My OH just told me he thinks that his career is more important than family, and I'm gutted,

[Imps7]

I've been with OH for 11 years (we're both early 30s). Over the last 6 or 7 years he's become driven by money and doing well in his career. As it is I see him very very little during the week (he works 12 hours days, getting back at 9pm on a good day). At weekends and on holidays he's never without his laptop and Blackberry (e.g. I had to wonder around San Francisco by myself for 4 hours when we were there last March because he had to do a conference call back at the hotel).

At the New Year we decided to start TTC. I thought that this meant that his shift was finally moving from work towards having a family life. However, he has just told me that wants to accept an offer on a new job which pays more and is for a better company - but this job involves a daily 3.5 hour commute on top of his normal working hours.

I'm really upset. I can't imagine having a family where the dad is never around or where his focus is always on his job and not his wife/children. I always imagined my family to be a close and happy unit where everyone spends time together in the evening eating dinner and playing games/watching tv as a family, just as me and my mum, dad and sister did when I was growing up. I didn't sign up for being the only parent around.

I'm beyond gutted to realise that I'll never have the family life I've always dreamed of and am looking for some words of comfort and wisdom from anyone who may have been there, done that.

I always imagined my family to be a close and happy unit where everyone spends time together in the evening eating dinner and playing games/watching tv as a family, just as me and my mum, dad and sister did when I was growing up. I didn't sign up for being the only parent around

thats a big ask though, certainly in the current economic climate. most people are grabbing overtime whenever they can, simply to make ends meet..

lots of families dont see much of each other during the week, due to shift patterns... but they have weekends and holidays.. thats life I'm afraid.

I think you both need to really talk and look at it long term.

It would be a shame to throw away what is a good and long relationship without a bit of compromise perhaps on both sides.

I don't think the length of time you've been together is a good reason to stay together in and of itself.

It may be that you were perfect partners in your 20s but aren't compatible as a married couple with children.

Figuring that out is more important than "compromising" on things that are central to how you each conceive of a fulfilling life.

Of course it would be sad if you decide that you've reached the end if your time together, but it would be better than making each other miserable by refusing to accept your irrecocilable differences.

Also, you may find that if you talk about this in a way that doesn't involve attempts to win the argument about what kind of life you should both have, but recognises that separate lives are still a live possibility, that both of your perspectives change and other options seem possible and desirable.

You're right Spidookly - I'm going to sit down with him, maybe over a curry, and set out my idea of a family life (both parents contributing financially and sharing the childcare responsibilities) as compared to his idea of a family life (the husband only earning and income and the wife picking up near to 100% of the childcare responsibilities) and ask him a) if he thinks that there's a middle ground anywhere and b) if so, what that is and what we can both do to get there.

Luckily we're not the shouty/arguey/point-scoring type of couple so I'm hoping we'll be able to work out a plan.

If not then I'll have to think through my options on my own. Gulp.

Thanks lovely ladies - you've calmed me down no end...for now ...

Othehuge I think has hit it on the nail. If you are career driven your early 30s are critical for making some big jumps up the ladder - if it doesn't happen for him in the next few years it's unlikely to ever happen.

My DH has always been a very hands on dad but got laid off a couple of months ago and now works evenings and weekends to bring in some money. I work fulltime and so we rarely see each other. We've found that DD finds it upsetting that her dad isn't often around and we certainly bicker now which wasn't something we did before. It's far from ideal and it gives you renewed respect for single parents.

I think you need to work out what you really want for the future - is having children with him (as he is now, not how you would want him to be) the most important thing or just having children? Either way you don't have time on your side sadly so you need to resolve this.

Hope that it all works out for you.

"But I do miss seeing him and not being able to make any firm plans in the evenings - I can't tell you the number of mid-week dinners we've had with friends where he's either not been able to make it or has turned up during main course. This I find very upsetting and a bit lonely from time to time."

I think that it might be an idea to stop enabling him so much. Every now and then, go out without warning and let him come home to an unexpectedly cold, empty, food-less, lonely house. He might then appreciate what he has.

