What should I do? very long

[enthusia]

I have been with my husband for 15 years, we met at school and now have two young children.

About 9 months ago my husband said he just didn't feel it anymore. This was news to me as we have always been incredibly close.

6 years ago my parents ran into financial difficulties, we helped them out but this left us with debts.

My husband loves work and always wants to be the best at what he does. This means he works 6 days a week from 7-7.

My parents started working with me in my business to help pay the debt in terms of time rather than money. However this meant they saw more of the children than my husband did.

When my husband came out and told me he was unhappy and some of the reasons I put our house on the market, to clear the debt, and stopped my parents working with me.

My husband has said that I am perfect and that none of this is my fault but that he is a stranger in his own home and to pay the debt he needs to work so hard.

However this has been going on for a while now and I know that my husband could get a job being paid more doing less hours but he doesn't want to as it is a lesser rank, i can understand this but my parents are not his reason to work then.

He demonises my parents as if they wanted this, when actually they have been left in a less than nice situation which they are making better all by themselves. They haven't asked for money in 6 years.

My husband says he wants to leave to see if he can be happier elsewhere but our house won't sell so he can't.

I said I couldn't cuddle etc then becuase if it is over I need to deal with it and cuddles etc give me hope. However he constantly wants them and has lovely evenings with me.

We have now started arguing more on his days off and he has started saying nasty things such as he is so bored with me and has been for a year and that today, when I caught him looking at some other women, I noticed that one had caught his eye when I asked him he said she certainly had and that it was none of my business. When I said that hurt me he told me to grow up and stop ruining his day.

I am so confused. When we are together cuddling it feels so right, he pays me compliments and it feels like it is getting bcak to normal. Then it will all go down hill again.

He is not a bad man, he has always been lovely and caring, although has always been a workaholic. He is now miserable at times, andhis mood swings are quite dramatic. He seems to see the kids as an inconvenience at times and flies off the handle very quickly, considering he only sees them one day a week.

When I ask him about us he says it is all over and he wants to move out, but if I withold ccuddles etc he doesn't understand and either pleads or gets irritated with me.

He wants to live in a flat but stay here when he looks after the children and me stay in the flat, he would like us to still be best of friends and to still have movie nights and for me to accompany him to work dos etc. He hasn't told anyone at work and hates anyone knowing about it at all.

What do I do, I am so confused? I love him, I want him, but I keep getting hurt and am getting real mixed messages constantly.

How do I get through this until the house sells?

Anyone been in a similar situation?

well done, enthusia.
Did you make him cook his own dinner as well?

Right, going very well so far. He made me a cup of tea the next morning (something he has rarely done) and left it outside my door.

I am actually really liking having my own space and it is making living together a lot less complicated. Am even thinking of taking the house off the market for a while until the market improves a bit now.

I made dinner on Monday night, he made dinner last night and then next week (after this weeeks dual shopping runs out) we will eat separtely and he will make all his own.

He is also now making his own packed lunch.

He seemed happy Monday but not so last night and this morning. He asked me to come and talk in his bedroom this morning but I said I was fine I was reading. Mind you it is his birthday today. Am still celebrating it tonight as planned but luckily it is all children orientated!

Fingers crossed this continues to go well.

Very pleased to hear it, Enthusia! (the tea, and you enjoying your space, and things seeming to go more smoothly now).

If it makes sense, yes, delay the house sale until you can make more money on it - you're going to need as much as you can get between you to buy two new homes, so might as well.

Keep up the cool attitude too :)

So have your parents repaid their debt to you and your husband? Your OP indicates that there is still money owing and that is one ( the only?) reason you are in debt?

My parents borrowed around £50,000 over the course of a few years. They have managed to pay back about £15,000. But we had about £25,000 of our own during this time because of me not working. We now owe about £50,000 in total. Hence selling the house to release the money.

In the past though my parents sold their pensions to buy us our first house, we did pay them back but they would not except the whole amount. They also gave us more money than we made on a previous house sale, to buy another house when we relocated back to England.

