you can work through this. It would probably be worth seeing a counsellor though - have you thought about Relate? It's definitely worth thinking about - because the longer you leave it, the more resentful you'll get and the more damage your relationship will suffer.

Thanks steamedtreaclesponge and everyone who's posted. Yes, i spent last night reading the bit on stonewalling in Gottman's book Emotional Intelligence and it all seemed horribly familiar!

OH seems to be incapable of understanding the effect this behaviour has on me - he spent 20 minutes going on about how we could avoid it in the future by planning our holidays better (danger situation)- how I could communicate differently so that he wouldn't do it ....anything except admit what shitty behaviour it is!! I couldn't beleive it.He can't see the problem....so it makes me feel like i'm making a huge fuss over nothing, as another poster said, like it's no big deal.

Right, he is being a knob then and it's all about making you obey and indulge him ie he will only stop doing it when he gets his own way. Have you tried ignoring him right back? Eg rather than trying to make him talk/engage, just go about what you're doing without taking any notice of him.

is he 'stonewalling' for the duration of one argument - ie going round in circles / simply run out of things to say / fed up with the discussion / just waiting for the argument to be over.

or is he sulking for extended periods as a deliberate strategy

ie is it defensive or offensive?

If it's the first then different arguing tactics might work. If it's the second then he'll always do it.

"Talk to the hand" sounds cute, but it's not so funny when you're trying to have a conversation or a relationship all by yourself, is it?

Yours is the first relationship I've heard of where the offending partner admits this behaviour is unhelpful, then carries right on stonewalling. He's very determined to retain the upper hand, isn't he? The only approach I've tried with any success is along the lines of SGB's "carry on regardless". I used to give it fifteen minutes or so, then say "Since we can't discuss this to reach an agreement, I'm going to do X,Y,Z as I feel it's the best compromise. If you want to talk further, I'll be in the kitchen/bath/pub."

It did absolutely nothing to resolve the problem, but helped my sanity!

but garlicbutter if the argument is going

• I think A
• I think B
• I think A
• I think B
• I THINK A!!!
• i think B
• I THINK A, A! A!! A!! YOU IDIOT IT'S A
• I thi..
• I'M TELLING YOU IT'S A!!!!

(silence)

• DON'T JUST SIT THERE WATCHING THE TV..IT'S A, ADMIT IT WHY DON'T YOU.

(silence)

• RIGHT I AM OFF TO DO A RIGHT NOW!

you may call it the 'stonewalling' others may call it 'waiting for things to calm down'

Sure, but Tetley's posts lead me to believe she does know what she's talking about.

No, it's not waiting for things to calm down because the examples I know always continue once the partner is just pleading to talk normally

If someone says ok we aren't getting anywhere so I'd like to stop this argument and im not going to discuss it - let's calm down - that is one thing. But deliberately refusing to speak to your partner at all is unkind and very aggressive. It's a continuation of an argument isn't it? You know you are upsetting your partner so it's definitely not a way of calming things down!
If you are too angry to talk then leave the room or the house or say to your partner ok I need 15 minutes alone now.

I think what we are talking here is actually about using stonewalling to wind someone up or get the upper hand - not to reduce tension. Urgh I think it's really unacceptable

Also if you get to the point that your relationship is breaking down over it then surely you have to accept that as a method of communication it isn't working.

One particular situation when OH does this is when we go and stay at my sister's house in the summer - we live a long way away. He's already fully in agreement with all the practicalities, the fact that we go there etc etc, gets on well with my family. But he says that i exclude him from things. I try very hard not to do this and make a big effort to try to include him in everything, to make decisions together etc. Deep down i feel he resents how happy i am being with my family, how much our daughter loves being with her cousins etc and when things don't go to his liking, stonewalling me is what happens.

We've talked and talked over these things many times but it still happens.

I don't think it's helpful for me to ignore him back. My point is that we have to communicate like adults - especially for our daughter's sake

We reached breaking point a couple of months ago when he reacted in this way when i was ill (becasue IHO i excluded him) and it was the final straw.

TT: does he make it clear what he means by you 'excluding' him? It sounds like what he wants is you focussing all your attention on him all the time and putting his whims ahead of everyone else's. Because from what you've said you are making an extra effort to make sure he feels included (it can happen that a partner staying with the other partner's big family feels a little bit sidelined, same as a new partner introduced into a group of longstanding friends can feel left out). Can you think of specific incidents that triggered these pathetic tantrums of his? You don't have to share them with everyone on here of course, but if you make a list it might help to see a pattern and work out what it's really all about. If it's completely random, then he's doing it to upset you and keep you on high alert all the time. If it's a matter of him spitting the dummy when someone else's wishes take priority over his (eg he wants to watch something on TV but the DC want to watch something else and the majority vote wins) then he's childish and selfish.

