Stuck in the middle of an impossible family row... at a loss as to what to do.

[Haleana]

Hi,

This is a long story so I'll try to be concise. My brother and sister-in-law have a two-year old daughter and another babe on the way within the next few weeks. The relationship between my mum and SIL has always been strained. They have been together since their early teens (now mid 20s) and moved in together in their mid to late teens. According to them mum confronted them in a shop (random I know) and basically accused SIL of taking away her boy. I'd like to point out at this point that mum is Filipino and doesn't always get across what she means to say very well. She also has a tendency to say the wrong thing a LOT of the time and then wonder why she's upset someone.

Fast forward a few years and bro and SIL are married. Then, inevitably, fall pregnant and have my parent's first grandchild. SIL is naturally a very private and independant person, she's not at all cuddly but is pretty down-to-earth but has a temper and seems to be very stubborn at times (from what I've experienced). There were the usual gripes that come with a new baby/grandchild, between the MIL and my SIL. Typical like, the loaded question of whether SIL was STILL breastfeeding her after so long, perceived criticism over certain aspects of their parenting skills etc, etc. Now I can quite believe that things were said but I'm very certain none of them were meant to harm. Trouble is, my niece is now two and a half and the relationship between them has become so difficult, I'm not sure it's going to last much longer. SIL has told me that her relationship with my mum is dead (her words) and that nothing would salvage it now. My parents are saying that SIL is the reason that they don't get to see or interact with their grandaughter as much as they'd like (there have been gaps of well over a month and they live 10mins down the road, but then the other will say there have been periods of regular visits too). Now mum is so terrified that she will upset SIL, she behaves stiffly around her and is too scared to interact with grandaughter for fear of upsetting SIL. More often than not, she returns home crying because grandaughter has shied away from her when she went in for a cuddle or because of something SIL has said or done. On the other hand, SIL and bro say that its because of this that they are so annoyed. That its becoming ridiculous that she's upset about something almost every time she visits. To make things worse, my bro and parents all work closely together. This makes bro reluctant to see them socially because he sees them all day. AND my dad is making things worse by telling anyone and everyone at work who'll listen, how abnormal and socially inept SIL is because she doesn't conform to what he views as normal! Of course, this then gets back to bro, who then goes home and tells SIL. It's truly breaking my heart.

The latest thing is that dad casually asked bro what they were going to do with grandaughter when SIL goes into labour and bro says that SIL's parents volunteered months before so they're doing it, and that a friend from up the road was on standby just in case, so thanks for offering but they're alright. Of course this upsets parents as they see that as them preferring a friend over grandparents to do the babysitting. Trouble is, granddaughter is two and a half and my parents have NEVER spent ANY time alone with her. They've never babysat and certainly never had her overnight. Bro and SIL also go over to her parents more (not much more, but more) than they see my parents so that is also being counted by my parents as a shun. Anyway, after being told about the babysitting thing when SIL goes into labour, mum decided to have a chat with bro about it. Apparently she is honest with him and tells him that they're upset that they weren't considered, especially over a mate up the road. She then makes the ultimate mistake by saying 'We'd hate to think this is you', of course implying then that it must all be SIL. Naturally bro is offended by this, goes home and tells SIL. Mum in the meantime goes home and gets over it reasonably quickly, thinking she's at least told him how she feels. Forward a couple of days and mum has a visit with them. SIL shuts herself away upstairs for the duration of the visit and won't come down. She has an essay to write and is still annoyed about what was said the other day. Mum returns home after the visit with bro and granddaughter and is hysterical. I get the hysterical phonecall when I have visitors, mum hangs up. Dad phones and says I have to call her because she's run off. I talk to mum whose taken it out on my other brother (twin of bro 1) who then storms off to sort things out (I find out later). I decide after this conversation to call bro and SIL to have a civil and calm conversation about how this was all getting out of hand and that they should all sit down in a room together to talk about how they all feel and try and sort something out or at least try to come to some agreement for the sake of the family relationship and the grandkids. However, by the time I get to the bit about how mum is borderline a nervous breakdown and the fact that she thinks SIL hates her is breaking her heart (I'm talking to my bro at the time), SIL (who apparently was listening in on speakerphone) went ballistic. So loud in fact that I couldn't understand much of what was said because it distorted in my ear (something along the lines of well I will hate her if she carries on with this pathetic/ridiculous behaviour). I then try and tell them that I'm just trying to have a calm and adult conversation about how we can resolve things and begin having a good conversation with bro (despite hisses and jibes in the background) when twin of bro knocks at their door. Obviously I can hear this. SIL opens the door as bro is talking to me, I hear other bro say something (a few words) then SIL goes uber mental at him screaming that she doesn't need this at 32 wks of pregnancy or something along those lines. Then apparently he just turns around and walks away at which point I'm hung up on so bro can try to sort things out. I later find out that this is all in front of granddaughter. So basically its now got to the point where things seem irreparable and I know it sounds awful but I've been the 'negotiator' for years now and I have my own family to worry about (hubby and one year old son). I so badly want to tell them all that I'm out and they can deal with it on their own, but the truth is, they're all so stubborn, they just won't. It'll just keep on escalating until someone has a breakdown or they move as far away from us all as possible. I'm really in a conundrum. I called bro and SIL up afterwards to see if everyone was okay and for the very first time, heard my bro break down crying before he hung up on me. He said he couldn't handle the stress. I quite understand too because I don't feel like I'm far behind. I'm already on pills for bi-polar while they try and understand my own mental issues and so is twin bro. He won't talk to anyone now. What on earth do I do?

