Do you need to know everything?

[Ladywolf]

My husband left back in August, we had been married for almost 12 years, he just said he wasn't happy anymore. We have 2 children together aged 4 and 20 months. He has been renting his own flat and visiting the chidren 2-3 times a week at the family home. He had a younger female friend staying with him occasionally on the weekends, she is now out of the picture. We have been talking more lately. He isn't ready to come back but thinks he might like to work towards it. I would like to work towards it to. I have questions about his friend, but is it better not to ask them and just try to move on from where we are. I have told him that we both have to take things slow and be very sure this is what we both want, it wouldn't be fair to put the kids through him leaving a second time if things didn't work. I love him still but is that enough? Any advise welcome.

I think you have to ask yourself if you could live with never knowing about this friend. If you don't ask now then it could be in months or years, if he moves back in, it eats away at you and drives you so crazy that you have to ask. If he said something had happened with this friend what would you do? At least if you ask now then you can decide if you want to make a go of this relationship. It might be the case that this friend was nothing but a friend, and then your mind would be at rest. If it were me, I would have to know.
I would also like him to be a bit more enthusiastic than "might like to work towards it". I think that's a bit of a cop out, personally. He should be begging you to take him back.
I have a friend that is married, and had kids and then her hubby left her. He has been messing her around for the last couple of years now. Turns up when he fancies it. She lets him mess her around in the hope that he'll move back in one day and she'll have her family back but I think he's probably quite happy getting the best of both worlds - the single life with no kids to worry about, and then the family life when he wants it. I don't think he'll ever move back in with her and she is so scared that he'll leave her given the ultimatum of either moving back or splitting up, that she's too scared to say anything about how she feels.
I'm not saying that this will happen to you, but I just want you to be aware of what could happen. It could be that your hubby has realised that he's made a mistake and that he wants to come back, but from what you said, he doesn't sound very sure about it.
You need to make sure that you keep the visits with the kids separate to your relationship. And, actually, why does he visit the kids at your home? Doesn't he have them stay at his? Doesn't he take them out to give you a break and the opportunity at a social life?
I know I am being very sceptical here, I had a very unsatisfactory relationship a few years ago which ended and DD hasn't seen her Dad since :(
You need to make sure you realise that you are fully capable of looking after your children yourself and that you don't need him. You need that confidence in yourself so that you don't end up getting back together with him just because you don't want to be alone or because you want things the way they were because it is unlikely to be the same. Could you trust him again? Even if he claims nothing happened with this friend of his, would you believe him?
As you said, take it slowly and make sure you are completely happy with what is happening. Your happiness is of paramount importance. Your kids' happiness is dependent on yours.
I wish you luck with whatever decision you make.

He isn't ready to come back but thinks he might like to work towards it.

Just that phrase suggests that he doesn't really want to come back. Sorry. I think you need to move on.

I remember your other threads and your total shock and bewilderment when he suddenly said that he was unhappy and was leaving. He didn't want to even try counselling, as I recall.

We all said then that we had healthy suspicions about an OW and I know you tried to find out, but could find no evidence. So it comes as no surprise to see your thread and read about a "young female friend" who no doubt, he is insistent came along after you split up.

Now that this relationship has withered on the vine, your H is wondering whether he wants to come back, but is sounding half-hearted. That's presumably because he has always suspected that all it would take was the gentlest hint from him and you would welcome him back. He has also managed to see the DCs in the family home, having unboundaried access to his home comforts while never having to face the realities of caring for his children on his own at night.

You can never re-build a marriage based on lies, deceits or certain subjects being off-limits. You certainly can't deal with an affair and not talk about it thereafter, because it will happen again.

If you are going to try again, he needs to be honest that he was having an affair all along and you need to be honest with yourself too. Pretending that this didn't happen isn't going to stop it being the truth. In your shoes, I wouldn't entertain any reconciliation until I knew everything. If you meekly let him come back, I promise you that now he has learnt that he can pull the wool over your eyes and suffer no consequences, he will continue to disprespect you and it will get worse.

