How do you cope with people who go off it when you try to challenge them?

[ilovemyhens]

I often feel as though I'm being held to ransom in my own home because if I do ever complain to dh about his behaviour he just turns it round on me and creates such hassle that I wish I hadn't bothered

There's no violence or nastiness involved, I just feel like he's got me where he wants me by throwing these tantrums. I don't really like conflict and it's a huge mental effort to bring anything up that I'm not happy with. He's just so touchy and awkward. I feel like I'm living with a 12 year old silly girl, not a grown man

Is it worth trying to be more assertive or just continue as I am, biting my tongue and hoping he just snaps out of it?

It's getting annoying, I feel like I'm a single parent to three kids, not married with two

It may be helpful for you to get a few things clear in your head.

1. He is choosing to behave like this. There is no way you can manage a person's behaviour to make it more workable. In other words...start trying to understand that it is NOT your responsibility to resolve this. YOUR responsibility (and possibly the way that you will find your solution) is contained in 2. below.

1. Once you've got your head round the above concept (which is not easy) start trying to create some clear boundaries of what is acceptable to you. Think deeply what things really hurt about his behaviour. Think of say, two or three things. Decide that these things will no longer be accepted by you.

How you communicate what is no longer acceptable will be up to you. Any of the suggestions of the others are good. But, as you say, what you need to change is your way of responding. I think that the only way you will do that is by really pondering the above and getting your boundaries CLEARLY marked in your own mind.

Sorry for the ramble.

"I did buy him a Mr Grumpy mug for Christmas, but chickened out of giving him it "

OK 2 points

1. your instinct is to be indirect - why on earth would you buy him a Mr Grumpy mug if he is being an unpleasant sulking bore. What is wrong with you?

2. you need to be direct - say "you are being an unpleasant sulking bore and you need to stop now if you know what's good for you"

There's really not a lot else to it. Feelings aren't involved. If someone was being lovely and you called them an "unpleasant sulking bore", they would rightly be hurt.It is not the case here.

"I just feel guilt if I see someone struggling, even if they're putting it on."
Really? Really really? How foolish.

I think a five minute application of cold logic would soon sort that one out in your head.

Truly, think it through, and I think you will kick yourself very hard.

Wake up from your dream and recognise that he is full of crap, and sadly so are you.

You're not full of crap ilove, though he certainly is. But you do need to toughen up.

Yep, the grumpy mug. Do you understand how you changed your behaviour because of HIM? In the next few days try to recognise how often you are changing your behaviour to accommodate his.

i agree with mumonthenet.I have recently got out of a marriage where i was in a similar situation.
I kept trying to get through to him for years but he just didn't get it.
I feel for you,its so hard and it wears you down.

I'm not full of crap, I just came here to ask for some advice. Just because I'm not prepared to dump my marriage doesn't mean that I deserve to be spoken to like that

The mug was just a silly impulse buy when I was in a shop with ds1 and we saw it and just bought it to be silly, but then I realised it was too close to the truth and didn't give it to dh because I figured it might make him worse due to his lack of humour.

I am prepared to work at this and alter my responses and be more assertive.

Thank you for the advice everyone has given.

Ilovemyhens, have you any options to do some personal counselling to look at your own difficulties in being assertive? You're certainly not alone in this - many of us were socialized in this way, and it is difficult to override this training. As you know, you can't change him, you can only change your steps in the dance, and that in itself changes the dance, one way or another.

OP please don't run away!

Your opening post struck such an uncannily similar chord with me...

2 days before we visit my parents, he starts to 'come down with something'.

Likewise, feels a migraine 'in the post' on weekends where I might have hinted I want some me time, so he can't look after the kids.

My husband is a pro at passive aggressive control and manipulation. He has controlling tendencies and descends into selfishness if not kept in check. He can keep a sulk going and create and maintain a horrible atmosphere indefinitely until he gets what he wants.

I didn't think of myself as a weak, stupid woman who just tries to please my man, but after 10 years of marriage I was surrendering into an unhappy martyred role.

Ok. My husband sounded awful the way I've condensed his worst attributes into one sentence, but actually his good points were worth me trying to set him straight.

I did have to take a deep breath and steel myself at first, as the effort for change was overt rather than covert, but he now takes the kids out my hair regularly (and enjoys it), gives me lie-ins, does some housework without being asked but is also pleasant and happy to be asked.

Even better, but weirder, is that he is happier too. I think that previously he felt on some level that he was being unreasonable, but wasn't changing it because I allowed it, which made him feel worse, and so it went on.

Good luck to you, but I do urge you not to stand for it, you don't have to shout at him, in fact I found that was hugely counter productive. I did lots of walking away calmly while saying "It's not up to you to decide how to treat me, and I don't tolerate sulking/bad language/whatever" - I learned it from lurking on mn and it was enormously effective.

I am waiting for cbt, but the waiting list is enormous and can take several months, if not about a year to be seen. I do have some depression and am on citalopram to deal with this.