nothing, let them sort it out, mil's and dils allways have these issues and they have to get over it themselves. its ur bro who should be mediating and sorting it out and not passing on info to his wife that he will know will upset her when she is heavily pregnant.

nothing. they're adults so let them sort it out.

everyone getting involved will just whip it up into a frenzy.

esp as his siblongs are naturally going to take your mum's side.

she has to take responsibility here for herself and her own relationship with her son.

she could do many things to make this better instead of acting like a baby.

siblings.

I know but it's so hard when your mother is calling you, so hysterical she can barely talk. It's so upsetting.

she needs to pull herself together. you're enabling her hysteria.

tell her to act like an adult and acting this way is not helping anything and if she is serious about having a relationship with her granddaughter then she should be the bigger and elder person and set an example by going to dil and saying sorry can we start again, coz if she dont its her thats gonna loose out.

you can sympathise but then put a positive spin, batting the ball back to her-

eg 'so, i hope you feel better after talking about it to me, what do you think you can do to help make this better?' etc

And I totally see both sides to their argument too. I think she is scared of SIL! And to be honest, after what I heard today, I think I am too now!!

Send them all to family counselling and stop trying to do it yourself.

Your brother is not helping the issue by relaying everything your mother says to him back to his wife. I can see that he doesn't want to have secrets from her but he is fuelling the fires.

Your father is equally fuelling your mother's fire.

If you want to do something without the aid of an external party, then I would suggest this - JUST the women get together, have a "talking spoon" or other object and the ONLY person who can speak is the one holding the talking object (although you need a referee for this, might have to be you).
Allow each person a few minutes to talk CALMLY about the situation as they see/feel it. They are only allowed to:
talk about their OWN feelings, no attributing stuff to other people (this just leads to further bad feeling)
talk without abusing anyone else in ANY WAY
talk calmly without shouting

Your mother needs to apologise for any upsets due to her inadequate language skills. Your SIL needs to accept this.

Attributing feelings to others, e.g. "I know she hates me" is UTTERLY counterproductive. Although it can be said thus "I feel like she doesn't like me at all because..."

I am only suggesting this because your entire family may refuse to countenance going "outside the family" to deal with it - but you need to have your say with the spoon as well, not just be the referee.

And when the women have reached some sort of compromise/agreement, THEN you might need to involve the men. But frankly, I think with them you'd be better telling them to STOP fuelling the feud, they're NOT HELPING. The problem is very clearly between your mum and your SIL - the men would, IMO, be counterproductive in the Summit Meeting you need to have.

Failing all of the above, tell ALL of them that you don't want to hear about it until they ALL stop behaving like spoilt brats and start talking to each other like civilised adults.

you need to back off and encourage them to take some time to reflect on how to make things better. then let them get on with it.

if they fuck it up, they fuck it up. not your fault.

thumbwitch, I have suggested almost exactly what you've said so I'm quite glad I'm not the only one who'd think this is a good idea. However, when I did this I was basically told by both sides that it wouldn't work. I got a little ray of hope when bro agreed that it might be the only option in our conversation today but it would have to be once new baby is born and all that hard bit of new baby childcare was over (I think it will be conveniently forgotten about). I totally agree that its all being whipped up into a frenzy and after getting off the phone, realised that in trying to help I was probably doing more damage. This is why I've decided to tell them all that I just don't want to be involved anymore. Trouble is, I've done this before and been told by mum that if she can't talk to her own daughter, who can she talk to?

blinks, you're right I know. So why is it so hard?? I'm finding myself lying awake all night worrying about all of them!

They are all behaving rather childishly. Your mum doesn't want to just talk to you, she wants to bitch to you about the situation and have you sympathise and agree with her that your SIL is a PITA. This is not appropriate under the circumstances.
But while your mum and SIL are definitely the main protagonists here, I cannot for the life of me see why your brother is stirring the shit-pot more, not really. Nor your Dad! Are they all so stupid that they cannot see how much worse they're making the situation?

Take several steps back and tell them all that you are in no fit state yourself to be trouble by their childish spats - and tell your Mum that it would be nice if she put YOUR health ahead of her grievances for once.

your mum is being very silly and manipulative. your loyalty is split and she's being destructive by dragging you into it.

sounds like more people need to stand up to her. tell her you will talk to her when she's had time to reflect on it and can think rationally.

then when she tries to discuss it tell her you'll listen to any ideas she has to make it better but otherwise would prefer to talk about something else.

Just had a thought - she can talk to your Dad - you can't be the only person who has to listen to her. But if you consistently keep the same message when you talk to her, she will soon learn:
"Mum, I don't want to talk about it until you are prepared to do something positive about it."

