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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Stuck in the middle of an impossible family row... at a loss as to what to do.

56 replies

Haleana · 24/02/2011 02:26

Hi,

This is a long story so I'll try to be concise. My brother and sister-in-law have a two-year old daughter and another babe on the way within the next few weeks. The relationship between my mum and SIL has always been strained. They have been together since their early teens (now mid 20s) and moved in together in their mid to late teens. According to them mum confronted them in a shop (random I know) and basically accused SIL of taking away her boy. I'd like to point out at this point that mum is Filipino and doesn't always get across what she means to say very well. She also has a tendency to say the wrong thing a LOT of the time and then wonder why she's upset someone.

Fast forward a few years and bro and SIL are married. Then, inevitably, fall pregnant and have my parent's first grandchild. SIL is naturally a very private and independant person, she's not at all cuddly but is pretty down-to-earth but has a temper and seems to be very stubborn at times (from what I've experienced). There were the usual gripes that come with a new baby/grandchild, between the MIL and my SIL. Typical like, the loaded question of whether SIL was STILL breastfeeding her after so long, perceived criticism over certain aspects of their parenting skills etc, etc. Now I can quite believe that things were said but I'm very certain none of them were meant to harm. Trouble is, my niece is now two and a half and the relationship between them has become so difficult, I'm not sure it's going to last much longer. SIL has told me that her relationship with my mum is dead (her words) and that nothing would salvage it now. My parents are saying that SIL is the reason that they don't get to see or interact with their grandaughter as much as they'd like (there have been gaps of well over a month and they live 10mins down the road, but then the other will say there have been periods of regular visits too). Now mum is so terrified that she will upset SIL, she behaves stiffly around her and is too scared to interact with grandaughter for fear of upsetting SIL. More often than not, she returns home crying because grandaughter has shied away from her when she went in for a cuddle or because of something SIL has said or done. On the other hand, SIL and bro say that its because of this that they are so annoyed. That its becoming ridiculous that she's upset about something almost every time she visits. To make things worse, my bro and parents all work closely together. This makes bro reluctant to see them socially because he sees them all day. AND my dad is making things worse by telling anyone and everyone at work who'll listen, how abnormal and socially inept SIL is because she doesn't conform to what he views as normal! Of course, this then gets back to bro, who then goes home and tells SIL. It's truly breaking my heart.

The latest thing is that dad casually asked bro what they were going to do with grandaughter when SIL goes into labour and bro says that SIL's parents volunteered months before so they're doing it, and that a friend from up the road was on standby just in case, so thanks for offering but they're alright. Of course this upsets parents as they see that as them preferring a friend over grandparents to do the babysitting. Trouble is, granddaughter is two and a half and my parents have NEVER spent ANY time alone with her. They've never babysat and certainly never had her overnight. Bro and SIL also go over to her parents more (not much more, but more) than they see my parents so that is also being counted by my parents as a shun. Anyway, after being told about the babysitting thing when SIL goes into labour, mum decided to have a chat with bro about it. Apparently she is honest with him and tells him that they're upset that they weren't considered, especially over a mate up the road. She then makes the ultimate mistake by saying 'We'd hate to think this is you', of course implying then that it must all be SIL. Naturally bro is offended by this, goes home and tells SIL. Mum in the meantime goes home and gets over it reasonably quickly, thinking she's at least told him how she feels. Forward a couple of days and mum has a visit with them. SIL shuts herself away upstairs for the duration of the visit and won't come down. She has an essay to write and is still annoyed about what was said the other day. Mum returns home after the visit with bro and granddaughter and is hysterical. I get the hysterical phonecall when I have visitors, mum hangs up. Dad phones and says I have to call her because she's run off. I talk to mum whose taken it out on my other brother (twin of bro 1) who then storms off to sort things out (I find out later). I decide after this conversation to call bro and SIL to have a civil and calm conversation about how this was all getting out of hand and that they should all sit down in a room together to talk about how they all feel and try and sort something out or at least try to come to some agreement for the sake of the family relationship and the grandkids. However, by the time I get to the bit about how mum is borderline a nervous breakdown and the fact that she thinks SIL hates her is breaking her heart (I'm talking to my bro at the time), SIL (who apparently was listening in on speakerphone) went ballistic. So loud in fact that I couldn't understand much of what was said because it distorted in my ear (something along the lines of well I will hate her if she carries on with this pathetic/ridiculous behaviour). I then try and tell them that I'm just trying to have a calm and adult conversation about how we can resolve things and begin having a good conversation with bro (despite hisses and jibes in the background) when twin of bro knocks at their door. Obviously I can hear this. SIL opens the door as bro is talking to me, I hear other bro say something (a few words) then SIL goes uber mental at him screaming that she doesn't need this at 32 wks of pregnancy or something along those lines. Then apparently he just turns around and walks away at which point I'm hung up on so bro can try to sort things out. I later find out that this is all in front of granddaughter. So basically its now got to the point where things seem irreparable and I know it sounds awful but I've been the 'negotiator' for years now and I have my own family to worry about (hubby and one year old son). I so badly want to tell them all that I'm out and they can deal with it on their own, but the truth is, they're all so stubborn, they just won't. It'll just keep on escalating until someone has a breakdown or they move as far away from us all as possible. I'm really in a conundrum. I called bro and SIL up afterwards to see if everyone was okay and for the very first time, heard my bro break down crying before he hung up on me. He said he couldn't handle the stress. I quite understand too because I don't feel like I'm far behind. I'm already on pills for bi-polar while they try and understand my own mental issues and so is twin bro. He won't talk to anyone now. What on earth do I do?