You are worth more than this, you know.

Oh dear. Please don't take him back now that he only wants it when the other woman is gone. It will last exactly until the next one comes along.

Thank you all for replies, especially when will i feel normal. I am definately not going to meekly let him come back. I have since told him i'll need to know everything, and also told him of a few changes that would have to occur before i'd even consider it. Since then he appears to be blowing a little cold, stating he doesn't want to rush things and not telling me anything. I suspect he thought it would be easy, but i have managed for six months without him and will continue to do so. I think i've made it too easy for him, letting him visit the children here, when i should have been letting him look after them on his own. I just didn't want to miss out on any time with them. My sister says i shouldn't look at it like that, i should think of it as me time. Time for some changes i think.

You need to ask him why he thinks he wants to work at coming back. Is he because his lover lady friend is out of the picture?

I absolutely agree with WWIFN, but I have to go a step further and give you my own personal advice

I could never let a man like this back into my life

he has had many, many opportunities to be truthful with you

he still is feeding you lies and evasions

when you try and pin him down, he is still wriggling off the hook and "blowing cold"

you can never trust him with your heart

you should not try, he will hurt you again

I have never seen such an example where a man has done so little to atone for wrongdoing

he hasn't suffered any conseqences at all, he's just had an extended holiday from the responsibilities of daily family life, with the added bonus of a dalliance with a lovely young lady

now that has sooo obviously run its course, he wants to saunter back without fixing what was wrong (with him) before

why the heck are you even considering it ?

you sound so incredibly passive...I still don't see any anger nor respect for yourself in your posts

tell him he has to look after the children at his own place

be sure to tell him you're going out

what? i think he has forgotten that you can have fun too, and that you can bag yourself a fella if you want to

Ladywolf for now, I wouldn't even say to him that there is a chance of reconciliation. If you've told him that there might be, say you have been giving it some more thought and actually, you've changed your mind. That you don't want to get back together after all.

Then start to make changes. Take your sister's advice and ask your H to look after the DCs himself, giving you some space. Don't tell him where you're going or what you're doing.

Internally, you can give yourself permission to change your mind again, but if this marriage is ever going to work, it needs to be a new relationship. But before that starts, he needs to fight tooth and nail for you and the marriage he so casually ditched because of a fling. He also needs to be honest about what happened.

I wouldn't give him any hope at the moment at all.

at he moment, it isn't even "hope" he is feeling

it is "expectation" and "entitlement"

please think very carefully about what the differences mean to him, to you....and to the value of any furture relationship you may or may not have

Some very wise lyrics from the wonderful The Beautiful South "A Little Time"...

I need a little time,
To think it over,
I need a little space,
Just on my own
I need a little time
To find my freedom
I need a little time.........

Funny how quick the milk turns sour, isn't it, isn't it ?
Your face has been looking like that for hours, hasn't it, hasn'tit?
Promises, promises turn to dust
Wedding bells just turn to rust
Trust into mis-trust

I need a little room
To find myself
I need a little space
To work it out
I need a little room
All alone
I need a little..........

Need a little room for your big head, don't ya, don't ya?
Need a little space for a thousand beds, won't you, won't you?
Lips that promise feel the worst
Tounge so sharp the bubble bursts
Just into un-just

I had a little time
To find the truth
I had a little room
To check whats wrong
I need a little time
I still love you
I need a little..........

Had a little time and you had a little fun, didn't ya, didn'tya?
Well you had yours do you think I had none, do ya, do ya?
The freedom that you wanted so bad
Is yours for good, I hope your glad
Sad into un-sad

I had a little time
To think it over
Had a little room
To work it out
I found a little courage
To call it off

Ladywolf - he is nowhere near ready to be 'tied down' to family life again.

I doubt that this 'young female friend' was a new adventure once he'd left you, I should imagine that she was in the background in one form or another.

