I regret having children

[SlowlyDyingInside]

That's just it, really. I have a 3 year old and a 9 month old. I gave up my career to become a SAHM. I love them but in an abstract way, because I have to and they don't deserve anything else. I do as much as I can with them, but I take no pleasure in them. My 3 yo in particular drives me to tears most days, and I rue the day she was born, my life has been beyond miserable ever since. I struggle to keep my temper with her and end up yelling at her. I feel like I'm turning into my own (completely useless) parents. All I can think about every day is killing myself. I feel trapped and can't see any way out other than just walking away/disappearing and leaving them to their father.

Am I the only one? Is it normal to regret having children? I don't have PND, btw. I did after my eldest and I think that's part of why I have difficulties with her. My baby, who was not planned, is an absolute doll, I sometimes wonder how life would have turned out if I'd had him first.

Not trying to be controversial and I don't want saving, I just feel lonely, I've got nobody to talk to about this.

Can really relate to you OP. Have 2 yr old DD & 3 mth old DS (bit of an accident). Have terrible depression & find myself saying/thinking all the things you have posted. Haven't found telling my GP or HV has helped at all (GP told me it was hard to believe I am depressed as I'm such a strong woman??). Antenatal care shit in this area sadly, too little staff, too many women needing help.

Unlike you I am going back to wrk in 12 wks and defo could not cope with being a SAHM. I'm just counting the days which is sad because I should be enjoying this time with my children as people constantly remind me which just adds to the guilty feelings.

I would agree with other posters on here that you perhaps need some work, not necessarily in the area you prev wrked in,so at least you have some yime when you're not just someones mum/wife etc.

I know I did x post, I had a pretty shite upbringing myself and you do sound exactly like me, its so weird the out of body shouting at your kids then feeling really bad I definitely do that I can feel my mums face come over me sometimes when i'm screaming at them (which I really do try not to do but sometimes it's impossible not to) and then I have to make it better by saying it's not them i dont like, it's the behaviour, I do this too! haha!! My mum is a lovely woman but was a very angry mum not her fault, she had a bad time of things, I always said I wouldn't do things the way she did but found myself being exactly like her and hating it and feeling even worse for it. I also find it hard to feel like I genuinely fit in, i too always feel a bit of a fraud, even though I know I'm not, i always feel like i have to justify everything I do. I think even before I had the kids I was a bit depressed but having them made me more so, still I wouldn't give em back for the world, i am sure you will feel the same soon, sorry about my last post hope it didn't make you feel bad. x

Slowly

I really feel for you. I can't offer advice because I totally understand. I hope that doesn't sound strange.

Grown women should be offered a 'Baby Think It Over Doll' before trying to get pregnant. It is not all sunshine and rainbows.

With you totally.

We moved to a new town 2 years ago and DS AND I have made lots of friends through his nursery and a club he goes to. These are simple, practical steps you can take to transform a significant aspect of your lives. How does that strike you as an option?

Sending you hugs and lots of empathy.

SDI, you are not alone. You bring up a lot in your post. Firstly, perhaps you are depressed. A chemical imbalance which can be fixed with medication. Speak to your GP about this.

Secondly, I would suggest you timetable an hour or so a day for play. Do not lead. Let your oldest decide what happens. Beyond the realms of keeping them safe, go with it. Know that you have chosen to do this for an allotted time and then go with it. It should decrease their demands on you. It will also give you insight into why you love them. Their weird ideas and notions, recognising their creativity and strange sense of the world around them may help you look at things differently. At the very least they will know you think of them as important enough to spend time with.

This will make them happier and you not beat yourself up, therefore happier.

I couldn't read this and not reply, even though I have no psychological training or experience.

You sound completely fabulous op. Interesting, intelligent and deep, and if I lived near you in would make you be my friend.

You write very well too. I am not trying to sound patronising. I suspect your previous career may have been in journalism or something else literary?
I relate to the feelings of not wanting to repeat the mistakes of your parents.
I think we all do to some extent though.
My mother controlled us through guilt and to my shame, it is my default parenting method.
Now my daughter is older, (10) I have explained this to her to a certain extent and unlike, my own parents, I often apologize to her. Often.

Ok, so working is out for now.
Can you study something? You are far too intelligent to find total contentment in drawing with crayons and praising abc's no matter how noble these things are.

You could study something completely gratuitous. One of those courses that probably won't lead to a job, but are very very interesting...philosophy, gender studies, creative writing...

Personally I know to be a good mother, I need to surround myself with inspiration.
I am not a patient person. So I find people who are. I read parenting books and blogs.

And most importantly, I do stuff for myself. I am never More interested in my children and their long stories, than when I have walked the dog. Alone. For an hour. With my iPod.

