Misery - Sorry, another long one.

[KDogg]

Hi all,

I'm seriously starting to worry about my relationship with my wife. Before we had our son 16 months ago, we used to have serious discussions but we never argued. I guess we liked to think we were more mature than that....

Anyway, we really struggled with the first 6 months of parenthood. I felt like I'd made a huge mistake even after being 100% certain I was looking forward to having kids throughout my life, the reality didn't match my expectations (God only knows what I was expecting though!) and although slightly different I think my wife felt the same and we both felt like we'd bitten off more than we could chew.

10 months down the line we both absolutely adore him and every day watching him learn to do something new and performing any acts from his repertoire of cuteness has finally brought about a previously unknown feeling of joy, alas something in the background is seriously souring the whole thing.

I should first point out that I come from a severely broken home. My parents divorced when I was 8 and my younger brother was 3, and they proceeded to drag each other and me and my brother through court hurling accusations at each other. My mother was a "slut" and my dad was a "wifebeater" and to this day, the pair of them seem completely oblivious to the repurcussions it's had on my and my brother and if I choose to say something when one of them is whining on about the other I just get "You don't understand, we protected you from everything that was going on....".
I'm about to turn 30, and every time I visit my dad, I would put my house on the fact that within half an hour the conversation will turn to him moaning about my mother and what she did to him, blah blah...

In light of this, I have always sworn to myself that I would never ever impose something like that on my kids when I have them as I genuinely think although I lead a decent life, I haven't escaped completely unscarred.

My wife however comes from a very solid family, something of which I was openly envious of when I first met her and said often how lucky she is to have that behind her, as opposed to me being the only adult in my family.

I don't claim to be perfect however, and have a moderately serious spending addiction and I have been in debt pretty much constantly since I turned 16. Asides from our mortgage, this isn't a significantly serious case and my debt is currently at it's highest with me owing about £3,000 on loans and credit cards. I only earn about £200 over my monthly outgoings so don't have a lot of money to play with and I seem completely unable to cope with that. I've also had a bad few years since meeting my wife and after leaving a good job where I was well respected on the promise of better prospects, I have been sacked twice and made redundant twice.

My wife on the other hand is 6 years older than me and earns twice as much as me and has always supported me by helping me reduce my spending and debt only for me to fall off the wagon and do something silly to get back into debt. She pays a larger portion of our outgoings, but she makes sure I pay my fair share.

As for our sex life, I have a fairly high libido, whereas I'm not sure she knows the meaning of the word. I've always felt that I didn't really mind because I love her so much and figured the love between us far outweighed the need for sexual gratification so was happy with what we had.

As she fell pregnant, our sex life deteriorated even further even though I didn't think it could, and we had sex once during the pregnancy (we did try a second time but it was so uncomfortable it was a passionkiller), we've had sex once since our son was born which seemed to be so uncomfortable for my wife that we stopped. I tried to ask her what was wrong but she just said nothing and wouldn't really engage in any conversation about it, and that is the way we left it.

We've had several big arguments recently about nothing significant. During one of the arguments she lashed out and slapped me which just blew me away. I would never so much as raise a hand to her, especially considering the background I come from. Afterwards she was very apologetic and we talked about it and left it at that.
A few weeks back, our son was having a vomiting spree and threw up all over his bedroom floor, so my wife picked him up and took him into our bedroom where he continued to throw up all over our brand new and expensive carpet. She started screaming at me to get something to clean it up with while I was trying to shout over her and tell her to get out of the bedrooms and into the bathroom where it can simply be mopped up. Again, she lashed out and went to slap me, but held herself back. As she walked past me, I (stupidly) warned her firmly that if she ever hit me again I wouldn't stop myself from reciprocating.

I'm not a violent person. Quite the opposite. I spent quite a lot of time as a teenager hanging around with crusties and generally loathe violence, but everyone has a fuse.

Since the second epidsode, I just feel like our relationship has plummeted. My current job is stressful but going well and I genuinely feel like I prefer being at work than I do at home.

I feel like I'm living with my mother.
She checks my receipts whenever she finds them to see what I've been "wasting" my money on even though 9 times out of 10 it's just groceries I've picked up on my way home.

She constantly comments on how much food I cook or how long it takes me to cook, or if I do anything remotely carelessly or forget about anything regardless how minor it is, she makes a big deal about it.

