DH's Betrayal

[saffydude]

I won't go into huge amounts of detail as I don't want to bore you all, but would appreciate a little bit of advice on how we/I can move forward.

I found out almost 3 months ago that my husband of almost 10 years has been (in a sequence it seems) looking at porn > chatting to women > masturbating to 3 of these women whilst working away from home. One of these women he had quite a 'friendly' relationship with - he told her (and everyone else) he was single yet he knew she had 2 children and an ex husband, so she was quite surprised when I logged into his secret email account I had found that day and we started chatting. Initially she told me he had only done this once for her which was not reciprocated, (and he said the same without me telling him what she'd said) but in a subsequent conversation a few days later she told me that they had talked about meeting up and starting a relationship. She then changed her story to they masturbated to each other more than once because "it was the only way they could have sex".

Whilst chatting to her, another woman popped up on chat to say Hi - turns out while working down south during the week (this was the case for a year) he 'went out for a walk' with this woman and her dog - on the day of meeting her on chat - and they ended up kissing.

He says he did not feel attracted to her in the slightest, went into it completely innocently and wasn't expecting anything to happen, and after a few minutes realised that what he was doing was so very wrong, literally made his excuses and ran. He said that was his wake up call and the point he realised that he has everything he has ever wanted in me and our 2 DCs.He says it was the point that 'all of this' stopped. He also said a great weight has been lifted now it is all out in the open.

Talking about it recently, I discovered the porn usage started when our DS (now 4 and a half) was about 8 months old. I caught him 'at it' late one night infront of the computer and he couldn't explain what he was doing, only that he was drunk and didn't realise he was having a fumble. I don't really have an issue with the porn and was actually quite disappointed that he didn't want to include me in something that may enhance our love life.

TBH I realised there were holes in our relationship but like I've seen on other posts on here, I was putting our DCs first - what mother wouldn't? He said recently he thought that "I had my little project" (with the kids) and didn't really need him around. How WRONG. All I've ever wanted is his love and support in raising our kids together - for so many years I have felt like a single Mum.

We did however have quite a good sex life even though it was sporradic. We'd go a couple of months without touching one another and then not be able to keep our hands off one another. I realise now that I would go through periods of not wanting him near me because he became so detached as a husband and a father when my daughter was younger (about 2 years ago - when the chatting/camming was at its height). Since the night I caught him 'having a fumble' I subconciously stopped trusting him and I think began to switch myself off from him.

Anyway - although I have gotten to the point more than once where I have felt I would get past all of this quicker if my children and I left him, I want my marriage to work and he says the same. When I first found out I loaded the car up with as much stuff as I could fit in and the kids and I set off down south to my family. But he passed me coming home from work early to try and sort it out and after avoiding his calls for 20 minutes or so he persuaded me to come home and talk.

I have gone through what WWIFN has described on another post as 'hysterical bonding' - and trying to perform as the wife I think he wants - even though it really hasn't been me. When I first found out we went through a period of kissing and cuddling all the time and being quite intimate.

Now however, I seem to have hit a brick wall. For the past few weeks I haven't wanted him to touch me - I'm not repulsed by him but I feel like I need to keep my defences up for 'when he does it again' and gives me the excuse to leave. Actually deep down all I want is him to hold me and tell me we'll make it through. I feel so confused, sad and miserable that this is where we have got to with what was once a great relatipnship.

He swears he is never going to do anything like this again but I think right now both of us are struggling to know how to move on. Discussions (he seems to think I should have moved on further than I have) degenerate into rows or digs and everything comes back to how much he has hurt me.

The past 24 hours have been 'okay' with us even kissing last night and falling asleep in each others arms but I wonder how long until the next fight.

I feel like a bit of a phony because there are women on here posting who have survived a 'proper affair' but I can't help feeling so very betrayed and cheated. I believe him when he says he has never slept with anyone else in our 11 year relationship which tbh I think is the only reason why me and my 2 DCs are still here. God knows how I would feel if I was trying to get through 'that' as well, and I take my hat off to those who have done it.

Any constructive thoughts about how we/I can get past this would be appreciated. Thanks so much for your time and oh it looks like I did go into detail and have probably bored you! (Sorry...) xxx

I dont have much good advice Im afraid.I have had infidelity issues in my own relationship which have never been resolved(due to dh refusal to admit to or tell the full truth about his actions). If you really want to save your marriage then think counselling is the way to go(not something my dh would agree to).
Hope it works out for you.

Thanks. I've suggested both solo (I think he has issues with stress and depression) and couples counselling, neither of which he feels is 'for us' as he thinks we will get through it. I wonder if because I'm still here then I won't ever decide enough is enough and pack up.