Or sat in a cafe for an hour by myself reading a magazine.

You need time out Op.

I would make you be my friend.

Bloody iPad. Changes words all the bloody time.

Slowly,

Not everyone is suited to being a SAHM. I only stayed at home for the first 6 months of both my children's lives and I found it MUCH HARDER than what I do now (work full time and have 5 y.o and 18 month y.o)

I too had severe PND with my first and milder PND with my second (more like "how the hell do I deal with all this work? it never stops!")

Trust me, they do get easier as they get older. My 5 y.o is no problem to look after now, actually a helping hand, although I remember 3 as being a bad stage.

try not to feel guilty about not being a 'natural mother' - I don;t think I am either and have done the shouty thing loads of times.

Perhaps schedule half a day of 'me time' a week, using a nursery session or childminder or even family member for childcare. When you can look forward to having that time to yourself it makes it much easier to be =in the mummy role in the meantime x

Good luck x

i too think you sound amazing op. i wish i knew you so could help you out with the kids and a chat. so sorry you're going through this.

Slowly - have you tried the Mumsnet local pages? Maybe try posting on there when you have moved into your new area. You might well find a like minded MNer not too far away (hope you're moving near me!)

Those free nursery sessions changed my life literally! As others (and you I think) have said a couple of sessions in a creche/child minder for your DS coinciding with your DD's nursery sessions ... time enough to indulge in something creative and inspiring just for you! Absolutely NO housework, but something that your soul is aching for like a trip to a museum or gallery.

It obviosuly feels shit now, but this next move could be the one where you start to feel more like you.

I agree - 3 is difficult age. My DD is 3.6yrs and DD is 15months and things have definately improved since my baby turned 1.

I think everyone on this thread is thinking the same thing - that you are amazing and honest and wishing that you are moving near us!

PS please keep in touch with us and let us know how things go with the move.

SlowlyDI - Some of your post resonated strongly with me, the parts about never really fitting in, moving on to new things because things never were quite right, not thinking that people would want to be friends with you (I might be projecting that bit!)

IME, it stems from low self-esteem. Which you appear to have in abundance, courtesy of your toxic upbringing. You are doubting yourself constantly and have no confidence in what you are doing - and it's making you miserable.

You say you have tried counselling - I think you need to go back. Find the self-esteem within you, lay your own childhood to rest because the seeds that were sown then are throttling your ability to become the great person you really are.

Do you sometimes think that people wouldn't like you if they knew the real you? Do you ever feel like you're not that good at your job really and that your employers made a mistake hiring you, and you're just waiting for them to find out about this mistake, so you move on before they can?
I suffered from some of this - it fell under the heading of Impostor Syndrome. Does this sound like you?

Counselling with the right counsellor can help.

In the meantime, is there any chance you could employ a nanny/home help (do these even exist any more?)/au pair to help take the childcare burden off you a little, and allow you to get out and do something that you enjoy, go to the galleries, go to the museums, meet friends for lunch, that kind of thing. If your DH think he is earning enough money for you to be living the dream, then you can probably afford it, even a nanny-share would help.

And I sympathise with the 3yo thing - my DS is 3 and is mostly lovely but has occasional utterly bratty days - and I revert to Shouty Mum too (inbred patterns from my own parents). I even say the same things she used to say. It's a very hard pattern to break, I find, especially if you're coming from a low self-esteem stand point, because your confidence in your own ability to choose a different way and that be a better one is nil.

I know I've gone on a bit, but hope it helps somehow.

Just noticed something you said about not being programmed to be content. That is perhaps your current state of being, but not your permanent state. We can reprogramme ourselves. Many of us do. It's a long journey of ongoing work on the heart, but it can be done.

Can I suggest a book that will help you begin to understand yourself better? It's called Counselling For Toads, by Robert de Board. It's a story about Toad of Toad Hall - all about what happened after the Wind in the Willows. Written by a counsellor, it's a good introduction to what good counselling is about, and if you read it with an open mind the story should help you start to unpack yourself and begin some of your much-needed 'heart work'.

Another useful thing is on here. Human Givens is a holistic branch of therapy which an excellent counsellor friend of mine praises very highly. If you scroll down to the section titled: "What Are the Human Givens?" you'll find a detailed list of what they identify as the key areas of life which need to remain in balance for us to be content and mentally/ emotionally well. From your posts it's clear that a fair few of these needs are in short supply for you at the moment.

(Hi, Thumbwitch!)

(Speeeeeeedy! how are you doing my lovely? how is that baby of yours, not so baby any more of course!)