She now also thinks I'm having an affair. I didn't help matters by flirting with a girl from work, even though I made it clear to my wife what I was doing and why. At our work christmas party this girl came to give me a kiss on the cheek as I was getting on the full coach to go home and she genuinely lost balance and missed and just gave me a peck on the lips. Not expecting it I raised an eyebrow at her and made a harmless joke about it. I told my wife the next day in the same joking context and said I was going to wind her up about it. Anyway, the result was that I took it too far and my wife found a message on the internet that I sent which I admit was slightly over the line and I shouldn't have taken it that far. That remains the end of it. I apologised to my wife about it and tried to assure her it was a joke and I accept she doesn't think it's funny and in retrospect I don't think it's very funny, but there you go, what can I do.

On valentines day my youngest brother (my mother went on to have another child with a different husband) who is 8 wanted to get a card for my mother so I got him one. nevertheless my wife found the receipt and flew off the handle asking who I'd bought a second card for. I explained but I don't think she believed me, but now I'm getting angry because she keeps checking on me and treating me like a 12 year old.

We argued the other day because we're having a new kitchen installed soon and she's annoyed that I have made little to no effort to put any input in to the decisions about it and she feels like she's doing all the work. I tried to explain to her that I don't feel it's my place to make any decisions because she's using her savings to pay for everything and as usual, I have nothing financially to contribute so why should I get any say in what goes in.

I just don't know what to do. I'm sick of being pushed around and bossed around by her, but at the same time I feel like I deserve it because of my carelessness and insolvency, but added to that, because she's not remotely interested in sex with me I feel like I'm completely undesireable and unwanted and just a pain in the arse to the point where I think my negetivity to the situation is born from me being a spoilt brat who's just stamping their feet about not getting their own way.

I'm at the point where I'm so unhappy I've thought about divorce, but I'm not sure I could bring myself to do that to my son. On a daily basis, I just feel like I don't even like my wife anymore let alone love her although on the odd day I'll get a little pang of love for her, but not in comparison to how I normally feel now.

I thought relationships were supposed to be about mutual respect and balance, but how can we possibly have that when I can't contribute what she does?

I'm at a complete loss.

I wouldn't for one second defend anyone raising their hand to anyone - she is bang out of line for slapping you.

But, if we can put that to one side while we look at the context of the rest of your relationship I can certainly see that you are a child within your relationship and don't seem to be willing or able to do anything about it.

So you're continuously in debt and despite her having bailed you out on more than one occasion you get yourself straight back into debt again? Well I can understand why she'd be checking up on your spending, you obviously have no handle on your finances.

You walked away from a good job with prospects and have since been fired twice? Redundancy is unfortunately a sign of the difficult times we're in at the moment but why were you fired? And to be fired twice? I'd be pretty pissed off if I were her - especially if I'd been paying off your debt.

And in addition to being a working mother, the bread winner, and having to check you're not pissing the household income up the wall, she's now also having to pay for and single handedly project manage some pretty serious building work to YOUR home?

If you were my H, I wouldn't be physically violent with you but bloody hell, I would find it very hard to respect you enough to fancy you and want to have sex with you. Your post reads like one big teenage whinge.

Strap on a pair, sort your debt out and start pulling your weight. If it's not too late, she might stop feeling like your mother and start feeling like you're her equal again.

Try

mankind

for more helpful advice than "Strap on a pair"

I feel like I'm living with my mother.

Not surprising really though, is it? You seem to be incapable of looking after yourself financially or careeer-wise. Why did you leave a perfectly good job that had prospects? I wonder, given your background, if you are one of those people who is afraid to actually make a success of anything?

even though 9 times out of 10 it's just groceries

And the 10th time is what?

I tried to explain to her that I don't feel it's my place to make any decisions because she's using her savings to pay for everything and as usual, I have nothing financially to contribute so why should I get any say in what goes in.

You live there. It's your house too. Of course you should have a say and she obviously wants you to. She wants you to be a man, actually, not a little boy.

I agree absoultely that she shouldn't have slapped you, though. I have a male friend who suffered serious physical abuse for years and I don't take such things lightly.

Motherhood can put some women off sex for quite a while, she needs more understanding on this point.

Violence from any side is unforgiveable. You might want to talk to a counsellor about that, the link above is good.

Now you're a father you need to come to terms with money - she is taking all responsiblity for this and it must feel like a extra burden, apart from a baby and a job (which are bad enough on their own!), on her shoulder if you can't pull your weight. She must feel under a lot of pressure.