OP posts:
crazygracieuk · 24/02/2011 09:14

The last sentence should be

As one of their children, you are in a STRONG position to explain why they are out of order and should think about BIL and his wife's feelings before selfishly (and childlishly) prioritising their own. Can they really not work out why SIL would not allow them to babysit?

CameronCook · 24/02/2011 09:20

I agree with the keep out of it tbh - especially as SIL is heavily pregnant - she really needs calm at the mo, not fighting.

Although if and when the time is right for a sit down and chat then thumbwitch has made some good suggestions as to how to go about it.

waterrat · 24/02/2011 09:33

I think what would help now - would be if you meet with your parents, explain that their behaviour about the babysitting issue was completely out of order, and, if you want to sugar the pill say - look, SIL is pregnant, this is a hard time for her - you have a chance to be the bigger people and try to resolve this.

get your mum to write (not call) with an apology - completely unreservedly ie. no 'but you did this or that'.Just saying sorry for interfering about their babysitting arrangements at a time when she has a lot on her mind. Your parents should say clearly that in a few months, when the baby is settled they would like to try and resolve things and start afresh.

But they have caused this drama and unfortunatly the only path now is for them to completely back off.

and one other thing - you need to tell your parents to STOP bad mouthing their DIL to their son. just stop. completely. Unacceptable - and they will end up losing him.

caramelwaffle · 24/02/2011 09:36

here is an idea: get your husband to contact ALL of the people involved. He will tell them that they are NOT to contact you for AT LEAST three weeks - by phone, in person or other means. He is afraid for your health.
YOU will NOT contact them at all.

When they inevitably ask your husband the reason, he will tell them "all of this nonsense is making my wife I'll. It is unacceptable....and grow up etc"

After three weeks resume contact. If nothing has changed, extend for another three weeks.

It may make them consider their behaviour.

Screen all calls/contact and KEEP HEALTHY.

dignified · 24/02/2011 09:39

Ive been in an almost exact situation , the hysterical mil who aparently doesnt mean any harm , the H who would relay every snipe back to me and still expect me to spend time with them , the family who felt i should put up and shut up because thats " just her way ".

Your sil is entitled to enjoy her pregnancy without this sort of hassle , its not something shes going to forget about.I think you need to apologise to your sil for your comment about trying to resolve things . What is there really for your sil to resolve ?

Is she really expected to put up with your mums comments and are your parents really that arrogant that they think it ok to snipe about her and that she should still want to be in their company ? Theyve made it quite clear they dont like her .

Your brother needs to grow a pair and stop relaying everything back to his wife. Thats deeply upsetting and not ok behaviour. Why is he not stating firmly that his wife is not to be talked about in this way ? Where is his respect for your sil when he is allowing his family to treat her this way ?

He is a major part of the problem and so is your mum. A grown woman indulging in hysterics sounds to me like severe manipulation. If this was one of my daughters id be urging her to leave this toxic situation.

QuintessentialShadows · 24/02/2011 09:50

Your SILS situation really resonates with me. This is how the dynamics are between me, dh and my own mil, every time we go to see them for holidays, or every time she has come to visit. I count my blessings she lives in a different country from us. And due to her behavior, it is years between we visit. I just cannot take seeing her more regularly. I have basically put my foot down. I say to my dh, "you are welcome to take the kids and go visit her, but it will be without me". I am just not taking the behavior. She has not seen her grandchildren for 3 years. If she had behaved differently towards me, and us, it would have been a totally different situation.