I agree with speedy. I would have mentioned the thing that helped me the most but last time I brought it up on an MN thread someone shot me down in flames (quite hurtful really) so I don't any more. But it was extremely helpful to me and helped me to re-programme my own settings, losing the feelings that I didn't belong, could never really be happy and sooner or later people would realise that I was worthless/hopeless and steadily all leave me.

It's not gone entirely - I still get hurt by people "leaving" me - FB is a bitch for that, a supposed friend de-friended me recently and it was all I could do not to message her to ask why. I didn't though. But it still rankles.

Wow, have logged on to find all these further lovely responses and I've had a good cry. Thank you everyone, I wish I knew you all in RL, I'd give you all a huge hug and lots of Rolos, you are so kind to take the time. I feel so self indulgent having started this, but I wanted to reply to you all. Have deposited DCs with DH and locked myself away so I can reply in peace....there you go, I'm following your advice and getting some me time!

Where to begin? Re my DCs: I was never broody, DH was more into the idea of having children.

However, and this shames me to the core, I think I had children as a competitive exercise, if that makes sense. Partly competing with my own body, after my first unexpected pregnancy resulted in a very painful and lonely miscarriage in the middle of nowhere thousands of miles from home. I wanted to prove I could carry a baby. Competing against my mother and father, I wanted to prove I could do everything differently from them. Competing against other women, I'm ashamed to say. I was always one of those, "What the fuck is so hard about having a child? Stop moaning!" types. Also, within the context of my marriage, wanting to prove I could have the perfect package, sailing out of my career into my new role of Annabel Karmel cum Martha Steward with a killer wardrobe and witty conversation for DH when he got home. I never wanted to be a lady who lunches, I wanted to be a mum and keep a house as a vocation. I wanted to do it and be proud and happy doing it. I was competing against all those women who were not going to give up their jobs. I was going to show them up. Fucking hell, that's awful, isn't it? But I think just symptomatic of my general behaviour. Turning myself into Super-SAHM was just another way of running away and reinventing myself again. Unfortunately, this time I've taken with me 3 other people this time, who don't deserve this.

Gawd, I've just realised I essentially decided I wanted to be a Stepford Wife! One of the things I've been exploring in counselling is my taking everything to extremes. I am a perfectionist and then some. I never felt good enough as a child. Nothing I ever did made my parents happy. Nothing I've ever done in my life feels like a success, I always feel as if I could/should have done things differently or better. I don't think I've ever done anything that had my heart and soul at it's core, just what my head told me was the right thing to do. I'm a people pleaser, and I have done or not done things to please other people. When "me" has prevailed and I've got fed up of being (in my perception) used, I've run away and reinvented again. I've never had the strength/guts to change the situation I've been in, I've just run from it.

Anyway, the fact that I don't get the chance to shower every day, am usually covered in vomit and bits of mashed food and live in leggings, shout like a banshee and have nothing to say at the end of the day to DH means I am very un-Stepford. I have lost the baby weight though, I don't get time to eat and I'm constantly anxious, it's a great weight loss plan

Also, the falling in love with your baby thing. Never happened to me. I felt no love for DD until she was well over 1 y o. I am very fond indeed of DS, but I'm not sure it's love. I don't really think I understand or experience simple, no strings love. I fall in and out of love with DH constantly, I'm always looking for proof he does and evidence he does not. The nearest I get to overwhelming feelings of love for DD is when I see her in the park, desperately trying to make friends with everyone. Although, this just makes me cry and feel hugely anxious and sorry for her, and fearful she will end up like me. So I'm probably just projecting my own feelings rather than loving her.

My hour is nearly up. I could go on and on, and I really want to reply to you all individually, but I should get on. Ultimately, I am royally fucked up in the head, and this is why I should never have had children (or got married for that matter, to my DH who is a wonderful fella). Where I want to be is alone, just alone with nobody else to think about, and try to figure out who the hell I am.

I'll come back and post a bit more when I get the chance. Just thank you, thank you, thank you so much all you lovely women who have posted here, even if you think I'm a self indulgent twat, at least you are listening, and that means a great deal. Thank you for all the advice and links, I will read this all through carefully.

God, sorry, that last post was just a monologue of my crazy thoughts, not really a response to anyone, sorry about that, this is why I should not start going on about this stuff!

Slowly, you can reinvent yourself again - as a happier person - and it doesn't have to involve running away.

Therapy - yes - or other similar transformational experiences. I did a personal development weekend which changed my life (PM me for the details if interested). I can recommend it as a way to 'jump start' the therapy process, which can be quite slow and dependent on finding the right therapist.

I used to have terribly low self-esteem and now I can't even remember what that felt like.

