Relationship seems to be in a very fragile state - what do we do?

[BranchingOut]

Hi, I have posted a couple of threads before:

November
December

On both those threads I come back near the end to explain the outcome.

We have had a tricky couple of months. The problem in December was sort-of put on hold just before Christmas and we just about managed to buy gifts for nieces/nephews in the family and roast a chicken, but did not put up a tree or any decorations. It was ok, but miserable compared to the last Christmas we had.

Since then we have been functioning together ok - looking after our son (17m), having general conversations. We have tried to get out several times for dinner etc, which have been quite good. Things have got easier as time has passed.

The main problems are:

No physical affection whatsoever. We lie in bed without touching, don't hug etc. He did once ask me to have sex, soon after the row, but I was almost asleep and couldn't really respond quickly enough so he got annoyed. Since then I have suggested sex on several occasions, tried to kiss him once when we walked home from dinner, asked him if he would like hug in bed etc. I have even explicitly suggested that we have sex to kick start our physical relationship again, so there can be no way he misinterpreted me. Each time he has said no. This is over a period of 6 - 8 weeks.

He doesn't seem loving towards me anymore. Just speaks to me in a neutral kind of way. It hurts me when he speaks so lovingly towards our son but not to me.

He is not willing to go to relationship counselling. I have tried several times to suggest it or point out the benefits.

He says that we are no longer compatible because of my 'feminist beliefs' and says that I am somehow 'fighting him' all the time. I do believe in fairness for women and feel quite passionate about women's issues, but it is really not something that I mention on a day-to-day basis. I look after our son and do household laundry, cooking, general organising etc (we have a cleaner), but we each do our own laundry. This is for several reasons, I hate the idea of anyone else touching my underwear etc, I find it hard to keep on top of laundry, plus I am also very fussy about whites/colours/delicates being washed properly. This is how it has worked for years but has somehow become a symbol of 'my issues'. For what it is worth, I have offered to do the laundry if it is that important to him!

He seems to have an ongoing issue with the fact that I am not presently working. I had a senior post before mat leave but was completely refused flexible working and therefore left. He was completely in agreement about this. My work has a seasonal recruitment pattern and I am planning to go back later this year, but I would also like to develop self employment so have been working quite hard at several business ideas etc in the meantime. However, he doesn't really see this as 'real' work. I think he feels that he gets all the downsides of working yet none of the benefits, whereas I am just 'doing what I like'.

Yesterday he questionned how I could accept being suported by him. Yet, for years I maintained separate finances, never, ever asking for money despite him earning 2 - 2.5 times what I earned and contributing to our household expenses in proportion to my income. Just to be clear, although our outgoings are large, we have a very good sum of money in the bank, a great lifestyle and his earnings would put him in the bracket of 'high earners'. Yet he works with lots of people where both partners are high earners and women tend to return to work fairly promptly (albeit often part time, an opportunity which i did not get). So even though his/our income is good, many of his colleagues are living an even better lifestyle.

It is as if the light has gone out and he can't see the good in me any more. He has described me as unpleasant, argumentative etc. and can't seem to see my good qualities.

Separation has been mentioned, but I don't know if we should set a deadline eg. if things are not better by April then separate?How would this work with the house etc, as we would have to sell up.

At the end of the day, I think we still have a future, but I don't want to be with him if he is just staying for the sake of our son.

Forgot to say, I have been trying to book babysitting for an evening out every few weeks, (due to the separate lives/not enough time together issue) but he feels it is too expensive and doesn't want to spend money on it. On the other hand, he doesn't want to ask the only family member who is available, as she already comes to us once a week to look after our son while I try to build my freelance work.

bump

Bumping for you.

You sound so very sad. I'm afraid I'm not a relationship expert at all so hope someone who is will be along to help.
He really does sound like he has left your relationship despite sharing a home with you. He isn't making any effort at all despite being given the opportunity. He is refusing to seek counselling but have you considered counselling for yourself?

