the me overhaul - get me fit to have healthy relationships

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

hello there again, went on a little break as I got kind of 'stuck' thinking about my past and present relationships. However, have FINALLY got to go for counselling, after waiting for 8 months, and am on my second session and feeling generally positive about it, but very down tonight for some reason.

Anyway, I thought i'd chart my progress on here as I have a thing where I won;t remember the insights I got to, definitely have done that in the past, and I don;t want to go through this digging into the past for nothing.

So in the first session we talked about my current situation, and the practicalities of day to day living (in horrible position with many things pressing on me, and no support, health, money, abusive (separated) husband, difficult relationship with parents, lost my sister, no close friends etc).

Then he asked me to think about why I felt I had ended up like this and at breaking point, and I said I felt I wasn't connected to reality, and I felt invisible in my own life, and like I didn't know what was real and what was not. Thought my past/ family had definately left me open to being gaslighted, but couldn't quite articulate why (all things I have posted on here/ other threads). and I know I don;t have a template for forming relationships, so don't know how really.

Anyway, the counsellor came back in the second session and challenged my perspective on it, he said it seemed to him that it wasn't that I was having trouble seeing reality, its that I was that i am TOO good at sustaining other peoples realities, and that its not reality I have a problem with, its myself. Such a powerful moment for me - its totally true, I hadn't managed to find the words to explain how I live before, but thats EXACTLY IT.

I spend every moment of every day trying to project/ perceive people's realities and feeding them/ sustaining them, and will lie and contradict myself and pretend black is white to do this. And I have no idea who I am or what I am feeling at any time.

I can think of so many examples of this happening, from accepting the lies and rewriting of reality from my mother, father and husband, for putting their needs first and not even realising i have a right to anything (or indeed, i don;t even know what I need or want really). to 'politeness sex/ snogs' where I didn't want to upset someones evening by rejecting them, to whole relationships based on this, to random conversations with strangers where I've thought they assume i am like them and don't want to differ, to doctors appointments where I can't make them hear whats wrong as I don't know how, and that I don't even know symptoms and deny them until i realise i've said the opposite of whats really happening days later, to living a fake life where everyone knows slightly different bits of my life and no one knows the reality...

Its hit me deeply, this idea, cos its so true, and its the closest to self knowledge I've ever come :-( It makes me so sad that I was brought up to be like this, not really a person, just a mirror/cypher for other people, and so used to not thinking about myself, I don't even know I exist, or who i am.

I feel like I've pretended to be a person for years and now I know I'm not real after all, no wonder i have trouble with getting close to people, I think most people can see I'm not really here.

and just while i remember the second session then was about the family script of my role compared to my sisters...

It made me realise that I was never supposed to have needs and be a person in and of myself, I was to fulfil other peoples needs in the family, and from birth, act as a support to other people. Never saw it like that, but I think to some extent its true.

So it didn't matter how much I tried to grow up, stop being childish, stop being selfish, spoilt, careless, immature... It didn't matter how fast I tried to turn into what was wanted, how i struggled and subjugated my own needs and thoughts, it was always going to be too slow, as I was supposed to be born fulfilling an adult role, not growing into one. At least that makes me realise why i never measured up, i couldn't, it wasn't me failing.

That led me on to thinking how, when my sister died, that it tore the glue right out of the family, and tore my heart out too, as she was the person who made me feel most like I was valued as a person. It also made a thought rise to the surface... that my parents would have been so much happier if it had been me that died, not her. I had had this thought before but dismissed it as being meladramatic and adolescent, but this time I can see it for what it really is. A sad sad truth. I am sure they'd deny it, but I have a quiet voice inside me that knows its true. It would have been so much better for them that way round, the main event to stay and the supporting act to go would have made so much less impact on the family, emotionally and practically.

And that makes me sad. Its horrible to think that you're just not worth that much. I think it would have been better for me too if it had been that way round. I feel like I am in some never ending hell, fighting and fighting and never getting anywhere. Its ironic that my deepest darkest fear is being alone and unloved... and I've only just noticed i've been living my worst nightmare for years.

oh and one last thing - am sorry for posting such long posts, brevity has never been my strong point, particularly when I am trying to work things out as i go.

