the me overhaul - get me fit to have healthy relationships

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

hello there again, went on a little break as I got kind of 'stuck' thinking about my past and present relationships. However, have FINALLY got to go for counselling, after waiting for 8 months, and am on my second session and feeling generally positive about it, but very down tonight for some reason.

Anyway, I thought i'd chart my progress on here as I have a thing where I won;t remember the insights I got to, definitely have done that in the past, and I don;t want to go through this digging into the past for nothing.

So in the first session we talked about my current situation, and the practicalities of day to day living (in horrible position with many things pressing on me, and no support, health, money, abusive (separated) husband, difficult relationship with parents, lost my sister, no close friends etc).

Then he asked me to think about why I felt I had ended up like this and at breaking point, and I said I felt I wasn't connected to reality, and I felt invisible in my own life, and like I didn't know what was real and what was not. Thought my past/ family had definately left me open to being gaslighted, but couldn't quite articulate why (all things I have posted on here/ other threads). and I know I don;t have a template for forming relationships, so don't know how really.

Anyway, the counsellor came back in the second session and challenged my perspective on it, he said it seemed to him that it wasn't that I was having trouble seeing reality, its that I was that i am TOO good at sustaining other peoples realities, and that its not reality I have a problem with, its myself. Such a powerful moment for me - its totally true, I hadn't managed to find the words to explain how I live before, but thats EXACTLY IT.

I spend every moment of every day trying to project/ perceive people's realities and feeding them/ sustaining them, and will lie and contradict myself and pretend black is white to do this. And I have no idea who I am or what I am feeling at any time.

I can think of so many examples of this happening, from accepting the lies and rewriting of reality from my mother, father and husband, for putting their needs first and not even realising i have a right to anything (or indeed, i don;t even know what I need or want really). to 'politeness sex/ snogs' where I didn't want to upset someones evening by rejecting them, to whole relationships based on this, to random conversations with strangers where I've thought they assume i am like them and don't want to differ, to doctors appointments where I can't make them hear whats wrong as I don't know how, and that I don't even know symptoms and deny them until i realise i've said the opposite of whats really happening days later, to living a fake life where everyone knows slightly different bits of my life and no one knows the reality...

Its hit me deeply, this idea, cos its so true, and its the closest to self knowledge I've ever come :-( It makes me so sad that I was brought up to be like this, not really a person, just a mirror/cypher for other people, and so used to not thinking about myself, I don't even know I exist, or who i am.

I feel like I've pretended to be a person for years and now I know I'm not real after all, no wonder i have trouble with getting close to people, I think most people can see I'm not really here.

Thanks for all support, feeling pretty down still.

I see how the drawing stuff could be useful, but actually would be very scared about what would come out, not sure I like the idea of letting my subconscious loose with a pencil. What does that say about me?

"... not sure I like the idea of my subconscious loose with a pencil. What does that say about me?"

I think it says that your counselling journey has already been filled with insights and tough stuff for you to handle and that you're not quite ready to handle what might be lurking in your subconscious.

I don't believe it says anything negative at all about you. You clearly have the courage to follow this path, but do remember that there is no need to over-burden yourself whilst doing so. Its important to maintain a balance between facing up to the stuff in the dark places and you being able to continue daily life in an emotionally healthy way.

Do keep posting and I hope that you continue to find support and strength from both the counselling process and this online journal.

Hi there,
thanks midnightschild you're right, I don't have to hurtle full pelt through this process and am feeling distinctly over burdened. I have a very tough everyday situation which is a constant assault on my mental and physical wellbeing, so i have to have some strength left.

Thinking of strength, thats the subject of my post this very early morn.

can strength be a vice not a virtue ?

have been thinking more about this strength/ weakness thing I mentioned earlier. In part sparked off by something the counsellor said. He said there must have been something in me to survive through circumstances that would have left someone crushed and broken. I guess he was trying to make me see myself positively? But i wonder ...
So I used to despise 'weak people'... I can see now that this is because my father, the parent I had a bond with, was a weak person, and even though I always blamed my mother and not my father for the situation, maybe a bit of me knew that my father was not behaving as a father should either.

Its really hard for me to acknowledge that as i am still that little girl who adores her daddy inside, and really, thats the only positive parental relationship i had ... but i wasn't really positive was it?