OP - you need to talk to him.

Calmly and as an adult. Tell him what you would like to happen and why. Let him explain his feelings and answers.

Listen to him, really listen. Don't shut down because you might not hear something you like.

Plan out the next six months, year, 18 months, etc.

Agrre to sit down every 6 months or so and talk again. You may find that if he doesn't 'make it' then he changes his mind, he may not.

Just take into account his feelings too.

If after really talking and listen to him you feel he has nothing left to offer, then you have to be adult enough to tell him that.

purits raises a good point.

Are you really not making any firm plans on weekday evenings because of his work schedule?

Or do you just mean no firm plans together?

One of the things that strikes me as problematic, OP, is that he simultaneously believes that "your salary defines your success as a human being" AND that you should give up work despite you not wanting to.

So basically he believes that only high-earning people in high-status careers are worthwhile, and that it's alright for you to give up work against your wishes.

So he doesn't think you're worthwhile, then? Or if I'm being generous, he might do now, but he won't if you stay home. By his own terms, that makes you a non-person.

hmmmm DH works 12 hour days (sometimes more) and travels a lot for work. However, he has been this way since we met, so I knew what I was signing up for.

I can't see how this is going to work in the long term. You are pulling in different directions.

DH often doesn't see the boys much through the week, but the key to our success is I think that when he is here he is all here. He does do breakfast in the mornings because I am like a bear with a sore head before shower and coffee, but he is still out the door by 7:30amish and rarely home before 8pm (which is just on DS1's bedtime and an hour after DS2's). The boy's have dinner together and I sit at the table and chat, then I eat with DH when he gets in.

You are just going to have to decide whether you want him and the long hours or whether you would be better off moving on. I wouldn't bank on him changing once the babies are here, that can only end in misery.

TBH the money is some consolation, DH makes a lot and that smoothes out a lot of life's ups and downs, however, I am not that fussed about working. I like to make money, but don't mind phaffing about at home, I read and write a lot so am quite happy. I am also very appreciated so that helps.

I was about to post exactly the same thing as Morloth.

I don't consider DH a workaholic but he leaves the house by 7.30 and returns at 7 if I'm lucky and he gets the "early" train. Our 2 children are 3 and 8months so are normally both in bed when he gets in. He often has to work in the evening as the US office are around, and weekends as that's when IT hardware is upgraded.

He'd love to have less hours but it's part of the job, and he's well compensated for it. He does breakfast for the boys before he goes and does DS1 bedtime stories if he's home in time.

The money means we can afford a cleaner, take a couple of holidays a year (nothing fancy but I insist that work is forgotten while we are away).

Your DH is not a bad guy for loving his work - if you can afford a nanny or a nursery with the opening hours that suit then there's no reason you have to give up work.

Personally I think that 12 hour days are quite normal unless you do a job locally. The only people that I know who eat weekday meals as a family don't work at all.

My dh is out of the house 6:30-8 and not a workaholic. He sometimes has to be reminded to not check his emails!! The children may see him for 10 minutes or so at the start and ends of the day and for the whole weekend. He doesn't do weekend hobbies or follow football which is a relief.

My dh spends 3-4 hours a day commuting because we don't want to uproot the kids while they are at school and he only plans to work at current employers for another year or two.

Imps7,

Am sorry but I think this has run its course because you fundamentally now want different things.

If you have been together all this time why haven't you talked properly about all this and why hasn't he proposed marriage before ttc?. I don't think he wants to marry you actually and you are now ttc by him, you put yourself in a very vulnerable position. He's not there for you now, what makes you think he'd be there for his children. He won't be, men like this keep working. I don't think you and he are now on the same page, you both now want different things and your paths are not converging here. They may never do so again and you need to bear that in mind now painful though that is. He now needs to be completely honest with you.

If a man tells you this really listen to what he is saying!!!. And put TTC on hold now. If you remain unmarried and did split after having children by him your personal legal rights basically amount to bugger all.

Have to say, you saying you'd 'insist on getting married' if you had children worries me - you've no actual way of making it happen. If you want to stay in the relationship and have children together, you need to put in place some financial/legal protection now.