Well, thank you for getting this far, if indeed anyone does, it will probably seem terribly self indulgent in the morning when I have my happy face on again. But just now it seems important to make a record of what I am finding out, as i have got such a loose hold on myself, that if I run into anything that contradicts what I am learning, I will erase it from my brain - which is probably why i've got to such a ripe old age and am only just learnings this stuff.

This way I have these things written down, so hopefully will be able to interrogate insights and interpretation of relationships and me, without losing sight of the key points.

anyway, sorry for going on and on, you've probably slipped into a coma at your screen...

I've read it. I can empathise with much that you have said.

It seems to me, that you are in touch with the real you, because you have acknowledged that little voice that tells you the truth, however unpalateable, that voice that is your instinct. That voice is you.

Keep writing it here, it is not self indulgent, it's you wanting to be real. There is not a single thing self indulgent about that. It's what you are entitled to.

Yep- keep posting, well done you- you are being so brave- some people go all their lives without looking at themselves and trying to sort out their issues.
You do not need to apologise- you are not being self indulgent- you are allowed to express how you are feeling and this is a great way to do it.

I hope that you are proud of yourself- you are doing so well- very quickly into your counselling you are allowing yourself to face up to some really deep issues- some people can go for years of counselling and spend the whole time skirting around the problems because they are too painful.
This self discovery is a journey and I really admire you for taking the first step- please keep posting- take care. xx

I am listening and I am interested in your journey.

I think writing it all down is actually a really good idea, and something you should definitely keep doing.
I had lots of aha! moments when I had counselling that I should have written down, it would have been really useful to have them to go back to.

Your counsellor sounds very perceptive, it sounds like this is the first time someone is actually valuing and validating your feelings. Well done for having the courage to do this.

Here's one of my favourite links, which I think is probably relevant to your situation. If it's made it to a Wiki article you can't be alone!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

It's about the distortion that you experience when what you believe clashes with what you perceive. It sounds like your whole life you've been squinting at the world in a funny way, trying to make the evidence fit what you've been told, and it's not surprising that you suddenly feel adrift as you cut loose from the fakery. Don't be afraid - the real world is there as it always was, actually easier to cope with once you learn to look at it straight. You yourself are ever so real and just as important as anyone else (more important than some!).

It may well be uncomfortable for a while as you readjust. Hopefully your counsellor, who sounds wise, will be able to help you with the process.

Am On a bus but just wanted to say thanks for your responses, wrote so much I thought no one would ever get through it. And if you did you'd say pull yourself together woman and stop whitening!

Am going to another session tomorrow so will report back after!

I am posting on the fly, but want you to know I've read your posts and relate to much that you say.

One of the most helpful things in my experience has been keeping a journal, which I never censor, edit or re-read. I just write and write and write in it.

When ones thinks about it, one really needs to develop a relationship with oneself first and foremost. For those of us who were forbidden to be ourselves it is all the more pressing.

Also, it is nice and a great relief to discover that all the things certain people told you about yourself are untrue and were generally just said by them to manipulate you in the moment. So there is no reason to avoid getting to know yourself as you aren't the monster interested parties might have portrayed to get what they wanted regardless of truth or damage.

Double, I am really loving your posts and hope you'll keep it up! I empathise, too. It was a hell of a shock to realise "me" was nothing much more than a canvas for others to paint on. Hheh, worse than that, I used to work out what they wanted to look at and paint it for them!

I'm going through a very odd (irritatingly long) phase at the moment, where I am far less than ever before, to outside eyes at least. But this is because I'm "growing myself back". I didn't expect it to happen in a flash, and it bloody isn't! But, now and again, I notice how different I am from ... what? From the fakeries that passed for "me", and from my family members. It's all good :)

Thank you for a brilliant thread. x

I hope you keep posting here. I found that really interesting OP and I look forward to seeing how it develops.

Thank you everyone! So much support, & also it sounds Luke this is ringing bells for some people which is astounding- feel less alone & foolish.

But how could I not KNOW that I had no sense of self? I am observant, perceptive, quite bright, not to mention a tendency to self analyse constantly... How could I miss something this bleeding obvious? Cos here's the really awful thing, I was pretty accepting of most people, but I absolutely despised weak people... Always thought it was vos I was so strong & it was against my moral code... But now I know it's because I am weaker than everyone & my brain wouldn't let me see it :(

Thank you everyone! So much support, & also it sounds Luke this is ringing bells for some people which is astounding- feel less alone & foolish.