You might risk that your brother decides his loyalties re with his wife and kids, and chose to cut you all out of his life. Providing he can find another job. Poor sod, he really is tied down, isnt he. Sad

BlingLoving · 24/02/2011 09:51

I agree with everyone here that your mother is inflaming this situation and that your SIL needs a break. As you have sympathy for your mother, and want to help, then I think you are uniquely positioned to be able to say to her gently but firmly that her behaviour is unacceptable and while you understand that she has not meant any harm, she has nonetheless caused some. As she knows you are sympathetic and you do understand her motivations, she may actually listen to you - certainly, more so than to either of your brothers or your SIL.

I'd also be quietly but firmly telling your brother to buck up and stop enabling this behaviour at the office from your father.

And finally, if you still want to help, I'd drop a small thoughtful gift round at SIL - some flowers, some lovely bath soap or something similar - with a note from you saying you totally understand how hard things are for her and that you are trying to make your mother understand that and that you apologise for any inadvertant pain and additional hurt you've caused her.

Do not ask her to solve the problem.

Incidentally, at first, even though my BIL doesn't have a sister, I wondered if you were my Sister's SIL. Because some of the behaviour of your Mother and brother is very similar to her MIL and DH. I wish that her DH DID have a sensible sibling who could make him and her understand how unacceptable some of the behaviour is.

Finally - on comments like the breast feeding - tell your mother, sharply if necessary, to shut up. It's your SIL and brother's baby and they decide how to feed him.

dignified · 24/02/2011 10:19

However, by the time I get to the bit about how mum is borderline a nervous breakdown and the fact that she thinks SIL hates her is breaking her heart (I'm talking to my bro at the time), SIL (who apparently was listening in on speakerphone) went ballistic.

Im not surprised she went balistic. At 36 weeks pregnant she doesnt need this drama from your mum.
Exagerated terms like nervous breakdown , broken heart ect wont help and i wonder why you felt it ok to try to guilt them in this way . Fwiw i wouldnt want someone whos on the verge of a nervous breakdown around my child .

Ineedacleaneriamalazyslattern · 24/02/2011 10:21

A lot of that OP could have been written about our family but I am the DIL.
I am positive that My SIL and MIL see me as the big bad wolf in all of this because they never had half of these problems when DH and his ex were together (they did but DH just never managed to get through to her the way he does now)and SIL (her dd) has the same problems with her but doesn't stand up to her whereas DH does tell her when she is behaving badly.
She also uses emotional blackmail, tears and hysteria to try and get others on her side.

From the perspective of your SIL I am totally not surprised she has cracked under the strain at 32 weeks pregnant I know exacly how she feels.

Your mother seems to be the probelm here too and you are all enabling that by pampering her hysetria and even thinking SIL has got anything to sort out here.
Your parents live 10 minutes away they cannot be martyrs to this oooh we never see DGC they have a responsibility to nurture that relationship too not visit once a month and complain about it.

Oh and my parents are travelling 125 miles in the summer to babysit my dc's and MIL lives in the same city but we are always available to her and do try and go and see her when we can but she never bothers for weeks on end my dad sees Dc's more than she does because he makes the effort to.

femalevictormeldrew · 24/02/2011 10:29

If your mother wants to rebuild the relationship (if it is not gone beyond that) she needs to back off. She really needs to give your SIL some space and if your SIL sees that she is not going to be terrorised she may soften a little. This is the only way your SIL is going to regain any bit of trust in her. And your brother needs to grow a pair of balls and tell your father to stop bad mouthing his wife.

I do feel for you in this situation, and understand that you feel for your mother. But none of this is helping anyone, especially pregnant SIL. The more she is hounded the more she will pull away. For your own sake, keep out of it. I know you mey feel that some of the replies are harsh, but they are true. Stand back and let them at it, because you will get caught in the crossfire.

craftynclothy · 24/02/2011 10:33

Agree with what everyone else has been saying.

I'm just wondering if you are a bit dismissive with SIL. I know BIL is like this with us (telling us to ignore MIL cos it's how she is and they just ignore her even though she upsets them too). Do you ever say things like "Oh just ignore her about the breastfeeding, she doesn't mean to upset you" because as someone who isn't really in the family iykwim it can easily feel like the family are ganging up on you and don't care about your feelings. It's a bit like saying "We don't want MIL to be upset but we don't mind you being upset".

