Will anyone ever love me properly?

[Nogoodatthis]

Saw my friend's engagement ring this weekend - massive whopping diamond. Her fiance went through a lot of hoops to get hold of it for her from another country as well.

I know it's not about the size of the rock, but it just made me sad to think that I couldn't imagine anyone loving me enough to go to the lengths my friend's fiance went to, to give me a massive diamond.

I've never been proposed to, ever. Instead I've just been in one shitty relationship after another, thanks to my crap childhood and total lack of understanding of boundaries and what's normal. Not to mention no self esteem.

I feel like I'm the one my friends and acquaintances talk about when they're trying to make themselves feel better about their own problems. Like, "Yeah I'm having a tough time but at least I'm not Nogoodatthis. Thank god I haven't had to deal with what she's been through."

Sorry for the self-indulgent pity rant. I just feel especially shit at the moment. All my friends are in long term relationships and starting to have children. All I want more than anything is to have a family with a man who loves me and whom I love. People do it all the time. Why is it so hard for me?? I feel like I'm destined to be the single, childless one everyone feels sorry for and secretly suspects I'm a lesbian in the closet or something.

I feel so sad and envious and I don't like myself for the envious bit but I can't help it :(

He didn't contact me at all last night. He's been on msn messenger all day today and no contact. I have no idea if I'm seeing him this week. Weds and Thurs are normally 'our' days when he has DC on the weekends but I don't know how to plan my week now.

What should I do? If I contact him now, that will be the...6th time in a row it will have been instigated by me vs 0 times from him.

It's fucked isn't it?

PS: Thank you for suggestions of counselling, I am already seeing a very good counsellor via BACP who says all the things that you are saying! (maybe you lot should start charging :)).

I'm working hard on loving myself and being kind to myself. I buy myself flowers once a week, I exercise and look after my body, I treat myself to massages once in a while just for the hell of it, I try to value myself, I'm really trying.

But what do I do about the more immediate problem of I need to know wtf I am doing this week - am I seeing him or not? Should I just ask him outright? I have no idea why I can't be assertive. I guess it's because if I instigate the conversation and call the shots, I'll never know if he would have done it independently. It means more when he does and says nice things first.

Maybe that's why I feel we're not getting anywhere?

I want and need to see him this week :(

Your choices are to either phone him and be straight about it; or don't phone him.

If you phone him:
a) say "I need to know what your plans are this week so I know whether to include you in my plans or not."
Make it sound as though you have plans that need to be arranged regardless, and you just need to know if he needs to be fitted in or not - try to sound as though it is of no consequence if he is busy.

b) phone him and say "I've been invited out on Friday night - so I won't be able to see you then, but are you still ok for Thursday?" See what he says.

Or if you really don't want to phone him, then arrange the week as though you are NOT seeing him. If he then does phone you on Wednesday or THursday, you can say "oh I'm sorry, I've already arranged to do X, as I hadn't heard from you and I don't want to always be the one organising our meet ups"

If this is the 7th time in a row that he hasn't committed to the days and you are having to chase him every week, then my opinion would be to STOP IT. If it means you don't see him, that's just the way it is. If he can't be bothered to phone you, then he doesn't value you as he ought to. Stay away from people who don't respect or value you.

By the way, I'm not suggesting playing games here - I'm suggesting you actually make plans to go out or do something if he isn't coming round - far better than moping at home!

Just talk to him. Ask if he wants the relationship to continue (and possibly if it's going anywhere).

I can't see the point in waiting for answers through ommission. Take the bull by the horns and put yourself out there.

Omission.

You want and need to see him - that's too needy by far.
You NEED to be able NOT to see him without getting all fretted by it.
You NEED to know that he values you.
You NEED to know that you value yourself enough to cut him loose if he doesn't value you enough.

You NEED to prioritise your self-worth over your needy need to be loved by other people.

You NEED to know that he values you.
You NEED to know that you value yourself enough to cut him loose if he doesn't value you enough.

This is the crux of it isn't it? The thing is, I haven't seen him since he left for work on Fri morning. Since then ALL contact we've had has been instigated by me. He always responds straight away and he always responds 'normally', but it bothers me that he hasn't spontaneously contacted me first.

Is that my answer to the first point then? That he doesn't really value me?

I feel like having it out with him - saying 'I need to know if you value me or not. How do you feel?'. Is that a crazy thing to do?

Hi nogood

Your thread really struck a chord with me. I'm 38, finally buried an on/off relationship with a commitment-phobic man last night (there is a thread on here)

I had a really bad childhood - absent father, was a care to my mum. I craved affection and as a result have a history of relationships with men that really are nasty and vile. I've never married and don't have children.

The most recent one is a cruel nasty man that I finally realised is not worth a second of my thoughts.

I also have to work on myself and the belief that I deserve a man that gives to me what I give to them.

I know it is going to be hard so I am taking time out from men altogether and working on myself.