But I'd go with what most people are saying: don't go on with this thinking he will change if you have children, the chances are he won't.

Well, I tried to suggest that, Attila, because I've been there myself, only we were married and ended up divorced, but it's not want the OP wants to hear so it was ignored. He didn't want what I wanted, neither one of us was wrong, and there's no way to compromise someone into being the parent or person you want them to be when they're not.

You can't insist someone marry you, either, but, having been married and married now, I will tell you this: when a man wants to marry you, they let you know! I wouldn't want to be married to someone whom I had to bamboozle into it because I think I'm worth more than that.

Don't you?

Tortoise has hit on the crux of it I think. He is happy for you to give up all status (in his eyes), while he forges ahead becoming more and more 'important' (again in his own eyes).

Think hard about what your life will be like. If he won't even take proper holiday time then you are signing up to years of slog and misery where you having a holiday, or any kind of break at all from your job of raising the children is going to be a pipedream.
At least he has been honest with you and told you where you stand, if you have babies with him now then in all honesty you can't reproach him for anything in the future because he has told you how life is going to be.

My DH works long hours, he is gone by 7.30 most mornings and usually home around 6.30. He does bath and bed with DS every evening, and weekends and holidays his phone gets switched off and work is forgotten.

The marriage thing also worries me. You would insist on being married if you had children, but you are TTCing and you aren't married. If you get pregnant and aren't married then you are stuck. Would your OH share childcare costs, or would his view be that you should just give up work so that isn't necessary? You could end up giving up your career to look after your kids, unmarried, which puts you in a very vulnerable position.
You have fallen (IMHO) into the classic trap of couples who are together through their 20's and don't either get married or start a family during that time. You have both made assumptions, it sounds like there is a whole herd of elephants in the room in terms of things which haven't been discussed properly.

Don't think that he'll change, because he won't. Men don't, especially not alpha types like your DP. His job will always come first, you and any children will always come second.

Agree that a frank discussion needs to take place. If he doesn't want children AT ALL, he owes you honesty.

Perhaps you should discuss what his family life was like? It may be that he thinks the father is the bread winner and not in the home. I know that some men consider the biggest thing they can do for their family is to provide as much as they can (of course required to an extent, but other things are of greater importance).

When we were small, my dad used to work quite long hours - at first because we were skint. Then his business took off and he used to work long hours because the work was there and he could make good money. Probably home between 6 and 7 in the week and often worked weekends. We had nice holidays, never wanted for anything. He was always engaged with the family when he was there (lack of Blackberry and laptops in the 80's and 90's helped I suppose) and I never felt it was a negative thing - to him, he worked as he did because he loved us, knew we were with our mum and therefore cared for. There were spells when he worked away, and I know he didn't like it. Infact, he arranged to do three long days in order to get his hours finished and come home early, and he always brought us something home (not that material things matter, but the time spent thinking about what his girls would like and I among my toys, to this day, I remember which ones he picked out) and remember looking forward to him coming home and feeling utterly adored and do remember him being around. So I think in some families, it can work, but not always. As an aside, when he became a single parent (we were teenagers by this point), he cut his hours back significantly (no more weekends, and always home for 6) and while this meant less money, he knew by this point that his contribution in presence had to increase. (Sorry for the essay, just trying to offer another perspective).

I also think at the moment, these babies are theoretical - is it possible that to him, he's a bit resistant to prioritise people that don't yet exist? I don't want to promote the notion that 'he will change' because often men don't, but it is difficult to know what will happen in practice.

But it is vital you talk because at present, it sounds like you have different perspectives on family life.

The marriage thing is really not an issue for either of us - we don't want to get married, but unless the law changes for cohabitees we will need to, if we have children, and we both accept that with that. I have no romantic notions of marriage whatsoever, so when I say that I will insist on getting married, I mean that I will make it happen, rather than his approach of "yes we will get around to it one day". In all likelihood we will add it into a trip to Vegas or go up to Gretna Green or wherever it's called. I have never longed for a big wedding day and nor has OH - it's just the legal stuff that makes it an issue. I would quite happily remain unmarried if legal rights for cohabitees were equal to those of a married couple.