What kind of man lets a 7 year old girl defend him to his wife? what kind of man lets his wife be unrelentingly mean and aggressive and scary and have a reign of terror for decades? what kind of man sacrifices his relationship with his daughter to please his wife? what kind of man asks for money every time he sees his daughter, even through her maternity leave and pregnancy when he knew she didn't have enough money to look after her baby and pay bills?

God, it doesn't sound good does it :-( and it was all there for me to see, I just didn't acknowledge it, i guess cos i had to have one parent i thought loved me, and i so desperately wanted to be proud and look up to someone.

Not sure what to do about that feeling, as its really really hard to even address a little bit, so enough on that for now... but there we go... is that why I hate 'weak people'? is that why i feel totally betrayed in the past when i friend has been 'weak'? and not stood by me, or listened to someone else being mean and not corrected them. I guess thinking about it, I mean weak as in the biblical sense... was it John who denied Jesus three times before the cock crowed? something like that... so I mean weakness in a big betraying way if its big enough to go into the bible i think?

And lets take this idea of strength vs weakness further. I said earlier that I was the weak one, maybe i'm not then? maybe I am strong after all?

But if I am strong, I am not sure thats served me well over the years... strength gives people the capacity to endure, and that capacity has allowed me to stay in unstayable situations all my life, and not break. If you are weaker, you get to remove yourself from those situations sooner... so therefore, is being strong a disadvantage in some ways.

Was thinking about that in terms of domestic violence situations. There is an assumption that the wife is weak and crushed by her violent husband. And yes in one sense that is true. But also holding onto the constant hope that things will change, and having the strength to endure in that situation... thats also a misplaced kind of strength isn't it? and its only when that person gets to their breaking point that they seek to change...

So this poses 3 questions for me:

• is strength always a virtue? it enables you to stay on a more difficult path for longer - you have a harder life if you are strong
• or is it strength combined with a lack of something else that creates this problem? like self worth, or direction, or a sense of self (thinking about the things i am missing)... or something else altogether?
• so am i weak or strong? i don;t know why this seems to be such an important set of opposites for me, but it seems to be...

so as no one is reading this anymore, i feel miserable, but then does that mean i am still trying to define myself by others reactions?

I very much doubt no-one's reading, Double :)
(And how dare you call me no-one????!!!!)

People have always told me I'm strong; they still do. I don't listen to this anymore - I've developed an intense dislike of all those "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger" type aphorisms, too, for reasons you outlined above.

If I am defined by my so-called strength, then in order to assert my identity I must seek out situations which challenge this "strength", yes? Since my strength was most pronounced in circumstances where I was manipulated, derided and worse, then in a sense I benefited from seeking and enduring such abuse. Very silly of me, but this is what therapists mean when they talk about there being a payoff for all our behaviours. My (shared) experience is that, once you see your own payoffs, you automagically stop following the damaging thought & behaviour patterns they provoke. It's very hard to see your own; best done with guidance - and, once you've got the hang of it, fascinating to spot other people's!

I am neither strong nor weak. I'm a human being muddling through, like everyone else. I take my own responsibility. That's something your dad never seems to have managed, perhaps? I don't want to write much about your parents, as you're obviously making precious discoveries there for yourself. I do want to send you a supportive hug bottle of gin and a large Galaxy, though. It's hard work but it's worth it :)

thanks very much for making me laugh garlicbutter and sorry for calling you no one!

I agree about the strong thing, its just not true that whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger... it just grinds you down and makes you think you HAVE to endure in situations other people don't.

Iam getting very tired in the counselling sessions and coping with the hideousness of getting through each day. Its hard to clear any time or energy to focus on the counselling. I don't really remember much from the last 2 sessions - am i wasting them?

No, I think you do sort of shut down a bit when it gets too much. Might be a good idea to tell your counsellor you're finding it heavy going - they ought to be able to help you with that AND change the focus of your next session or two. Your head needs time to process stuff on its own!

The best thing about it all is the way your mind does the work, without your having to consciously push it. Good therapists get to learn what will set off constructive processes for you, however it does take quite a bit of communication for them to identify what works well for you. The first month or so is often about training each other

Your thread makes me miss therapy! I miss the guidance. I am getting some counselling next month (CBT, but it's free and I'll be making the most of it :) )

Have you thought about posting on Stately Homes about your mum & dad?