Know your worth hon.

Well - if you hit him straight between the eyes with it you probably won't get a sane answer. you're more likely to get a reactive "of course I do!" without much thought behind it.

He might not be contacting you because he knows you'll contact him - he might be saving his mobile bill, he might be very busy at work - or he might just be enjoying having you run after him. Yet again, he might be trying to let you down ever-so-gently.
Can't know without asking - but if I were you I'd be less bull-at-the-gate about it, and ask him how he thinks things are going between you. If he says fine, he's very happy, then perhaps you could try probing a little further - but delicately. Then you could try saying how you feel about the situation - that you feel you are the one doing all the work but is it worth it?

How much does he know about your past, and about your counselling, if anything?

actually, I got sucked into just answering the direct question in your last post - no I think the crux of it was actually my last point in the post previous to yours - you NEED to priorities your self-worth... etc. etc.

Once you do that, the rest will come about by themselves.

Up to you whether you phone him again or not - I personally would try and ride it out, not contact him, but if/when he does make contact, THEN I would ask him the things you want to know. Delicately.

Yeah but for the next two weeks or however long she'd be on tenterhooks waiting to hear. I suppose she could fill that time, but she'd still be chcking texts and email and eurgh...

Personally I'd rather just have a chat with him and find out where I stood.

Sorry, dreafully mixed pronouns there - hope you got the gist of what I was trying to say anyway!

I did thumbwitch thank you!

I know what you're all saying is right. I'm from the zikes school of impatience that I'd rather just have the conversation and get it out in the open, but I think there is something to be said for the gentle approach and just keeping on keeping on and seeing what move he makes next.

It's so fucking hard though. Plus I'm going away this weekend with work - the first weekend in the past month that he hasn't had DC and I have to go away! The timing is so shit. Then, when I get back, he has the DC again so if I don't see him this Weds, Thus, Fri then I can't see him until two weeks on Weds at the earliest.

I feel increasingly resentful that he never acknowledges how hard it is for me to be second best the whole time to his kids (I know that makes me sound like a horrible person, please don't hate me). But after 6 months I think he ought to be taking into account the fact that I've been bending over backwards to fit in with his schedule with the DCs so that we can spend enough time together. That's why Weds and Thurs are a big deal, because it's the two days of the week that he never has DC so I always make sure I keep them free because if I made plans for myself those days and then it was a weekend he had the DC, it could easily be a week - 10 days before I saw him again.

The solution surely is to begin to introduce me more into his life? Shouldn't we be having conversations about when/if it's appropriate for me to meet DCs? I can't go on like this, I want a proper relationship and not every other weekend (or for the past month, EVERY weekend) to be me feeling like I'd rather be with him. At least if I was single I could spend weekends dating and stuff. Potentially meeting someone who I could have a family with.

I think I'm sounding really selfish now. Sorry, I'm just hurt and upset.

I had been worried that if I didn't contact him and waited for him to contact me that he might worry that I didn't like him any more but that's stupid isn't it because he obviously doesn't have the same concerns in reverse. Also, I make it quite clear to him how much I like him all the time. Granted I haven't said ILY, but I've not been a cold fish either. If he thinks I'm not massively into him then he must be dumb or blind.

I think I'll just leave him to get in touch with me if he wants to .

Good choice, Nogood.

Can I ask you something about the things you do for yourself? When you do them, do you really feel that you are doing something nice for yourself, or is there an element of cynicism involved, as in "I'm doing this because my counsellor said I should but it's all a bit silly really, it doesn't make me feel any better about myself"?

Have you ever been asked to write down a list of your positive points? It would possibly be quite small, and also possibly every point would be conditional (been there, done it). A good exercise is to ask your best friend to write down a list of your positive points from their point of view. And you then have to just say thank you, and accept them as true. Because if you can't accept them, then your friend is either a liar or has poor judgement - and you're not going to believe that about your friend, are you now. It's a good exercise - gets you both ways!

Impatient, me?

Well, ok, then make sure you fill your time and don't spend it waiting for the phone to ring, all mournful like.

big hugs,

I'm to young to have any real advice, but you seem to have a lot going for you. chin up

Good question TW. Ummm, I don't know if cynical is the right word, but I feel like I'm doing it not because I'm genuinely being loving towards myself, but because I'm doing it because I don't have anyone else in my life to do it for me.

I realise that sounds strange. I can't expect someone else to make me feel good my whole life. Intellectually I know that, but deep down, that's really what I want. Someone to unconditionally adore me the way my mum never did.

I don't know how I even begin to resolve that. My counsellor is great but I don't see how she's even going to be able to touch the sides.

I've never tried the exercise you've described - maybe I will. My friends, and DP too, say some lovely things about me but I just cannot believe they are true. I think I must be good at faking it and then panic about them discovering the real, shit me and not wanting to know.

Wow, I didn't even know I was going to say any of that stuff when I started writing this; it just came out.