WWIFN and Peter both give excellent advice here.

Reading your OP sets alarm bells ringing with me I'm afraid.

For me, I'd need to know EVERYTHING. Every little detail. Sex, days out, evenings out, where they went, the lot.

As hard as it is to hear, if he is ever going to be aloud back into your life as your partner, he has to open himself to you and tell you everything.

Otherwise, it will always be there, hanging over you, waiting to be used as your (or his) weapon of choice if you fall out/argue.

And you really have to dig deep to see if YOU want this man back in your life. What if this happens again? How do you think the DCs will be with him coming home.

Surely they've only just got to grips with the two of you being apart?

Why has he changed now? What's going to be different this time?

Is he only considering coming back because he quite likes being 'looked after'?

Look at his reasons for coming back, and for yours to let him.

It has to be more than that you love him. Much, much more.

'allowed' sorry

Oh Peter, I know every word of that song and every word is so true to life.....

LadyWolf, sound advice from both WWIFN and Peter

LW...where are you ?

IHLH...hope you are ok x

I'm ok, you can't die of being stupid, can you?

Ladywolf

Has anything else happened?

you ok, LW ?

Where do i start? He has seen his young friend again the weekend, so not quite as out of the picture as assumed. And although i didn't kid myself that we would get back together and had no expectations, it feels like my insides have been ripped out again. I have been a right fool again. What is wrong with me.

NOTHING is wrong with you, everything is wrong with him. Please don't waste any more head space on this complete loser, you are worth and deserve so much more than this pathetic excuse for a man. Forget him, please.

Nothing wrong with YOU Ladywolf. You are a kind, trusting, generous person and your kids are very lucky to have such a wonderful Mum. I bet you're a fabulous friend and a great partner too.

Listen to your sister. Me time, is what you need. Lovely nights out with friends, cinema, gym, dancing, theatre, whatever rocks your boat.

Oh sweetheart

I agree with rubberbutton, you are NOT to blame and there is NOTHING wrong with you. NOTHING!

You haven't been a fool, you've thought about trusting your husband's word and there is nothing wrong in that, you know him, we don't.

Maybe this had to happen for you to realise that you are worth much, much more than this?

What does he have to offer you? You'll never truly trust him again, he's made no effort to come home, not really.

He has his cake and he's going to eat it, if you let him.

Don't.

Take this as a red light. And as Billy Ocean once sang, red light spells danger

He's just not worth it, is he? Really?

Please, start to take the steps you need to, to remove him from your life. He has less than no respect for you.

He doesn't have the same feelings for you as you do for him.

It's time to call it a day x

One of the things I'd encourage you to do is to stop using euphemisms. She isn't his "young friend", she is the woman he has been having an affair with.

Get tough now and insist he looks after the DCs at his own place without help from you. Try and carve out a life for yourself and don't let him back in. I'm pretty sure this other relationship will fizzle out, but you should give him no more chances at all.

Also, try to see that how he's behaving with her demonstrates that he is not a good man at the moment. All the while he is continuing a relationship with her, he has been trying to keep the door open with you. While there's an argument for saying she at least knew she was engaged in a relationship with a deceitful liar, you now know that too.

My goal in these situations is for both women to call his bluff and show him the door, once and for all, but you can only be responsible for your own behaviour Ladywolf. The OW has got to look out for herself.

There is nothing wrong with you, but you have been extremely naive

Young friend ?

She is the woman he is committing adultery with. A "young friend" is someone who just have a coffee with, not share bodily fluids.

What an utter shit you have found him out to be...trying to weasel his way back into the family home whilst still keeping her on the boil.

This is your final red flag, LW

Please, please, please take heed of it and put any future with this man as your romantic partner out of your mind for good

Co-parents, as amicable as you can both make it, from now is the way to go

And stop letting him use the family home as if he was still a part of it. It isn't, he chose that path. He takes he kids out, to give you a proper break.