Have a lovely weekend, Double. You're worth good care & a few treats, remember.

counsellor has been amazing, so much better than in the past... has totally reframed my way of understanding what happened. i only get 12 sessions, and have had 5... already panicking at idea of them finishing, think i will back slide as soon as its not happening :-(

I'll try and remember the key things:

Big thought: the family script defined me by my relationship and role (usefulness to my sister and then to make everyone else happy). I was the only one acting/ expected to act in an adult role.

implications 1: no matter how much i was told i was childish and tried to grow up, i was never going to be able to do it fast enough, as they wanted someone more adult than they were themselves... even when i was a baby.

Implication 2: i was a role not a person, therefore any kind of personality or needs i had would be too much, whatever they were

Implication 3: its very like the story of 'my sisters keeper' although for different reasons, so i should in theory be v resentful to her, but am not cos she didn;t want this any more than me, and was the only person who saw me as a human

big thought: i was never allowed to develop a sense of self, and the way i describe how my efforts to do something for myself, its like i committed some disgusting dirty foul and unforgiven crime... my role was about adapting to other peoples needs and making life as smooth as possible for them, lying, cheating and saying black was white in order to do so... hell its more than that...

Implication 1: i don't even know if black is white or not... i dont have a grip on my reality, i dont even know what is true and whats not cos i cant think like that :-(

Implication 2: i dont know how I feel about anything, as i just channel other people emotions and think they're mine. Even if i can feel i don;t really feel something, i cant tell you what i do feel... i have no idea

Implication 3: i take responsibility for other people lives... i become the ultimate rescuer, nurturer and reality keeper for them

Implication4: i define myself by others, so that means if there is no one here, i dont exist, i fail to function... i cant even remeber things if they aent attached to someone else (hence the purpose of this thread, as this is all about me, so therefore wont be remembered for than a second...). I literally cant remember anything unless it feeds into someone elses reality - it really freaks me out

Big thought: although I dont yet have a sense of who i am, i have a sort of black and white negative sillouette... a sense of what i am definately not in some ways... so i can start to see myself as an outline, and then from there work out the insides...

implication 1: so defining me against others isn;'t totally bad, i can use it as a start to work out me

Implication 2: also, thinking about what my parents image is of me, and trying to articulate it, can help me decide what i am too... if only by me realising they were wrong!

sooo... this is the first time i've tried to think about myself like this...

i am NOT selfish, i am very giving and externally focused... and actually, being externally focused is a good thing, its a strong base for other things about me, not just an effect of a screwed up psyche!

I AM creative... but not in a 'sit in a darkened room and wait for inspiration from within' type of way. I take in my world, and what people say and the ideas they have, and then jump off them and turn them into something different. I just a few days ago realised that that type of creativity isnt inferior to the other kind... its just as cool (right? i hope/ think/ almost believe?). I also have ideas, and apply other peoples ideas in new ways to leap frog thinking...

this IS original thinking, as when i am brainstorming at work, no one can see where I've got the idea from, even though i feel i've taken it from someone else and its an obvious leap forwards...

humm, and there i run out actually... not sure if thats a good start or not really...

just another bit on family dynamics whilst i remember:

• there was never a place of space to have my my own self, personality, views and well, soul really. Nothing i did had any value... i was naturally brighter than my sister, so she needed 'protecting' from me, and i was selfish if i wanted to do anything that was 'hers'...

so short hair for me (looked like a complete freak), as long was for her, sciences for me, as arts for her, they asked for me to be kept down classes in ballet as i couldn;t reach her level, i was only allowed to be good at music as she decided she wasnt. But the thing was, i was better than her at sciences/ music but it doesnt mean to say i was actually good at them, i excelled at english but wasnt allowed to pursue it as it was hers... and if i did do well at something, it was cos i was naturally bright and found it effortless, and therefore was unfair.

This wasnt just guidelines, it was the LAW, and so i almost screwed up my uni chances by doing subjects i couldnt pass, and then revolted and changed a-levels, but was horrible and evil and out of control for doing this, and the family disgusting failure... and wasnt allowed to go to a sixth form college or retake the year... i had to do it all with one hand tied behind my back... so doing 3 a levels when i couldnt actually attend any classes for one, and only half of one of the others, due to time table clashes.