It is all very complicated and although it has put us in a sticky situation financially, it was the right thing to do at the time. My DH knew about the money we were giving them, I never kept him in the dark.

My DH is now getting a bit narky about having to do his own shopping etc, and is asking why I can't do it. He said one time that he still brings the money in so he does his role, therefore I should still do mine of shopping, cooking and cleaning. I was a bit stumped at this one. I get very tongue tied in an argument/discussion and only later think of the right thing to say and then kick myself!

You are separated at his request, so why should you do 'wifely' activities of any sort? He wants to be without you so he should at least start getting used to it. Maybe it will give him a taste of what he will miss when/if he goes.

Do you still want to repair your marriage or are you now thinking about a future without him? If he has to take care of household chores for himself he will probably be at home more - would this be a good or bad thing for you?

Keep us informed.

Absolutely - if he lives on his own, does he seriously expect you to go and do his shopping, cooking, laundry and cleaning? Sod that! So he might as well get used to it now.

You will still be doing most of the household cleaning anyway, no doubt - just not the bedroom . And if he can't manage a bit of food shopping now then he's going to be in real trouble when he lives on his own..

You are still doing your role, you are looking after the children.

He is a grown man who does not need looking after and who wants to leave his wife - therefore his wife does not have to be a wife to him anymore!!

Just how much money did you lend your parents, when this caused you such debts that you need to sell the house?

Did you agree with your husband that instead of repaying the money they should work for you? In real terms, how much money has this "work" paid back?

I think the real problem is that you allowed your own family to get into financial difficulties so that you could help your parents. And your husband is working his arse off, so he can help pay for this. Whereas your parents, who are the real reason for this mess, were seen to spend the days at your and his house, having quality time with the kids, while he was out working.

Meanwhile, you are asking him to go down a step on the career ladder, to earn more money, to repay the debts.

No wonder he is resentful!

When he leaves he will still be paying towards his children AND doing his own shopping/cleaning/washing/hair stroking, so he may as well get used to it now.

The reality of being a grown up is just starting to his him isn't it?

I think your husband feels he has been forced to lend this money out of loyalty to you. I feel for him. Not nice to have all that hanging over your head when you didnt create it.

But I would carry on as you are doing - a marriage is all or nothing. He cant have his cake and eat it!

Quintessentail I know how he feels, we did talk about everything before we did it. My parents worked for me so that we could mmake more money to repay the debt and so they could 'repay' the loan in terms of time. He did not say this was a problem until he said he wasn't happy with us. As soon as he aired his concerns I stopped my parents working for me and put our house on the market to try and make him feel more at home. As in making him work more he could earn more by taking a lesser role but does not want to do that, he wants to carry on up his career ladder (which I can understand) but the money is not the (whole) reason for his working 6 days a week.

I can see his point of view, he hates my parents, we can't see them as a family ever and can't even really talk about them in the evenings. But when we lent them the money 6 years ago they had a house and the idea was always to sell is and we'd get our money back. However the recession and everything else hit, my parents got to point of exchange and the buyer pulled out due to being asked to relocate abroad and in the end the house was repossesed. My parents never asked for that, but that was our safety net gone. In this time my Dad also had a stroke and couldn't work, so couldn't continue to repay the loan we had taken out for them.

It is all a big mess and that is the reason this isn't so cut and dried. I do love my husband, I can see where he is coming from but I can't change what we did (nor can my parents). I have done everything within my power to make things better, and he keeps saying none of this is about me.

I thought marriages were about weathering the storms together too.

I also work to pay off the debt too. We both work full time.

They are my parents and I couldn't see them losing everything when I could do something about it. Especially when they risked so much for us. None of us ever saw how this was going to turn out!

I do feel for him too, but there is nothing I can do now and it feels very unfair, helping people is meant to enrich your life not destroy it!