...the problem is that he won't take any initiative and say "this is bugging me/ I don't like this/agree with this", or even shout "you're a cow!" at me for doing X, which would be preferable. He just retreats and stonewalls, even for the whole day. When we are with my family or other people it's horrible because there's such tension, and everyone picks it up.

AS i said before, he did it for the whole of our daughter's 3rd birthday - an otherwise lovely day... because of a small difference of opinion about where we should have her cake, at home or in the park.

To me it's unworkable, not even so much for the fact that he reacts that way - we all have our weak points - but for the fact that he's perfectly willing to wreck our day by doing it. THAT to me is very arrogant.

that is just awful. I agree that sounds unworkable - if he can do it for prolonged periods over minor issues - and while other people are around, then it's really deeply ingrained as a response. It's sad for him, he's going to lose you - because he won't tackle it. But it sounds as though you are pretty clued up and emotionally articulate and have tried to help him see that it's a problem - then what more can you do?

It's interesting to hear that he wants to control it by ensuring that the world around him doesn't 'trigger' it...instead of seeing that it's his own response that is the problem.

He sounds as though he could do with some intensive therapy...but that's his own issue...

And as you say, your daughter will begin to pick up on it as she gets older - and it's simply not acceptable for a parent to react like this.

I dont think this is quite as simple as stonewalling , often people dont realise their doing this and will stop and apologise when its pointed out to them. Your H sounds calculated , controlling and manipulative . Sulking through out his daughters birthday is absurd .

I think the only time he will stop the stonewalling is when its no longer having the desired effect , in which case he will probably employ some other tactic to control you. He clearly wants to be the centre of attention and its clear your putting a lot of effort into him , so in effect it works .

Frankly i wouldnt spend time with him if he cant behave properly , id visit your family alone , same as you would with a sulky teen

Tetley , you say its his default reaction and a way to avoid expressing disagreement . Unless he does this to his boss or other adults then hes choosing to do this and yes it is his default reaction , but only with you . I bet your family have to bite their lip when he behaves like that in front of them.

Re expressing disagreement , i really dont think this is what it is at all. People who feel strongly about something say so , they dont sulk and pout . I think he doesnt express disagreement because there isnt any , in that there really isnt anything wrong . I bet its only after youve tiptoed around him , tried to jolly him up ect that hell sulkily pout it was about a cake or something equally petty.

I know youve called it stonewalling , and it is , but its also a controlling behaviour and as such is emotionally abusive . Interesting that hes thought up ways for you to change your behaviour to make sure it doesnt happen again.

Yes, it's abusive, controlling behaviour. The idea is to keep you constantly aware of his thoughts, feelings, wishes, and that it's your job to obey and indulge and placate. So he picks a fight about anything and everything - it's not the thing, it's about demonstrating to you that he must be obeyed and you are Not Allowed to have a different opinion you will be thoroughly punished.
And the fact that his response when challenged is that your behaviour needs to change eg you should obey him and never disagree with him, is the perfect indication that he considers himself your owner and that he isn't going to change. Sadly if you stop being bothered by the stonewalling, he will move on to something else probably verbal abuse and then if that appears to stop working it will be physical abuse. Because he sees your marriage as tter of putting you in your place and keeping you there, as a battle he has to win.

tetleytea,

re your comment:-
"We've talked and talked over these things many times but it still happens".

And it will continue to do so. You cannot change such a person; he has previously stated that this is learnt behaviour from his parents. What's his family like, would you say dysfunctional i.e not emotionally healthy?. He sounds completely repressed emotionally and likely does not want to change because he at heart thinks he is not doing anything wrong. This is not good for you or your daughter actually and he is carrying on the dysfunction he saw back then with the two of you now so another generation this time i.e your child learns these damaging types of lessons her Dad did.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents; what are you both teaching your daughter about relationships now?. Actually two words suffice here, damaging lessons.

You have a choice re him ultimately, your child does not.

Oh dear, Tetley. You said My point is that we have to communicate like adults

Your point is that you both "have to" communicate like adults. In pursuit of this aim, you communicate like an adult ... and he excommunicates. There is an error in your statement above: you can't make him do what you feel you both have to do. He has discussed the matter with you, and informed you that he can't/won't communicate like an adult. I think I can see where this leaves you, and also that you don't want to see it for yourself.

He's telling you to put up or butt out, basically. In general terms, I'd present this to you as:
a] Call his bluff
b] Accept that this is how things are
c] Adopt assertion strategies that would be passive-aggressive in normal circumstances, and ignore the consequential mega-sulk.

However - I'm VERY concerned that he framed your illness as an insult to his fiefdom. That's a seriously bad indicator for your marriage. How's he going to react when big things go wrong, as they do in every adult life? Sulk and blame you for everything, yes?

Remind me why it's a good idea to have a partner ...