She needs the help of a husband not a part-timer.

I think she must feel like she's your mother too.

Tell us more about how you reacted to early fatherhood. Do you think she is harbouring any resentment for perceived lack of support during that time?

The slap is obviously very bad indeed, but it is clearly a symptom of many many issues here which you need to unpick if you do want to stay together. Obviously there needs to be a very clear no-violence-whatsoever agreement between you that she must stick to. But don't let that become a big focus straight away or you could just get stuck on it.

Sounds like some sort of joint counselling is a must here.

You flirted with a girl who then lost her balance and ended up kissing you on the lips??? And you seriously don't understand why your wife didn't believe you? And then after sending an innappropriate message you're complaining that your wife suspects infidelity.

You sound like a teenage boy who has no control over anything. You get yourself (and therefore your family) into debt because you can't control your spending habits. You get sacked from jobs. You refuse to take part in decision-making. Is it any wonder your wife doesn't find that particularly attractive.

You need to get to the bottom of why you feel the need to spend what you don't have. Until you get out there and do that, the pattern is going to continue.

I think like many people you are reliving your parental relationships within your marriage. You have issues as does your wife.

It sounds like a fairly typical six of one and half a dozen of the other situation.

You both have huge resentment of one another for various incidents and I do honestly think it sounds like a relatively normalish problem that some relationships will get hit with after the birth of a child.

Re your incident with a girl at work. Most people's workplace affairs start from situations that got out of hand unintentionally. Not many people go to work with the intention of cheating on their wife - but many people end up doing it. Indeed the crossing of the line is a gradual slippery process and you should know for your own sanity that you started on that slippery slope - even though you don't think you did and you think/thought that there was no chance of a full blown affair. That's how it happens - not because people are fundamentally wicked.

I should think that both of you are seriously considering divorce. However, even if you came to an agreement and started this off, the reality of the separation can be a terrible shock for all concerned. Despite it being what you thought you actually wanted. In the absence of abuse, it is not advisable to divorce in the first 2 years of a child's life because it is such a flashpoint.

You need to both stare into the abyss that is separation and divorce and try and rescue this marriage because none of the problems seem insurmountable.

Your DW found an inappropriate message and you are both unhappy so it is the logical conculsion for her to draw that you are cheating.

I think you should probably get someone to look after your DS so that you can have some serious talking time and decide how you are going to fix these problems and stop hating eachother.

Do you remember why you got together in the first place?

If your wife is the breadwinner, what are your plans from here on in? To get another job? Or have you considered becoming a stay at home dad?
As for finances, in my household my husband gets the primary control because I am a spendthrift...I've never been in debt but give me access to a couple of grand and it would vanish into the void with perhaps a couple of nice towels to show for it, does that ring a bell?
As for marriage, it is hard work, espcially with the addition of a young child and debt. But love, true grown up love is when you get past the romanticising and you do have to work for it!
I think both your wife and yourself could do with both individual and couple counselling. Talking things through with an outside party really helps you look at things and think, rather than just reacting.
I wish you, your wife and your child well xx

If I were your DW I would not buy the line about buying a Valentine's card on behalf of your 8 year old brother. At 8, he would either buy his own or make one. This is especially in the context of following on from "accidentally" kissing another woman on the lips and then sending internet messages that are "over the line". Throw in the fact that you don't pull your weight earning, or round the house, and I am not surprised your DW isn't up for too much sex. oh, and threatening to hit her won't have helped, even though I agree with the other posters that her slap is completely out of order and you should ensure she knows you won't put up with that (but not that you will hit her back!)

You need to think carefully about what you are giving in this relationship. It doesn't sound too late to bring things round if you put in a MASSIVE effort. The sex will return naturally enough after that. You CAN have a happy family life but it won't come to you on a plate. You need to grow up and take some responsibility.

Thanks for your help although a couple of those felt a little like personal attacks rather than constructive criticism.

I'm the first to admit that I'm hard work but I guess it still helps to hear from outside my head for once.

I should also point out that I'm not interested in having an affair let alone with the girl in question. I don't fancy her and she's engaged to get married in the next few months. It really isn't an issue. Nonetheless I do see how it looks from her perspective.

She's not project managing it coz I've arranged all the contractors doing the work. I work in building maintenance so sourced them all through my contacts.