That sounds a good idea KnottyLocks. You need to decide if YOU want to remain in a relationship like this.
I have no doubt that things can improve, but it will be difficult if he does not want to make any effort and has very little positive regard for you.

And I expect it feels awful too.

It sounds possible he is having an affair with someone else. I think you need to ask him.

I agree with Val. I think an affair may be a possibility. His feelings may well with someone else, his anger and frustration with you could be because you aren't her and /or because his guilt and perhaps he feels trapped.

He has shut you out emotionally and physically, makes no effort and doesn't appear to want to salvage your relationship. Unfortunately, I have been on the recieving end of this and it turned out to be an affair.

So sorry but think you need to consider this as a strong possibility.

As you may guess I am also in the same position. Obviously hoping that it isn't the same for you.

I think he is resenting supporting you financially.

I must admit I wouldn't like to shoulder the whole financial burden. It must be stressful.

He has only been supporting me financially for six months, up till then I was on maternity pay.

He can't seem to see that this is a temporary situation - I am trying to develop other work and applied for a job only a couple of weeks ago.

I keep typing things then deleting them....

You sound sad and upset.

He sounds mean and unpleasant. I wouldnt be producing any more children with a man who resented supporting me and our child.

His level of disinterest points heavily an affair, in my opnion.

Has he offered any ideas to help the situation at all?

When separation was mentioned, who was it that instigated the idea?

It does seem that only one of you is putting in the effort to mend your relationship. If he wanted to save it, he should at least make some effort.

I have just read your previous threads and this one. Most unhappy about him critisising for the way you considerately give way to others when walking along the pavement.

You say you have money in the bank as a couple. I'm presuming you put some of that in there. So even for the last 6 months, is he really supporting you financially? To me, if you have money in the bank, he does not have a huge "burden" that some people have mentioned, not in the same way the posters who mention the burden have. Do you do the majority of childcare? Does he ever get up in the night with your DC? Who gets up first at the weekends? He critisises you for your "femininst" views, but then seems to resent the fact that you did not return to work very quickly after having your DC, like some of his aquaintences did. So he wants the bits of "feminism" that benefit him, but not the bits he does not like.!

He thinks a babysitter is too expensive, what will he think about childcare if you get the job you applied for? Or will it not concern him because you will be paying for the childcare out of your earnings? What will he think about how much you are able to contribute to the bills with what is left out of your earnings (which will probably be lower than his to start with)? My guess is he will still think he is "supporting" you.

I don't think he will be happy whatever job you do.

You sound lovely, and also very hard working.

Having read your other threads, it does seem as if this has been going on for a while now.
How much longer do you think you can take this? Do you have anywhere you can go for a while to see how you feel with a bit of distance between you?

The other approach would be to put your heart and soul into improving your relationship for a set period of time, regardless of his behaviour, and see if you can make it work. When the deadline arrives you will either be in a happier place, or you will have proved to yourself that it cannot be done. Then you have to have the courage of your convictions and move on.

You certainly cannot carry on like this long term.

I feel really bad typing this OP as I know it will make for difficult reading but it does rather sound to me like there is another woman on the scene too. I remember reading your original thread about the coat and the pavement and I thought it sounded like he was playing away then too.

You sound lovely and I don't think you're doing anything wrong so stop blaming yourself and listening to his criticisms. He sounds mean and horrible.

Maybe you should decide on some non-negotiable conditions i.e. he agrees to counselling, and a deadline by when those conditions need to have been met otherwise you walk.

This has been going on for too long now. I can imagine how miserable you must be feeling in this situation and I really feel for you. His comments about your coat and your appearance seem especially cruel.

THanks for your views.

The question of financial burden:

I have always earned less than him but have contributed proportionately to the relationship. In the last few years before mat leave my income was £40,000 plus. I have also had the situation of having an inheritance and that money was used as part of a building project we did. He has always supported our lifestyle, but on the other hand he has had some expensive hobbies where he has spent many thousands of pounds on equipment, been on trips etc and I have never blinked - we were earning well and this was what he wanted to do. The money we have in the bank now is more than my annual net salary would be and far, far more than the net amount I would have brought in (taking childcare into account) if my return to work had gone ahead as planned.