I forgot to mention that in my previous (and very loooong) post - when I have asked him details about things that I feel I am entitled to know (ie how he got to the actual 'kissing' stage with someone he didn't even feel attracted to) he says he has told me "everything he knows" and "has forgotten/blocked out" certain events, ie. he said he can't even remember driving to meet this woman. I wonder if regression counselling for him is the way to go to jog his memory and help me move on, or should I just accept that he wasn't in a sane frame of mind and try to move on regardless? All I can think is that he can't have loved me/given me any thought when he actually drove to meet this woman.

Thanks for taking time to post. x

I meant "I wonder if he thinks that because I'm still here then I won't ever decide enough is enough"...

"regression counselling" ?

I've heard it all now...

love, this man won't tell you the details because he is holding out on you

he's blocked it out ?

how very convenient

you want constructive comments on how to get past this ?

he has to start being honest with you, and stop treating you like a fool

couples counselling ?

Exactly why I'm still having feelings of running for the hills, and exactly why I can't yet move on. Which is why I need a bit of advice.

I wonder if I'm blowing it all out of proportion as he's not actually had sex with anyone else and the closest he's come to physical contact is a kiss. I do feel that the webcamming thing is cheating as you are involved with one other person (unlike watching porn which is anon) don't get me wrong, but it can't be as bad as him actually sleeping with someone else.

He claims he was on his way home that afternoon he passed me going the other way, to 'tell me everything' and I kick myself to this day for telling him about my conversation with one of his webcam-women and the one he kissed before he got home, as I would love to know if he had any intention of telling me just how bad things were.

pink4ever, what state is your relationship in now; are you still together? How are things day to day if you are?

I gave him an ultimatum at the weekend that I couldn't move on if he couldn't tell me what I needed to know - but then backed down because the way it was going we were about to kiss goodbye to 11 years together and ultimately that's not what I want.

I can't offer you much advice at the moment as much of this is all too familiar.

The only thing I can say right now is that I am still in my marriage because the consequences of splitting up are worse than the consequences of staying.

Hugs to you. :(

love, in my world, webcamming is cheating

there is another current thread going where that question is asked and the resounding majority says "yes, it is cheating because it is interacting with a real live person to get to orgasm"

I can't believe you "had conversations with his webcam women"

have you no self respect left ?...why are you questioning that what he did was wrong ?

in a mutually-respectful relationship, unless both parties are agreed this kind of activity is ok, it is not

why do women accept this crap ? I will never understand it

are these men The Messiah ? The only man in the world ? Are they fuck.

to think he needs "regression counselling" to make him tell you the truth ...gawd, he's really done a number on you

he is a fucking liar love, and the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will find the strength to tell him to fuck off

you are not over reacting

don't let him try to tell you your own feelings, have the courage of your own convictions x

I cant believe you even have to ask if you are overreacting

Well he's not telling you the truth is he?

I suspect that's why you can't move on. I also couldn't help noticing your tolerant attitude to porn in your OP and your observation that if he had asked you to join in, it might have enhanced the relationship. One of the biggest myths is that porn enhances a relationship. However, therapists are reporting more cases like yours, where it has in fact instigated the destruction of an intimate relationship. What starts off with internet porn, evolves into live interactions with other women and often infidelity, either with the women contacted or some other willing candidate in RL.

He's resistant to counselling I suspect because a good therapist would highlight his lies and challenge him about his selective amnesia.

You say he detached from the marriage a long time ago, so you haven't been getting your needs met for years. Hysterical bonding only works if there are no agendas attached to the sex and it never works if the agenda is to compete with an affair partner or OW. Hence I'm not surprised that has stopped now, as your shock wore off and your dignity kicked in.

You cannot get past this or forgive until you know the whole, unedifying truth. Even I can spot a lie he's told you and I don't know him. He absolutely didn't meet that woman innocently, that's the most ludicrous tale I've ever heard. He knew full well what was going to happen and what he wanted to happen, before he got there. Had this woman met his physical requirements, it would have happened too. That is, if this story has any basis of truth in the first place.

Health matters first. Have you had an STI test since all this? I hope you're not trusting him to have cared for your sexual health.

this thread may help you

this woman he met, ostensibly for sex, "didn't appeal" to him, so he ran for the hills

is that meant to make you feel better ?

a man that objectifies women, on personal appearance alone

sometimes, the excuses that these kind of people use to wriggle out of a situation, actually paint them in a much worse light

he is cruel, and manipulative...to you, and to other women

what a fucking booby prize he really is, he makes my skin crawl

I think the problems here are because he is lying and because you are trying to pretend to yourself that you can forgive him, so that you don't have to leave him.