As for my dismissals, the first job I lost was because I had been given the use of a van to use when we moved house by the company fleet manager and he told me it was fine to use it. I ran it by the director too and he was fine with it. When I returned it a different manager told me I hadn't been insured to use it and started disciplinary procedures. Unfortunately for me, the fleet manager denied all responsibility and the director was on holiday then so I couldn't talk to him about it. They'd just lost a large number of contracts for council housing redevelopments so I suspect it had something to do with the forcast downturn in workload.

The second company I lost my job through were a small plumbing company who demanded all of the lads work from 6am till often well after midnight and we all hated it and the way they treated us but I decided to stand my ground, as I wasn't getting home in the evenings to help with my parental duties so they just made my life as hard as possible and would give me jobs on the other side of the next county at times like 4:45 (contracted to finish at 5) along with constant threats of redundancy. They eventually sacked me because I refused to go to a job when I wasn't on duty and they claimed that I'd shouted and been abusive towards to girl trying to give me the job (which I wasn't, I was just firm and refused) and sacked me for it.

I'm currently studying and training for a better career alongside my current job which as I say is going very well.

I'm not as bothered about the sex as I may have implied, just the lack of it just further reinforces the feeling of alienation.

You're probably right though. I probably just need to pull my socks up but I just feel like I'm constantly doing what my wife wants me to do which I know is the common cry of married men but I don't want to spend my entire life being told what to do. I don't see why I should have to "earn" that. Am I not a human being?

Another issue I have which I'd forgotten to mention is that we moved away from where I'm from to be closer to where my wife is from which I was fully insupport of possibly even instigated, but we're surrounded by her friends and family and I see my friends rarely so kind of feel like I'm trapped in her world sometimes which I obviously don't feel I'm fitting in with very well.

I just need to pull my socks up and put a bit more effort in I guess.

Just going back to when I was sacked the second time, I spent the following 3 months looking for a new job but obviously as a house husband as well which I think massively improved my relationship with him.

It sounds like you like to stand your ground with people to test them, maybe that was the attraction of your wife and the employers, many people would not have gone there with both and spotted the signs, a bit of a see how far they will go to make you be the victim thing. I am not judging here, making an observation from your posts on how you interact with people who have you by the balls financially, your wife and empoyers.

I'm sorry BellaSwanCullen, I don't follow. It sounded like you're implying that I wind people up on purpose to give myself a hard time.

It is not unheard of for people to choose others who fill roles from childhood to work through unresolved issues with. Many people do that KDogg, it is like many things we do in life that are not good for us, once you are aware you are doing it you can then work on stopping that behaviour if it is unhelpful to you and causing you trouble in your life.

Can I also make it clear that she does not pay off my debts? I pay off my own debts and wouldn't expect her to do that, I was merely making reference to the fact I'm crap with money. Fridakahio I think you got me.

I work 45 hours per week and as I work closer to home than my wife does I generally get home first so spend the most time looking after our son, especially when she works late and plays hockey other nights and on the weekend.

I have looked at getting a second job to increase my income but don't see where I can fit it in alongside my current job, picking our son up from the Childminder, looking after him until my wife gets in from work and studying. Hopefully once I'm qualified my career and salary prospects should be much better.

I don't want a divorce. Not only do I love my wife, I love my in-laws too and couldn't bear to put this on them but I just can't picture the rest of our lives being like this.

Oh and about the valentine's card. He was staying with us that weekend and he asked if he could get a card for my mother when we were in the supermarket so I just paid for the two cards together. Surely that's not too hard to imagine.

Bella I see what you're saying and I suppose you could be right to a certain degree but I'm not sure how my employers fit into that.

I slogged my guys out in my last job to try and keep out if the constant threat the franchise manager and his wife seemed to enjoy employing so much and it was hard on my wife too but I certainly didn't play the victim with them. I was constantly trying my hardest to get out of their desperately unwanted spotlight.

I'm gonna have a sit down and talk with my wife tonight. It's my birthday tomorrow and we're spending the day together so hopefully some time alone without the boy might allow us to chill out a bit.

Do you know why you keep spending money? (Obviously you don't need to say the reason on here). Knowing the cause could help you find a solution.

Could you and your wife come to an agreement where you have a trial run for a set period in which she promises not to check up on spending and you in return promise not to buy things that you shouldn't? I would try a short period to start with. If you genuinely can't keep to that agreement then I think you should really consider getting some outside help to deal with the issue. Sorting the money side out will go a long way in changing the mother/child relationship you and your wife have ended up in.