I have been taking into your account all of your valued advice overnight and I have come up with the following thoughts:

1. My idea of family life is probably be a bit too idealistic and romantic. I need to focus on reality a bit more.

1. I don't think either of us can really know what it will be like to have a family until we do actually have a family. You never know, I may love being a SAHM so much that I don't want to return to work and will actually have that option if OH earns enough for the both of us. On the other hand, OH may love having a family so much that he can't stomach the idea of being at home so little and regret the commute.

In the absence of having a crystal ball or the benefit of hindsight, it would perhaps be a good solution for OH to stay in his current job for another year or so by which time (hopefully) we will have started a family. I will have to discuss this with him at the weekend.

Expat sorry if you feel as though I ignored your advice - I haven't - there have just been so many views expressed that I haven't responded to all of them. Your idea of couples counselling is a good one, and I will look into it further if OH and I can't agree on a plan.

I think you two need to have a serious talk, Imps.

I agree Expat and we will at the weekend when he's back. Not something I want to do over the phone.

Good luck Imps. Hope you get a happy outcome.

Thanks Karen!

Imps7: I am your future.

Dh has always been wedded to his job. He doesn't even like it, but feels driven to work hard to support his family and for self-esteem.

I am a SAHM - and believe me, I stay at home all the time. Dh commutes two hours each way and is rarely home before 8pm.

On the other hand, dh absolutely adores the dcs. He and ds have always been best mates. He never touches a golf club (or those other male pursuits that involve weekends away and hours spent with other men) so the weekends are full-on family time only.

How could I have played it differently?

Well, I would have moved nearer dh's job (although he'd probably have spent longer at work!) and made a greater effort to maintain my own career.

I think spidookly is right. Perhaps you simply aren't compatible. Please don't do what I did ... (different reasons but similar outcome) and stay with a man who will hold you back from realising your own ambitions and dreams, just because you want to be with him/love him etc.

I spent my twenties and thirties with completely the wrong man, didn't have children (would have been a terrible experience to have done) and am now trying for children at 42.

I can tell you from experience, it does not feel good.

Men can get very wrapped up in the career/work thing.
He needs to consider what you really want too, and not just where life is heading for him. Without kids at the moment, all he can think about is money, money , money. Of course he does think about you but if he loves you he should take seriously what it is that is important to you. Like most females married you want a family. Men , i dont think are always the same as women ....they dont get broody as we females do.
You need to sit down with him and have a serious talk about all this and let him know exactly how you feel....infact what you said on you initial post would be good to say to him.

I am also your future,but wouldn't be quite so negative.

My dh works long hours and does a 1.5 hours commute.On an average day he leaves the house at 7.15am and arrives home about 9pm,these hours are not as long as he has done in the past .I work part time in an interesting role and work locally,we have three boys aged 17,14 and 9,the middle one also has SEN.

We met at university and started on similar career paths but decided that having two careers going full pelt was not for us,yes I do feel resentful sometimes that my career has effectively stalled ,yes i get frustrated at being at home sometimes .OTOH our boys are having a good education,we live in a beautiful place ,and in a supportive community ,we have a dog and hens and the children are the focus of our lives ,most importantly we are able to give ds2 in particular whatever support he needs (don't ever think that will never happen to me;because it might).

We are no more than comfortable but on the whole it does work for us.Work does come first in a practical sense for dh and in the sense that he is a bit if a perfectionist but also because quite frankly it is what feeds us ,houses us and clothes us ,it might offend my feminist principles but if you look at the bank statement it is true

If you don't mind me saying so your image of family life is quite idealistic and rather outdated,children cost money,they are not babies for long,and even then if you decide to work for most people in the early years your income will be swallowed up by childcare costs .Thinking about all the people I know I would struggle to think of anyone male or female with a serious career who works the sort of hours that you describe and in the long run we are all going to have to fund our old age ,childrens university fees etc .