In terms of looking after our son,
He does look after him for periods of time, which has become easier now that he is not milk dependent. I bf, was getting up in the night at least twice until he was about 13 months and now still get up if he wakes. We use cloth nappies and all his food is homemade, most of which I make. He is a good and loving father but I think part of the problem is that he keeps saying that I don't listen to him regarding our son. In a way this all started when he didn't want to take the car seat for a trip abroad (at 8m)where we would be taking many taxi rides and I think it really shocked him that I just wasn't going to back down about it. We took the car seat in the end, but that was the beginning of the problems. LIkewise now, he sometimes says things like that he feels that our son should be in nursery because that would be 'better for him' than being at home. The other issue is that my professional background gives me some knowledge of child development etc and I think he resents the fact that sometimes I do actually 'know best'. In the first few months he would often say that I was a fantastic mother but he hasn't said that for a long, long time.

I don't think there is anyone else on the scene but I just wish the light would go back on and he would like me again. I could accept a platonic but friendly and respectful marriage.

I think that is the issue though- he is not being respectful of you at the moment.

You cannot change his behaviour, only your reaction to it.

I feel so sad for you though, you obviously desperately want this to work, but he has to play a part or your self esteem will be in tatters.

And do you not deserve to be happy?

The thing is, OP, this man doesn't respect you. He thinks you're a woman and therefore by defninition inferior to him. All this unpleasant behaviour of his is about putting you in your place - you are supposed to be devoting all your energies to placating and pleasing him, he wants you nervy and wrong-footed and constantly anxious about whether or not he is happy.
If it were me I would say 'You obviously don't want to be here any more, well guess what, I am sick to death of your moods too, so piss off.'

It strikes me that anyone who dismisses your opinions with accusations of you being a feminist (shock, horror !!) is an arse.

He's dragging you down. Get some counselling.

I also remember the "pavement" thread.

You sound lovely, and you do not have to justify your earnings/spending etc to us. It sounds like he doesn't respect anything you do - even the stuff that you feel is best for your son.

Have now read the other threads again. I'm sorry, but he seems to be saying clearly (verbally and non-verbally) that he wants to separate. You are doing all the worrying and suggesting ways to make things better, he's pushing you away. I think you are expending a lot of energy holding this together and it's going to result in you becoming exhausted.

He asks how you can accept him supporting you.

1. You make and had have made a big financial input.(you don't have to justify earnings to us, but it might help if you point out to him, as he thinks who brings the money in is so important.) (Although I am not sure he will accept what you say, going on what he seems to be like).

1. There is nothing wrong or that unusual about the main earner having more economic contribution, while Dc very young especially, and the main carer contributing and supporting by looking after DC, and the house etc. (On divorce, this is recognised.) He needs to value what you are doing, and it seems like he doesn't. You can see on these boards women who do not bring in earnings but their DH see the whole household as teamwork and value what their wives or partners do. (yes I know sometimes it is the woman who is the main earner with SAHD).

Your DH seems to recognise neither your SAHM contribution, nor your financial contribution.

You are working really hard just being at home bringing up your son - the most important job you will have. Just because it is unpaid doesn't mean it is unimportant. Your DH is not recognising your input and giving you credit for it. He has switched off in your relationship.
Think about how you can move on because there may be a better life out there for you. You deserve better.

What support do you have in real life? Have you spoken to anyone about this- friends, family?

he only resents supporting you financially because he doesn't value what you are doing (or you for that matter).

i think if this was all about two people who like each other but were struggling to get along sometimes and just needed some tools to do so it would be very different. but it sounds as if neither of you likes the other.

so at the moment you are only together for the practicalities. that is not enough imho.

I'm sorry OP but I really think this is over. HE is making it impossible for you, you are trying and trying to save it and he isn't receptive to any of it or making an effort.