If the money you bring into the family pot is being spent on paying off your debts, then your family/wife are paying off your debts, as your salary would have gone into the family pot and distributed elsewhere!

ok sex thing is normal -completely normal- you need to spend ages looking after your wife emotionally, like hugs, massaging just be really really lovely and it'll help her relax and after a few weeks/months it'll pick up again. But for a lot of women sex is only fulfilling if it comes with emotionally stability and affection.

you need to get yourself out of this cycle- your wife treats you like a child because of your spending problems and she check receipts because the family money is the family money. you say youre paying off your own debts but im sorry i dont agree- youre paying off the family debts that youve created- doesnt matter where the money is coming from- the money couldve been spent on something else.
agree with bella on this one.

telling your wife about office goings on probs did nothing for her if she's feeling insecure.

please please just be nice to your wife as much as possible. It really is the only way to get some respect and love back into the realtionship

Why should your wife want sex with you, when you spunk all the family money up the wall, flirt with other women and whine that you're 'not going to be pushed around'? What the fuck is she getting out of having you in the household?
You sound incredibly smug, inadequate and entitled - everything's someone else's fault and you take no responsibility for your own behaviour.
If I was her I wouldn't have slapped you, necessarily, I would have stabbed you by now but I would have told you to pack your bags and piss off until you grew up.

She now also thinks I'm having an affair. I didn't help matters by flirting with a girl from work, even though I made it clear to my wife what I was doing and why.

Why did you make it clear to your wife and why ?
Sorry to be harsh but you sound like someone who very much enjoys negative attention , what with the spending , openly flirting ect . How did your wife come to see the message that was over the line ? Ive a feeling you engineered that so that she would see it.

You complain about your wife checking receipts ect , but if its so offensive to you why havent you resolved it ? I would not be willing to superise a grown man in this way , in fact , i wouldnt be willing to supervise my teens spending in this way. I suspect you enjoy being in this victim role to some extent.

Your spending alone is irresponsible and puts you in the role of a teenager instead of a husband.To some extent i would veiw that as some sort of childish rebellion on your part. You know she doesnt like it , you know your going to get caught yet you do it anyway. Its all a bit naughty boyish .

Im afraid id have divorced you when it became apparant you couldnt be trusted with money. You obviously have been less than honest re finances and i would assume that someone who is capable of lying about finances is capable of lying about other things.

It really is unfair to behave in such a way that your wife has to monitor your spending , and then to complain about it.

"I've also had a bad few years since meeting my wife"
"My wife on the other hand is 6 years older than me and earns twice as much as me and has always supported me by helping me reduce my spending and debt only for me to fall off the wagon and do something silly to get back into debt."

Reading the above, it sounds as if you have had a bad few years since meeting your wife because you have (consciously or not) fallen into teenager/mother roles, because your wife is now here to "mother" you, whereas before her you presumably coped on your own because you had to.

When did you move away from your parents? You do seem to depend on the kind of people you spent youth with as "proof" that you couldn't possibly be as unreasonable as your wife thinks now.

"9 times out of 10 it's just groceries I've picked up on my way home."
What is it the 10th time then?

"if I do anything remotely carelessly or forget about anything regardless how minor it is, she makes a big deal about it."
Is it always something "remotely" careless? Who is it "minor" to?

"Anyway, the result was that I took it too far and my wife found a message on the internet that I sent which I admit was slightly over the line"
Slightly? and again, over whose line? Yours, or "just" hers?

"I have nothing financially to contribute so why should I get any say in what goes in."
You seem to have trouble telling the difference between contributing advice and saying what goes. Given that you've also said "I just feel like I'm constantly doing what my wife wants me to do which I know is the common cry of married men but I don't want to spend my entire life being told what to do." I wonder if you have the same trouble when it comes to understanding your wife.

Why aren't what you want to do, and what your wife wants you to do, the same thing? You've already acknowledged you need to pull your socks up. Why not just do it?

"I didn't help matters by flirting with a girl from work, even though I made it clear to my wife what I was doing and why"

Have you ever seen ?

I think you and your wife need more help than a forum can provide. I really think you should go to relate or similar before this gets worse.

Have you ever considered getting a fucking grip? Have you got tht catholic sensibility that means you can go oh, boohoo, i'm a naughty goblin, sorry and then carry on and do the same shit again?