Oh and I never asked him to go down a step on the career ladder, I would never do that. It was just one of the things he said about why he was never at home (to earn more money) when actually he could be home more and earn more money. I understand his need to progress but my parents have become the scapegoat for everything. A lot of it is due to them, but not everything, but he now demonises them.

Im sorry but I wish you were not reading that article - its such bollocks. That woman should have kicked her husband out - and if your husband is having doubts he also needs to make his mind up. yes you are having tough times, yes financially that money situation with your parents is a nightmare - but why the hell does any of this mean he has to be unkind to you?

Look - do you think he will respect you if you put up with his attitude? I dont think he will - how DARE he say he can look at other women/ doesnt want to be with you - but then expect you to behave like his wife.

You are trying to be reasonable but you need to put your foot down, seriously. Dont be afraid - you need to see how he really feels when push comes to shove.

Tell him that either he commits , you go to counselling and sort things out OR - he has to move out.

It is so bad for you to have a man there telling you he is there on sufferance - you would never treat him like that would you?

I do think the money thing is a nightmare - but the two of you have to be able to work as a team. If he doesn't want to - then I hate that expression you use 'learn to duck the pain'. No - you dont need to learn that, he needs to learn to stop causing you pain - and you need to make very clear what your boundaries are.

You can work at it, but not if he is being disrespectufl.

When I read that article about the woman who ignored her husband trying to leave her, I thought iwas the saddest most depressing thing I had ever read - absolutely lacking in any kind of confidence or dignity. She got him back - at what cost? he could leave any minute, he obviously has no respect for her, and she has none for herself.

take care of yourself. You deserve better than this.

Hi Enthusia

So if you sell the house and repay your debts where will you live? And have you been firm about the housework/shopping etc? If you are also working full time has he ever been appreciative of all you do around the house?

Personally I agree with waterrat in that a decision needs to be made. If the money situation didn't exist would he still want to be with you? If so, suggest counselling and call Relate. If not, ask him to properly separate (I understand that with no money he cannot leave) your lives.

Hi Geordie

If we sell the house for what it is valued at then we would have money left to buy a smaller house for kids, myself and my business and DH would rent close by.

We went to Relate at the beginning, which was crap, so I booked us in with a recommended counsellor. That was much better but DH wouldn't go back and took with him one statement 'Maybe you need time apart' and disregarded the other 59 minutes of counselling which asked about his upbringing and what has led him to this situation. He went to the sessions because I asked him to, but would not go a second time.

The seperate rooms is working in terms of simplifying things but I don't think we will get the full picture until this time next week when DH has shopped, cooked and wasjed his clothes etc for himself.

I really want to give him a taste of what life will be like on his own, he may well like it, I am not sure, but I would like him to experience it.

I can see that you are both under an enormous amount of stress due to the money situation. And whilst in an ideal world, that would not be an excuse for him to be unkind to you, I can also see that stress would affect him in that way. Whilst it was wonderful that your parents were able and willing to help you out, they did get their money back, or at least, an amount they were happy with. You and your DH have taken a massive hit to the point where you are probably going to lose your home, the home that you have both worked so hard for. I imagine that he feels very conflicted about the situation. On the one hand, he is probably resenting your parents for depriving him of something he has worked so hard for, and on the other hand, he realises that ultimately it was not their fault that the circumstances led you to where you are now.

Some of his reactions sound almost as though he is becoming depressed.

He sounds as confused as you are to be honest.

I don't know what to suggest, but I wish you both luck and hope you can come through this together.

He is definitely confused, I did wonder about depression a while a go but I think he is ok. He won't see anyone about it anyway.

I have to say I agree with waterrat about that article. I was very circumspect in what I said in first response - but really, if my DH tried that shit I would be kicking him out the door.
The article is incomplete - she doesn't say enough about how things are now, about what she had to suffer while she "ducked the pain" (i.e. buried her head in the sand) and we don't know whether or not her H will choose to stay with her after all. He might have another "crisis" in a few years' time, will she do the same again?