Keep saying that, over and over, hanging up if necessary after a few repeats.

i agree with others that say you need to keep out of it. i think that perhaps you need to concentrate on your relation ship with your brother, so he knows he still has a confidant and some support.

i do have to say that your brother needs to shut his fucking mouth everytime someone says something about his wife - running back and telling her. either he sorts his shit out or keeps his gob shut. he's definatley part of the problem.

i think the only resolution will come if your mother just lets them go. if she wants to see her grandaughter, she should ask if she can have her a regular time each week, alone.

Your poor poor SIL your mother sounds like a childish bully and you're all backing her up. Not surprised if she posts on here abstract gets told to cit you all out and I wouldnt blame her at all. Can you not see her side at all ?

I am sorry, but your family sound bonkers. I feel really sorry for your SIL to have married into this.

Your mother seems like a hysterical and childish drama queen. Your father is rubbishing his daughter in law in his work place. (Pretty tough for the employees to listen to, I will imagine) Your brother hears this bitching and brings it back to his poor wife. The woman can do no right. And now she knows you are involved too.

If the lot of you dont pull yourself together, I wouldnt be surprised if she leaves your brother. (This is why you worry so much, right? I totally understand)

But you should step out. You should tell her you dont agree with how your family is behaving, and will try to back her up as much as you can. But other than that, you want to be neutral.

When your mother calls, tell her to call you back when she has calmed down. Tell her to be adult. Tell your brother not to repeat everything his father says about his wife. Tell him to stand up to his father and say "Please dont speak badly about my wife in my place of work".

What a toxic situation.

Good post QS, it's the DIL I feel sorry for here.

ALthough I can understand how these things escalate and how upset your mum is, I do feel really sorry for your SIL here. Firstly - you say 'things like why are you still breastfeeding' and explain them away as 'not meant unkindly'. Have a look at some of the threads on MILs here to see how this impacts on new mums, its very upsetting when you are on the receiving end, and absolutely it is damaging.

MIL and DIL relationships are famously prone to tension - and I think in those situations it's up to the MIL, who has the most experience, to be kind and caring. You seem overly protective (naturally I do understand that) of your mum - she has clearly upset your SIL very deeply and then creates drama every time she goes round there. God, that would drive me MAD! She is the hysterical one, she needs to apologise seriously. I can't see here, what the hell your SIl has done.

Now - final and most serious point - you are calling your SIL when she is 32 weeks pregnant to try and get her to solve a family row - that is UNACCEPTABLE. Leave this poor woman alone - your mum and and dad are completely out of order in kicking up a fuss about bloody baby sitting duties.

I can just imagine the thread your SIL would write on here - there she is, heavily pregnant and your dad/ mum are coming round leaning on your brother over babysitting issues which are absolutely not worth arguing about and are up to them as parents. It is really childish, selfish and upsetting.

I honestly think that the way to resolve this would be to sit with your mum and tell her to chill out, back off and calm down. Of course they dont want to deal with it in the first few months of having a baby - why the hell should they, they didnt start this row.

Your poor brother, reduced to tears - your mum and dad are in the wrong here and your job as pacifier should be to tell them that - then tell them to write a calm letter apologising and explaining that in 6 months you can all sit down and talk properly.

Why is everyone chasing up the heavily pg dil to sort things out when it seems to be the mum who is causing most of it?
Every time your mum phones you in hysterics saying she is having a nervous breakdown tell her that this drama queen behaviour is what is causing the problems and that nothing will be resolved until she calms down and acts like a grown up!
I feel so sorry for your dil. She has been suffering from your mums bad behaviour for years but still allows access to visit the grand daughter at least once a month only for iyour mums behaviour to get worse. When she snaps and says that's enough (but is still kind enough to allow your mum to visit without her present) everyone else in the family piles in and starts hounding the dil to sort things out!
I think you all need to have a good think about your mums behaviour and realise how unfair you have been.
If I were you I would tell your sil that you are sorry for interfering, you realise you over stepped the mark there. That you understand why she is upset with your mum and you are there for her and your brother if they need you.
Then stay out of it!

Your family sounds insane.

Calling SIL when she is pg to sort out a problem that spans years is unacceptable. She should be enjoying the end of her pg and getting ready for the new arrival. What prompted you to call now? I would be livid too. As a woman with a child surely you realise that stressful situations are even more so when pg? I don't understand why you called her rather than your mum as your post suggests that she has instigated all of the unreasonable behaviour. In your SIL's shoes, I'd feel ganged up on and wanting to run away with my husband and children.

Your mum sounds like a nightmare and your SIL must have the patience of a saint to put up with her for so long, never mind tolerate her coming round. As her daughter, you may find her "excuses" acceptable ("didn't mean any harm" , different language) but in the real world, they don't wash.

I feel sorry for your BIL too but he shouldn't tell his wife every time that she is criticized- she knows that your parents don't like her. I'm surprised that he still works with your parents given that they are so unfairly critical.

I think that your family should give BIL and his family space. If your parents want to have a relationship with SIL and DN, they need to apologize for their unreasonable behaviour and change. As one of their children, you are in a string position to explain why they are out of order.