Definitely agree with the poster who suggested popping round with a gift and apologising.

I think you've had some really good ideas about acknowledging your mum's feelings without indulging them.

coppertop · 24/02/2011 10:43

Sorry but I agree with everyone else that your mum's drama queen tendencies are being indulged and excused far too much.

You say that the original "taking away my boy" incident was just a mix-up over language etc but your brother was actually there. Presumably he is familiar enough with your mum's language and ways to understand what she said and meant?

And coming home crying because a 2yr-old was wary of her??!

The bad-mouthing of SIL needs to stop. The poor woman can't win whatever she does.

I agree too that you should ask everyone for a break from these calls. It's not fair on you to be dragged in like this, especially when your own health is at risk. You sound like a really nice person and I suspect that people are taking advantage of that.

ninipops · 24/02/2011 10:44

I was headed down this road with my IL's, slight difference in that my DH is an only child and IL's would never dream of airing dirty laundry in public - they are too concerned about appearances. The only thing that worked for us was mediation.

Well I say mediation - my DH and I saw the mediator and she gave us tips on how to try to improve communication which was basically at the root of the problem. IL's would never speak about any problems - never. Things have improved somewhat but will never be what you might call rosey.

Basically my MIL never took any responsibility for anything that happened so I can't trust her not to behave similarly in the future but we have a civil relationship and they see DD more than they did before and have even offered to babysit on a number of occasions.

I think you need to withdraw from the situation, explain to your mum that she can speak to you but not to bitch about your SIL, find the name of a good counselor/mediator and leave them to it.

2rebecca · 24/02/2011 10:46

I agree that for the sake of a long term relationship with her son and his family she needs to back off now. She does sound like a drama queen who wants everything to be about her. Children aren't generally big on being cuddled, that isn't something to cry about. If she's invited round she should play with her grandkids and be polite and pleasant. If SIL is busy in her bedroom then she shouldn't moan about it.
Your mum neesds to accept she maybe won't have the sort of relationship with her son's kids that she would like at the moment and concentrate on other things in he life, not talk about broken hearts and nervous breakdowns. No one can cause someone else to have a "nervous breakdown" (which isn't a medical diagnosis anyway). We choose ourselves how we respond to situations. Your mum needs to choose to chill a bit and take things gradually.
I think you should be backing out of it for now and giving them a few weeks to calm down.
It sounds as though you all live too close to each other.

thumbwitch · 24/02/2011 10:48

OP - how do YOU get on with your SIL normally? Is the relationship between you usually fine or rather strained? Just asking - wondering whether or not your SIL does view you as being "against her", or taking your mother's side all the time.

muminthemiddle · 24/02/2011 10:50

I agree with what has been said.

If I were you I would send a text/card saying you are sorry if you have upset sil and wishing her all the best for the future birth of her new baby.

Do not interfere again!!!!!!

Tbh I think your family sound very annoying and domineering. I sympathise fully with your poor pregnant sil and her dh, how stressful it must be to have a mil and fil like that. Then you and your other brother step into the mix (obviously seeing things from your mothers point of view)and try and tell your sil how unreasonable she is being.

It is not your business or your mothers/fathers who looks after the grandaughter when sil is in labour. Are you really surprised that sil and brother prefer to leave their daughter with a trusted friend over youyr somewhat "crazy" mother who regularly is nasty about sil????
As an outsider I can tell you I am not surprised.

I have in laws similar to your family and without meaning to sound rude I grew sick and tired of their picking and chooosing which babysitting jobs they would like. ie never once helping out when I was in desperate need, this included needing someone to watch my 3 when dh was seriuosly ill in hospital and I wanted to get to the hospital asap. Oh but then fronting up when it suited them (even when asked not to due to work commitments etc)

If you want my advise I would switch off your phone when your mother rings. Otherwise if you are not careful you will end up loosing your brother and sil and their children.

perfumedlife · 24/02/2011 11:09

Totally agree with QS

Did you really, deep down believe that phoning your brother about this was going to resolve the situation? Isn't it a bit much to put it on him to pass on to sil, that this was all blowing out of proportion? It's like calling someone and telling them to calm down, it doesn't work, it's passive agressive, it's condescending.

I think you should apologise to your sil, send some flowers and tell your mum to back right off, if she doesn't want a pre term grandchild born right now.