But how could I not KNOW that I had no sense of self? I am observant, perceptive, quite bright, not to mention a tendency to self analyse constantly... How could I miss something this bleeding obvious? Cos here's the really awful thing, I was pretty accepting of most people, but I absolutely despised weak people... Always thought it was vos I was so strong & it was against my moral code... But now I know it's because I am weaker than everyone & my brain wouldn't let me see it :(

What an interesting thread!

Can I just say though, about the title 'Get me fit to have healthy relationships'- that comes across like your whole purpose of counselling is still about others. You should be wanting to get mentally fit and healthy just for you- then the 'healthy relationships' will come as a by-product of that.

Does that make sense?

I truly hope I've not in any way offended you- I think what you are doing is admireable.

ok so catching up with posts now:

first sorry about the typo... obviously Luke has little to do with anything (i wonder who he is or why he appeared in my post!) - should have been like!

Garlicbutter that so cool you are going on this journey too... can I be nosey and ask what you mean about being far less to external eyes whilst you regrow inside? and how did you start going about it? I feel all over the place... oh and your canvas analogy - yup, spot on, i've been going out and buying the canvas and paints then painting it as a beautiful view for them whilst running along side them so its all they see...

anniegetyourgun - thats exactly the phrase i was trying to get at... i've been living a life of complete cognitive dissonance, feeling so uncomfortable all the time and wondering if i'm going mad because of it.

thisishowIfeel thanks for your words of encouragement. I don't know how to listen to that little voice though, and often i don't recognise it actually either...

Terrafirma yes, i guess it is nice to realise i'm not the monster i have been told... its been a real revelation, as my parents always told me i was selfish, and then various other people have through my life too, so i totally believe it now, and have no perspective on whether anything i ask for is selfish or not anymore. But I was thinking... if i naturally relate to people who want a cipher/ slave to sacrifice themselves on their altar (and they would want me around too i guess)... then the 'confirmation' i got of various people saying it was a false confirmation right? so maybe i am not selfish... thats a pretty engrained notion to shift though...

spooktrain, yes my councellor is really very very good - i have had a couple of previous attempts at councelling, and i've felt they've been terribly well meaning but totally useful at helping me understanding anything, this guy is great and for the first time I am talking to someone who can really see things and give these great insights... 9 more sessions, i hope he keeps up the good work!

sorry if I missed anyone out, i feel bad not replying to everyone but am wondering if thats a symptom of the journey am trying to go on... or common politeness? not sure which...

ah i did forget a rather important one... yes mobly, thats uncomfortably perspective... yes I still am orientating myself around others, you are so right.

Have been thinking about this and i get panicky when i think of a future thats about me and not about me getting into 'happy ever after' relationships... i really dont want to be by myself, really really not...

worried that its a catch 22... i won't ever get into a healthy relationship whilst i want to so much, so i want to so much... but I feel sick at the idea :-(

so here is my third musing for the night...

went to see the counsellor again tonight, he was good as usual, but i didnt have another big revelation tonight - maybe thats good as its enough to deal with from the last 2 weeks!

Tonight we talked about my parents, their relationship when I was growing up. I didnt really make any headway in understanding it, partly because its such gone over ground. This is where it all started really, and the most obvious 'bad childhood' type of stuff. But its obscured by the telling I think, I have tried hard to make sense of it all, and to create a narrative around it, ignoring some bits, emphasising others, and as we now know, I am not exactly the best at being able to see, remember and commentate on my own reality... so its hard to get into it afresh.

Also there is a big part of me saying 'stop whining, its maudlin and pathetic, what a fuss about nothing, hackneyed whining and blaming parents for my weaknesses, fat middle aged woman sitting there whining, what a bloody stereotype'... partly from me, partly from people I've tried to tell over the years and lacked the words, and taken their attitudes as so much more real than my own...

So came out thinking I've missed out telling the counsellor about really key things, and I've just seen my lack of self awareness in action, stopping me from getting to know me... damn it, feels like head butting a wall.