Then i carefully chose a sciencey sounding art (thank the lord for the social sciences!), so i was allowed to study it... bloody ironic considering my mother than went back to uni, did the same subject as my sister! and also did i masters in it like my sister (whilst pulling the promised funding for my ma a couple of weeks before, so i couldnt fund it myself as lost the place)... and then started a phd in it too... overtaking my sister!!! god, i only just thought about that!!!

but another thing, even when i did try and branch out to have different interests, i wasnt allowed as it was 'inconvenient' so i was almost forced into doing the same things as my sister... talk about not way to win.

I wasnt allowed any person space, any boundaries at all... people walked into the bathroom when i was using it (no lock, or burst through the lock), i had to have my door open at all times, had to sleep with it ajar. they would hear if i moved around, got up in the night, walked across the landing/ down the stairs... I wasnt allowed further than the top of our road (3 houses long road!), in a village of 250 people, as it wasnt 'safe' and they wanted to keep an eye on me. i wasnt allowed in the copse of trees (common ground opposite our house), as it was 'common' to play there... i was never allowed a lift to see friends, or allowed to invite friends round, or speak to them on the phone except in a public room, i wasnt allowed to put posters up in my room, or play music, or buy music, i didnt have the money to learn to drive, so was trapped completely. I wasnt allowed to the doctors on my own, i wasnt allowed on trains and buses on my own til i was 16.

I wasnt allowed to dislike any food they liked and it was forced down me even if i threw up after. and i wasnt allowed to eat anything if i was hungry, and the meal portions were tiny now i look back (probably healthier than the over eating thing i do now though, sigh). I used to sneak down in the early hours and make chocolate cornflake cakes in the dark, as these were ingredients that werent used often so quantities werent noticed so much... i used to keep it under my bed on greaseproof paper and eat a huge amount until i felt sick...

Heres a really gross thing... i used to crouch by my bed and pee into a cup then throw it out the window so they didnt know i gone to the loo. i still do it when i visit them :-(

when i was there last i turned off the baby monitor downstairs when DS cried, on my way up to him, then chatted and sung to him, forgetting to turn it off in the bedroom too... and they turned it back on downstairs so they could listen in, and even told me when i went downstairs like it was normal!

I cant phone anyone when am there, lucky for texts, so i can vent occasionally, but even then i turn off the key noises in case someone is listening through the wall...

I became good at being invisible as it was really the best thing for me to be, being noticed was awful (yet i craved being noticed too sadly)... i thought i was bad at being invisible as i was always told i was spoilt and selfish and put myself centre stage... but actually i've realised am an adept of becoming so boring and dull i fade away... even when i dont want to.

Thank you very much for your thoughts/implications post, Double. I'm going to take some time to apply your observations to my nascent self :)
Hence not replying to yoursecond, though I really want to! (I'm going to put my own stuff first, I reckon you'll get that.)
Sometimes I think I love you

Double, I hope you don't mind me barging in. But oh my god. Your post - especially recounting your past/childhood - I was shaking reading it.

I have had so many of the same experiences. From the big to the small.

My god. I applaud you for your strength in taking on this journey. I'm too scared to emulate you - yet - but your posts are profoundly moving for me and have given me hope. And made me uncomfortable, too, because I identify very much with what you say and wonder if perhaps this 'sense of self', or lack therof, could be the crux of issues I have too.

Thankyou so much for posting. I hope I haven't discomforted you by pushing in.

maku thanks so much for your lovely post, I really appreciate other people posting, & it gives me strength to know my journey rings bells with people... Makes me feel less alone.

Life has rather taken over the last few weeks; health & work both turning against me. Taking up the sessions just trying to deal with what's coming at me each second...

Notes for when I write a proper post:
Hurt of 'bring found out' as a bad person at eork is reliving my past family stuff. Won't move on truly til I get tid of that feeling.
I manage like a mum, or a servant manager... Like that p&g ad where you dont see tge mother just her hands & stuff supporting others. Kids throw their toys out the playpen if mummy changes her behaviour... Where is the perpective? More important, health or stupid work stuff?

Why do I have such a problem telling people I'm sick? Am ashamed, feel it's my fault feel they see a fat ugly bitch

Compensation behaviours vs treating myself well...