God, families can be so bloody entitled.

sayithowitis · 24/02/2011 12:54

It is not your job to be the negotiator.
Your mother needs to learn tact. And if she can't, then she needs to learn to keep her opinions to herself.
You need to stop making excuses for your mother. You may be certain that her comments are not intended t cause hurt to your SIL, but, tbh, IME I have found that people often use the 'It's the way I am'/ 'I don't have full command of the language'/'I am just being honest about this' etc as a cover for ' I am being bloody rude and unpleasant about you and I know full well what I am doing/saying is causing you hurt, but I will do it anyway because I have a convenient excuse to use in case any one pulls me up on it'.
I cannot believe that your whole family is ganging up on your SIL at a time when she should be taking it a bit easy, not having to deal with extra stress in her life.

So she has a 'temper' and can be stubborn. So would I if I had to deal with an entire family who are treating me as though I was the cause of all the heartache in the world.

Maybe your family ie: parents, you, twin brother, should be sitting down and seriously asking yourselves why SIL feels she has to hide away from your parents when they call, why any of you are expecting her to do the work in sorting out the mess that the rest of you have created and what you are all going to do to try to put right the wrongs that you have all visited upon her and your brother.

And just so we are clear, yes, I am saying that you have all helped to create this mess. If your children acted in this way surely you would want to teach them how to be better? Loving someone isn't about allowing them to do exactly as they want. It's about showing them how to act and behave in such a way that others love them too. And that goes for adults as much as for children.

otisdriftwood · 24/02/2011 13:15

I agree with what everyone has said...no wonder your SIL is stressed.

Your mum sounds very dramatic and attention seeking...if you are not careful and get too involved you could end up losing your brother and his dc's.

I know that I could not put up with dramatic scenes everytime my PIL visited, especially being heavily pregnant.

Bear in mind alot of nasty people use the excuse that they 'mean well' or 'she doesn't mean any harm'

QuintessentialShadows · 24/02/2011 13:20

I am a bit concerned that the OP is not back to her thread.

OP, I am also aware that you have probably got lots of posts to read, and not all of this is pleasant reading.It seems nobody is backing you and your family up, nor taking a stance against your SIL. Cant be nice to read that you are all in the wrong in the way you behave towards your sil.

I would like to know what you are thinking about all this now, and if this thread is helpful in any way.

crazygracieuk · 24/02/2011 14:50

I was expecting to see an update from op saying that sil wasn't the innocent party that her post suggested and she had said or done things too.

AuntyLouLou · 24/02/2011 14:58

Hi OP,

Your Mother is bang out of order here. She's making everything about her and using emotional blackmail to pull your heart strings.

She is manipulating you into doing what she wants but playing the victim and getting hysterical. You need to back out of the situation.

SIL is the one having the baby. It's her business who minds DD1 while she's in labour. She has arranged a friend who is familiar with DD1 and therefore that is what is in the best interests of DD1.

Your Mother is feeling hurt but she needs to learn it's not about her ego. Her behaviour is attention seeking and bordering on toxic.

Even how she uses and manipulates you when she doesn't get her own way with that awful statement 'if I can't tell my daughter who can I tell?'

Eh, she can tell her friends or a counsellor. It's not your responsibility to be her human puppet.

The poor SIL must feel under seige by the whole lot of you. Everyone needs to back off and stop enabling your Mothers dramatics.

HecateQueenOfWitches · 24/02/2011 15:17

Stay out of it.

I don't mean to be rude, but your mother sounds a nightmare and actually pretty much to blame for this whole situation.

diddl · 24/02/2011 15:20

"Typical like, the loaded question of whether SIL was STILL breastfeeding her after so long, perceived criticism over certain aspects of their parenting skills etc, etc. Now I can quite believe that things were said but I'm very certain none of them were meant to harm. "

What has SILs b/feeding got to do with your parents?

And was her parenting criticised?

If so, not surprised she´s not interested in them-well, tbh, critcising her bfeeding would be enough.

And why is it DILs fault that they don´t have a relationship with their GD?

Suchffun · 24/02/2011 15:31

I'd send SIL a bunch of flowers and a card saying something like 'I know its all been up and down lately and I wanted to say that you are the best thing that ever happened to my brother. I realise my mother's behaviour is up to her and I can't really affect it, so I'm going to do my very best to keep out of her issues from now on. You have my support and I love you to bits'
Or something like that?

And I'd try the broken record with your mum 'Mum, I love you, but I can't help you with your relationship with SIL'

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