It's not up to him to dismiss counselling - he should be jumping through hoops to keep you. He doesn't want to do it because he would have to confront his behaviour and his lies would be picked apart.

He appears to have been actively looking for women to meet for sex - completely agree with WWIFN that story is ludicrous! Of course he met her for sex. They may have even had sex - there may also be other women if there are two popping up on your computer.

I also can't believe you are trying to give this man the benefit of the doubt - when women he has been chatting to are popping up on the computer.

Please look deep inside yourself at how you really feel - not how you wish you felt so that you could justify putting up with this. It's okay to ask him to move out, it's okay to make him have counselling and it's okay to be really upset about this.

and - bollocks he can't remember it! Seriously - if you want this to work you need to make it very clear that he has to tell the truth. Im sure him moving out would help with all of this.

And start with having therapy of your own without waiting for him to join in.

and...I am fuming on your behalf at 'he thinks I should have moved on'...er, for starters how can you move on when he is lying and not being open about what he did and why? He just wants this shoved under the carpet so he can carry on doing it.

It was only three months ago - and he isn't even really sorry or he would be being honest and trying to seriously repair the relationship.

grrr.how dare he tell you to move on from it !

Everything you have all said is about 99% of the thoughts already going on in my head, which is why I posted in the first place.

I will just say at the moment I have an ounce of self respect and dignity left as I am a strong (but currently VERY confused) person which is why I need some kind of resolution to this, I can't just bury my head in the sand and move on like it never happened. I know I'm too good to put up with that sort of shite.

I told him at the weekend that I could NOT move on until he started to remember - and tell me - what he was actually thinking when all this was going on, what his motives were, and whether he actually considered me through all of this.

These are the questions that he says he can't (or won't) answer. He tells me he has blocked it all out and has "told me what he knows". We had a furious row about it with me saying "but you were there FFS, so you do know what happened". I asked him to get counselling to try and help him remember so we can get through this together but he somehow doesn't think this will help. I'm beginning to think you're right guys that it is because the whole truth and nothing but the truth will come out. The argument resulted in me saying I couldn't get past it if he couldn't tell me, him STILL not being able to tell me so me walking away and concluding that I (yes, I!) need to try and get past it for our sake as a couple, or we'd have to split up.

I think we need to have that conversation again. I think the ultimatum needs to be if he wants there to be an US he HAS to go to counselling or couples counselling.

:( :( :(

He's doing a pretty good job of controlling you with this amnesia though, isn't he? In reality, it's an active choice he's making.

If someone really doesn't want to tell the truth and needs to be dragged to therapy to do so, then however skilled the therapist, s/he cannot make someone stop lying and tell the truth, so don't put so much store by a therapeutic intervention. They are not hypnotists or allowed to prescribe truth drugs.

He knows what he did and why. He hasn't blocked it out at all - that's just yet another lie. People suffering from PTSD sometimes block horrific memories as a survival mechanism, but he is no more suffering from PTSD than I'm a milkman.

He is lying and trying to control you by lying and it's as simple as that.

So if this has been going on for almost four years, he is clearly in deep, and who knows how many women he has met, to inspect

This man is not a family man, he is addicted to porn and live meet ups/chats. He is not interested in coming clean or counselling. Where does that leave you? Put up and shut up?

Let him fight for the marriage, he fucked it up, you don't need to work at this, you should ask him to leave while you consider your options, imo. His attitude is way too cavalier.

I've just called him at work to say I cannot go on like this. Told him that he knows he is lying and treating me like a prize idiot and either he tells me the truth or me and the kids are gone. Gave him the opportunity to tell me there and then what he was thinking when he went to meet this other woman, and he went quiet and couldn't say anything, apart from "what's happened for you to be like this, I thought we were okay now?". WTF???

I told him if he wants to keep me he needs to be jumping through hoops to do so.

His departing words before HE HUNG UP ON ME?

"Well I'd best get thinking then about what I'm going to tell you".

I've texted and tried calling him back but he keeps cancelling my call. Maybe he's leapt in his car to come home and save our relationship, but I doubt it somehow. Speaks volumes.

I don't have the money to put fuel in the car to drive 200 miles to my folks to leave him today before he gets in from work. He pays all the bills so even if I kicked him out give it a couple of weeks he'd leave me high and dry, I'm sure.

I'm guess I'm scared because the way he is acting right now doesn't tell me that he WANTS to fight for the marriage he fucked up.

I'm such a mess.

He hung up on you? That speaks volumes, as does his comment 'he's best get thinking'. The truth doesn't need thought about, you just open your mouth and tell it like it happened.