I think your current gameplan of showing him what living on his own is likely to be like is a good one. However, you are all still providing him with a social life (sort of) - he needs to have his own tv and he needs to spend time on his own in his room, as though he really were a lodger. So he can better experience the loneliness of being alone.

Tell you what, he's pretty lucky you're letting him do that - as I said - I'd have kicked mine out by now if he'd tried this stunt with me.

Hiya Thumb,

I do carry a lot of guilt over my parents though which may have led to this situation. The stress of the moeny may have caused this, or it may have happened anyway (I was always put in last place when it came to work, before this situation and kids etc our time together was regularly cancelled or disrupted because he went to work instead, he always has to been seen as the 'best' at work, where as I always have been there for him no matter what), but I will never know. I do feel for him, I have seen him grow from a boy to a man and we have gone through everything together, I hate seeing him upset and it really does pull at me to make him happy. But I do realise I can't always be the one making him happy and that I deserve to b made happy too.

It is such a confusing situation, one minute all is clear and you are at the top of the rollercoaster looking into the sun and the next you are plummeting into the murky water.

You say you have 'seen him grow from a boy to a man' which suggests you feel a bit maternal towards him.
At least, you have got in to the habit of supporting and looking after him and putting him first.
Has he ever extended you the same courtesy? Has he ever put your interests first or gone out of his way to offer you support when he's unhappy?
I think he;s a selfish, manipulative prick who is enjoying guilt-tripping you and making you run around after him.

Enthusia - it's true what they say - money is the root of all problems with family and loved ones. (ok, paraphrasing somewhat!)
BUT - just remember your H has chosen to demonise your parents. He has chosen to blame it all on them, ignoring the external factors, and apparently the fact that they helped you out when you needed it. He is choosing to resent them for everything - and you are copping the blame by association. Did you at any stage force him to take the money from them? Or force him to lend the money back to them? Or did he agree to both be a borrower and a lender regarding your parents?

Sure, the money is a problem and it's always easy to blame others if you have that option - but you said you have your own debts as well - what about those? Surely those aren't to be laid at your parents' door as well?

I think for your own sake, it would help if you can take your guilt out of the situation. It wasn't just you who created this situation - nor was it entirely your parents - and your H should take his share of the responsibility like a man, not behave like a resentful, jealous teenager over it. IMO.

He hasn't put me or the kids first for a long time, he did used to. I used to come before everything.

Now he wants to impress the people he works with so much and be well thought of that everyone else, me, his parents, sibling etc get put on hold. I know they feel the same, when we are seeing them he is constantly on the phone, even texting during meals. It winds me up no end, and they are very good at not saying anything to 'rock the boat' but sometimes I really wish they would. Otherwise I sound as if it is always me nagging. And now obviuosly it is none of my business when I do say anything, so I generally don't.

Little things like looking at me when we talk about our days and giving me full attention would be lovely. But he will always listen a bit and then start either texting of looking on the internet about something for work. I ask him not to and he knows it is a pet hate of mine but he just replies 'I can do two things at the same time!'.

AAAArrrggggfhhhh

Those things do annoy me but there are plenty of things that used to make me happy too, it just seems as if the annoying habits and behaviours have increased and the lovely fun stuff has all but vanished! He rareley laughs now and I have to remind him to have fun with the kids and not just tell them off. Last year he didn't come on holiday with us, he bailed both times and I went on my own with the kids, he has just missed this week off too and isn't planning on coming on the next one. I can understand not wanting to holiday together, but he should with the kids. He has spoken about it, but hasn't done anything about it. Keeps saying he needs to check with work.

Where is my old DH? Is he tied up in a room in his head somewhere!?

Enthusia - sorry to ask - and I'm sure it must have crossed your mind as well - but is there "someone else"? A work colleague, perhaps? (although not necessarily). It sounds like he's been "gone" from your marriage for a while longer than it seemed at first. :(