I'd also second those who say get back to work (why struggle with something that doesn't make you happy - it would be good for you and your whole family for you to recover some independence and social life with adults) but in a new, lower-key field, and also try to make a few new friends (easier said than done of course but there are lots of really helpful books out there with simple techniques - have a look at some books on positive psychology/how to be happy - they have some good tips on how happy, resilient people go about everyday living). Again, I can recommend some if you are interested.

Don't apologise - it's important to talk about it! I find it interesting that you chose the SAHM route out of a competitive impulse - I expect you can see that this isn't really compatible with contentment. For that you need to learn to love yourself.

Slowly, so much of your last post resonates with me, I can't believe it.

I wanted to be the perfect SAHM, too. I even got chickens and a veg patch, fgs.

I love my kids, but couldn't understand why I was depressed and inert. My relationships with my dh and kids suffered, and in the end, after a fairly spectacular display of desperate behaviour, I realised I was never going to be Felicity Kendal/Anthea Turner.

I need people around me, I need stuff to think about that isn't my miserable childhood/fucked-in-the-headness - and to this end, I have just landed a job, starting soon. I can't wait.

TA is helping, too.

Just wanted to show a bit of solidarity. Sending good vibes.

Get some structured planned weekly space and you will see things are different. Dont worry 3 year olds are very demanding and insensitive to peoples feelings... It will change ......

DD now almost 5 is fun to be around.. We love saturday mornings chilling together and have a fun day planned together the two of us. When she was 3 I too felt like running away ...

I don't know if it will help you at all but there was a similar thread not so long ago. Link here.

Just to add a practical tip re: the shouting until you get the longer term plans in place.

I have a mother's help come in three times a week, 4-7pm.

She is a local student and just the mere presence of her here makes me a much, much, much better mother. When she is not here it can get so stressful and tiring and I can really shout like I never would have wanted pre-kids. When she is here not only is she a source of conversation and an extra pair of hands, but she is an external pair of eyes and puts ME on my best behaviour because I don't want an outsider to see me at my worst.

It helps my relationship with the children no end.

Three is a very challenging age, even if they are easy-going to start with. I have a compliant 6yo and a defiant 4yo and the 4yo has been mustard since day one, no joke! She is a completely different child to my older DD and her behaviour exhausted me and stressed me out to no end from about age one up. She was having tantrums from about nine months. If I'd have had her first I don't know if I would have braved another!!

The good news is that life is getting easier and I have found different ways of managing her behaviour and as she matures she is becoming a more pleasant person to be around too.

Not all children are easy to be with, so you need to find 'ways in' if you feel like you are loving being around your DS more than your DD. Even very small amounts of one-to-one with physical contact make a huge difference eg 10 mins of stitting together reading a story with your arm around her.

Have you got a Sure Start centre near you?

When is your DD eligible for funded nursery?

SDI how much support are you getting in RL?

You said that if it weren't for the DC's, you would leave your DH but you also say that he's a wonderful man and you fall in and out of love with him. Does he know how hard you are finding everything? Are you protecting him from the knowledge of just how unhappy you are? Would ensuring that he understands just how miserable you are, so that he can support you and work with you to change things, be helpful? I'm pretty sure that most men would be appalled to know that their wives say they will only stay with them because of the DC's, that's not what people want from relationships, it sounds as if you haven't given him the chance to take a much more supportive role in your life, sorry if I'm assuming too much here.

Reading the thread AmandaCooper linked to, made me realise that we need to discuss this issue on the feminist boards, because one of the thngs about parenthood is that women's lives change out of all recognition while men's lives while they change, don't change anything like as much, so no wonder so many women feel bloody depressed, there is a conspiracy to cover up how life changing becoming a mother is and how not so life changing becoming a father is. But it occurs to me that if your DH understood how much you grieve for the loss of your own life, he might be better able to support you and you would feel a bit better because at least if you know you have someone in your corner who understands, sympathises, wants to help and will support you to change it, you would feel a million times better.

Had to respond. Can associate with ALOT of what OP is saying. Not the depression, suicide, dh, bits, bit ALOT of the rest.
Is this thread helping OP ? Becasue MN is fab for these very things. Have you actually actioned any of the practical advice steps already ? Becasue one-step-at-a-time.
And like others, I think you need a break from the children first. put them into nursery/gym creche/ SOMETHING to give you some space. to think.
It may well turn out that you then find some sort of job, that fits your high inteliigence, or you come up with some self employed consultancy option, or a new business - bet you are so intelligent/perfectionist, you could turn you hand ot almost anything.
Then these minor steps will enable you to look at the relationship with your children. your lvoe for them. and your parenting.
And it will enbale you to really think about what you do want and how to get it. step by step. Maybe you really want to leave your dh, but are frightened. Maybe in time you would have your children weekly board and go off and do something else.
Anything is possible, if you put your mind to it.
HTH