Things i forgot: my mums imaginary worlds, my sisters descent into ill health, my secret binge eating, constant listening at doors, paranoid need to be private and have space/ boundaries, my mums educational journey in my teens, my constant quest for perfection as armour, my first time failing... sorry that list is more for me to look at and remember to see if anythings relevant next week

But now I know it's because I am weaker than everyone & my brain wouldn't let me see it

Bollocks! That's not weakness. It takes remarkable mental & emotional abilites to be able to be "most things to some people" without cracking up. Well, I did crack up eventually but I'd been performing multiple roles simultaneously for several decades. The image of you running alongside with your thoughtfully-provided canvases made me laugh out loud :) Perfect!

Bullies typically pick on the strong, the impressive, the popular: the high performers. Not sure why, but it doubtless has much to do with how they see their 'reflection' on you ... not in you. You know what I mean?

I won't bore you with my often-told story, but I'd like to share a couple of things. My first counsellor told me to write a list of 15 really good things about me. It took me over a week. Afterwards, I was to write down five things I really want. I couldn't do it - I gave her a list of woolliness, like the stuff Miss World contestants say "I want" was an alien concept - though I was/am pretty good at "You want".

Building a loving relationship with yourself sounds like so much claptrap until the day you realise you haven't got such a relationship. And that you want, need & deserve one. That's what I'm doing now. As the old me was a skinny, fashionable, fast-moving, external success story ... I'm being a dumpy, frumpy, boring, external failure for now. This is what I needed to do - only me, we follow different, if similar, paths - because I need to love me not for "what" I am but for who I am inside. That person, I'm happy to say, is learning to trust me :)

I used to say I wished I could feel loved for myself, regardless of what I looked like, what I earned or the people I knew. Of course, I couldn't be - because I didn't know how to love myself that way.

I'm so sorry, I've done a neat job of hijacking your thread!! For goodness sake, don't take anyone else's expereince as a template for your own. It sounds as though you've found a good counsellor. He should be able to help you hear your own inner voice, then you'll start to know what your 'pathway' looks like :)

Write some more about your family when you're ready. Do your best to write it as it felt to you then; don't judge your feelings. I see where your counsellor's going with it. Take it ever so gently, especially if it hurts. x

hey thanks garlicbutter, not a thread hijack at all, dont worry am not going to follow someone else's template, its just really amazing to me that anyone else in the world is going through anything similiar, and its great to compare notes! It sounds like you almost had to stop being the person they thought you were/ wanted you to be, so that you could start working out who you are. I think thats very brave.

I actually did write some more about my family, but just cut it as it got too miserable at the end, but I think i will post it after all...

(am glad i made you laugh... damn canvases, so heavy to carry, biceps creaking to keep my elbows up, and keep grazing my knees on the edges!)

heres the post i had second thoughts about, any wise words welcome on this one please!
......

oh well, one more post before bed, in case i forget tomorrow...

here's a thought: i thought bad things with my family stopped happening after I left uni, and it was just the same old patterns repeating themselves... but thats sooooo not true.

Thinking about MY key relationships (this is hard, good mental exercise i guess):

CHILDHOOD: 2 key relationships, only one properly positive
very close to my father, idolise him, protect him from my mum (think about that amy, what kind of person lets a 7 yr old be a buffer for his wives anger)
very close to my sister, protect her, but she does alot for me too, people often mistake us for twins, my life revolves around her

TEENS: 2 relationships, one positive but distant
my sister went to uni, so i lost her in a way, but still very emotionally close, although i was really jealous of her so was probably a nightmare! when I went to uni we were in better contact, although our paths and personalities started to diverge
Dad still there i thought, but actually never wanted to talk to me on the phone

TWENTIES:
My mum and dad 'got back together again' (although they'd never split up, just lived in constant warfare and hate)... my mother phoned to tell me the good news, and from that moment on, everything got weird between me and my father. She was crazily jealous of our relationship (in a disturbing way actually... slightly weird oedipal (?) overtones there, kind of disgusting actually from my point of view), i have virtually NEVER seen him alone again, my mother accompanied him everywhere (literally everywhere), if we start to talk about anything that doesn't involve her/ interest her she's a bitch and my dad instantly falls silent.
So, i lost my dad :-( and recently i've started to think, what kind of father lets his wife stop him having a relationship with his daughter?