I'm concerned you seem to know he would leave you high and dry financially. This is how he has made you feel, throughout the marriage? That's no way to treat the mother of your children, it's no way to treat anyone. I like the sound of him less and less.

You shouldn't be the one who has to run off to your mothers, your kids need stability, if you want some space and he won't leave, tell him to sleep on the sofa, stay at a friends, one of his webcams pals he spends so much time chatting to? He has his priorities all wrong. I am so angry for you.

Have you thought about confiding in his parents/your parents? You could do with some support here.

So... it's your fault for finding out, and not believing the lies he chooses to tell you.

Something on its head there innit?

You poor thing, but everything is there in your last post isn't it?

He has told you that he will have to cook something up to tell you, he hung up on you and is now screening your calls and worse still, you believe that he will leave you high and dry for money.

Could you phone your parents and tell them what has happened? Why would it be you leaving the family home anyway? Leaving for a few days as part of a grand gesture, is not the way to solve this anyway.

I'd suggest that if you want to part from him, it's better that you ask him to leave. You could ask your parents for a promise of financial help to tide you over in the short term, if your fear about his with-holding money, comes true. Having that safety net will give you more confidence to do what's right for you.

One of the things that can help you in the coming days is if you get an appointment with a solicitor to find out your legal rights and what money you will be entitled to. The CAB can also help with the credits and benefits that you might be able to claim, as well as how much money he will need to give you.

Oh Saffy what a cruel selfish man and very very controlling.

As has been said to palm you off with "I cant remember" is a tactic even my 11yo DD wouldnt bother trying. It says an awful lot about your relationship that he has firstly tried and secondly you bought it

Ask him to leave and get some space to think and also the practical steps WWIFN suggests would be a good idea. It doesnt commit you to any course of action.

It's telling that he is surprised that you are contining to question his story - and in fact, challenging his selfish and controlling behaviour. ie. him saying to you ' what's happened for YOU to be like this'. That indicates that in your relationship, he generally believes he can do what he likes and feed you whatever line he likes - and he is used to you simply going along with it.

I know the word gets bandied around a lot on MN but I think there sound like abusive traits here. He is lying to you - and deliberately trying to put the blame on you for continuing to bring up his behaviour. Trying to make you believe that if you don't want to accept the way he behaves, then you have a problem.

There are signs of gaslighting here...he just wants you to shut up basically - Im sorry, its really sad for you - but please see all of this as reason to leave him.

I would presume from the way he is treating you now - with complete disrespect - and the fact that you think he will stop supporting you immediately - that he has always been a selfish partner.

get yourself help from your family and see a counsellor for yourself as soon as possible - start examining the reality of this relationship.

This man sounds awful, why on earth do you put up with him? I'm so angry he thinks he can treat you so badly.
Good advice here - go and find out how to look after yourself financially and from the practical point of view.
You will be able to look after yourself, no matter how useless he has made you feel about money.
Looking back, you will realise you're better off without such a controlling selfish prat.

Men like this are just Trouble with a capital T.

We've talked, and gone round and round in circles. For an hour. He's still saying nothing has changed and he can't tell me anything else.

I put it to him that what if the woman he met with did float his boat, where would it have gone then? All I got was 'I was stupid to do it, can't explain why and nothing did happen though, did it?" like I should be grateful that she was older and a bit minging it seems.

I will start looking at the practical side of things. I looked at a school for my son in my parents' village back in Oct before all this came out - that tells you how unhappy I've been even before I found out about his betrayal. I wonder if I've steered away from looking at solicitors etc because we never have any money and he's got us both into debt and tbh I want to run away from all of that.

He has been controlling with money since I gave up my career to be a SAHM. He went through a stage of me having to ask him for money (and give a breakdown of what it was for) to put nappies on my DC's arses and food in their mouths. Meanwhile he was spending about 200 pm on booze (and porn subscriptions I later found out). So yes, he has controlled me and I went through a very low period confidence wise.

I think deep down I'd known he was upto no good for years but having talked me out of any self esteem I had left, I did put up and shut up for too long. Anyone who knows me knows that this 'isnt me' which is how I ended up being brave enough to go looking for his betrayal before Xmas.

My parents know we have been on the brink since Oct when I started looking at schools for my DS but haven't told them about this betrayal thing, they only know about the emotional abuse, name calling etc.

In talks today he said he doesnt want me feel trapped because of money and will 'see us right' - so perhaps I could look to get a little place around here and he pay for it at least until I get sorted and can get what he should give me through the official routes? You're right, why should we uproot everything for his fuck up? That said, we live 200 miles away from my family - where I still call home - we live where he grew up so there is nothing here for me but bad memories.