LATE 20s: 2 somewhat troubled relationships
My sister almost dies and we are very very close again just for a while. After we drift a bit apart, but although our lives have completely diverged, I know she loves me still... although fewer moments of true closeness, its difficult as she has affiliated herself completely with our mother, and pressures me to 'be nice', I am the trouble maker... but i rationalise this by thinking, she had to move back in with them as she became so poorly, and she has to make the best of this situation.

Get married, most of my energy and focus goes into him... but the sacrifice is all worth it i think.

Give up any attempt to be close to my dad, that door has shut, its like we never were. my mum is now closest to me (laugh like a drain... in a its so bizarre its not funny kind of way).

THIRTIES

She dies.
DH hates me.

I have no one.

i am sorry, i am so upset again, writing that has been the hardest thing. I am so upset, why is there no one here that cares? my heart hurts.

Its not true though, I have my DS (12months)... which to be perfectly honest is the only reason i haven't topped myself. But its kind of one sided (and should be too), i love him more than anything, but he isn;t an adult support. He can;t be the only thing in my life, its too dangerous, for him and me.

My parents don't know I've split with h, they don't know that my sister was probably misdiagnosed and she died of a syndrome that explains all her illnesses and pain, and that i have it too, although prob not the immediately fatal type,and ds might have it too. They do know h treats me badly though, thats impossible to disguise, but they don't even blink an eyelid. I secretly give my dad money each month, but thats not exactly a healthy father-daughter relationship. The thing is, I don;t even hate him a little bit, I am just hurt. My mother talks non stop about my cousin who has left her h, who hit her and has moved back in with my aunt (her mother)... its like rubbing salt into the wound to know she would never even consider that if I told her what my life was really like, it would just be about her.

I don't know if this will help you, but it helped me immensely.

I started to draw. I'm not very good at it, but that doesn't matter.

Things came out of my drawings that I did not expect. For example, the pictures of my "mother" were always with her facing away from me, always the back of her head. The therapist noticed that, not me!

The pictures of me always had me blue, blue clothes, blue things. It showed me that there was a gender issue going on. She saw me as a boy, and she believes that all boys and men are evil She believes that I am evil. She chopped off my hair, and I looked like a boy, she laughed at my distress.

I am not evil, now I am princess bluebell, and princess bluebell looks after little me, and gives her the hugs that I should have had, and allows me/her to have pretty "sticky out" dresses if I want them. I have recently had images of the little me laughing, which fills my heart with more joy than I can begin to say.

I have reams and reams and reams of these pictures. One of the first ones I did was of a mother holding a baby and enveloping the baby in love and protection. That spoke a million words. It seemed to speed the process up. It's funny, I often did them while dd was drawing and colouring too. She always knew exactly who was who in the pictures, even at five or six. In her I can see John Bradshaw's wonderchild.

I'll keep them forever.

Such a beautiful post, thisis :)

Double, your post made me go - ouch!

I felt very sad for the little girl whose FATHER leaned on HER and whose mother was not protective, adoring, gentle or the similar things a mother ought to feel & do for her children. I felt sad for the teenager lost on her own, disappointed in her dad. In her twenties, that young woman must have felt so confused when her parents' relationship excluded her and her father turned his back. To cap it all, the one truly loving relationship she's known ends in death. It's so tragically inevitable that she married a man who couldn't love her well: she lacked suitable templates, how could she have chosen better?

Your dad sounds a right twerp.

My mother now admits to having felt sexual jealousy towards me from the moment of birth (!) Damn strange, but it explains a lot of the misguided ideas I used to have about myself. It's Electra for women, though both our mothers seem to have invented a complex for us which we didn't have I would have stabbed my dad before I shagged him!!

Today i just feel wrecked, just crashed really, bone weary & half dead.
:(

:) You might find it's due to all the mental & emotional processing. See if you can get an early night; you might need to dream a lot. x

I'm reading these posts, but it's late, so not processing too much, just that how insightful, I can certainly identify with lots you have said. You are not alone..

Double...thanks for posting, I shall watch this thread with interest