I'm not a weak person who's prepared to put up with this treatment, which is why I'm here asking for advice. Leaving is not an option, I have to stay and sort this out come hell or high water. I would only leave a marriage if violence or mental abuse was involved and this doesn't feel like mental abuse, just some manipulation and excessive martyrdom from a weak hypochondriac, but I didn't marry him because he was Action Man, so I can hardly really complain about something that I've allowed to become worse. It's up to me to stop allowing him to treat me like this. I have been mentally abused in the past, so I know what it feels like and I got rid of my ExP when he started doing it.

I have decided to challenge him every time he starts arseing around and I'm not going to tolerate it any more. If it means disturbing the status quo, then so be it.

Thank you for the insight and advice nickname and cake

I hope it goes well and I agree it is def worth trying to change your reactions to give him a jolt to behave reasonably before giving up on the marriage.

Good luck, OP

I hope your strategy works and doesn't wear you down too much x

As soon as he mentions the virus as an excuse book a Dr's appointment there and then and tell him you are coming with him as you are so concerned. If he refuses to go - then every time he raises it look him in the eye and say I don't believe you and if he kick off walk away.

ilovemyhens it sounds incredibly difficult living with someone like that. He is clearly extremely sensitive to criticism - for some people, criticism can chip away at their sense of self and really shake them to their core, which means they can lash out and react defensively when criticised. He is also being reinforced for his behaviour, because when he acts this way, you back down.

I wonder if you could try talking about this issue with him when you have no request to make. Could you simply talk about the dynamics of your interactions in a way where he's not going to get too defensive? You could start off with a less threatening topic and gradually work your way into more challenging territory, trying to just listen to him and be supportive as he talks, to make these topics less "fraught" and to develop a better understanding of his perspective. For example you could try:

1. First, asking him about what criticism means for him - how does he interpret it? Does he think his view of criticism differs to that of other people?

1. What are some examples of what he would view as criticism from you? How does he feel when he hears criticism from you? (You might be surprised at how sensitive/ paranoid he is.)

1. Does he think criticism can be a good/ useful thing? Why/ why not? What does he think someone should do if they notice a behaviour in someone else that needs to be changed for the greater good?

1. What does he think of the idea that when you ask him to make some changes, your intention is not to criticise him, but to make your relationship a happier one?

... etc. These could all be separate conversations, to reduce the likelihood of conflict escalating. Also, yes, you will definitely have to be more assertive, because he has learnt that playing his "virus card" works and makes you back down. If this tactic stops working, he will stop using it, but I think you will have to start standing your ground and telling him that the virus excuse is not going to work anymore. You could say that either he goes to the doctor to get it checked out and resolve it - or he stops "remaining content to be sick" yet using this as an excuse not to do anything. He can't have it both ways.

Thank you, totallyfrozen this is very useful advice for me.

Things have gotten a bit worse over the last couple of days because I've been standing up to him. I've decided to keep out of his way for a few days and let him get on with it.

I challenged him last night about the 'virus' and reminded him that I'd had it too, plus a uti, plus a minor op on my foot and he backed down.

He's going on a day retreat on Saturday, so I'm going to have a few things aired before he goes and it might give him an opportunity to think about stuff whilst he's away. I honestly think he'd be better off living by himself because he doesn't seem suited to family life and is always going on about "me time", which is just selfish and how his father used to go on.

His father had his own room (large) where he'd have all his computer/electronics equipment etc. He only used to emerge for meals and did no housework or shopping and very little cooking. MIL used to do everything. I think dh is secretely hankering after a life like this

Sounds like a 1950s nightmare to me.

It sounds like your husband has learnt from his father what "being a father" should be like, and is distressed to find that you're not as willing to "sink into submission" the way his mother was. His parents' lives sound hellish to me!

Good to hear that you found a way of getting him to back down. I just thought I'd say also that any reinforced behaviour isn't going to go without a fuss. Like with kids who are used to their parents giving in when they tantrum, when parents decide to no longer give in, the first thing kids do is amp their behaviour up. It takes a while for them to learn their old behaviour won't work anymore. So you probably will have to experience unpleasant conflict before things change. I hate conflict too so I can relate to how unpleasant that would be. And I don't like using a parent-child analogy for your relationship - though I guess you've already likened his behaviour to that of a child, so it's probably quite accurate!

Yes, I agree that it's going to get worse before it gets better.

He's currently downstairs trying to get round me by cleaning/tidying the lounge and dining room I'm glad I'm out at work soon.

What was he like when you first lived together? Has he stopped doing as much as he used to?

Sounds like him retiring from work means he thinks he is "retired" without any responsibilities to anyone else?

ilove, have popped back here to see how you're doing.

seems you're doing well, and...as you've already worked out...if you want this marriage to work you may have to get nasty, or things may have to get nastier, before they get better iyswim. But it will be worth it. I hope.

there's an author called Patricia Evans - you might be interested in her books.

Her subjects are mainly Verbally Abusive relationships - not physical violence. She has a brilliant chapter on the various manipulative/controlling behaviours to be found in certain people. Could be useful for you - if only for you to be able to recognise/name/isolate some of your dh's behaviour. I appreciate and recognise that your dh is not abusive necessarily in the same way as the subjects of her books but I am wondering if they might help to give you some clarity? Check out Amazon for more info...or maybe a more suitable book? Sorry if I'm off the mark here. Good luck anyway.

Can you book him an appointment at the doctors about his virus?

I got so fed up of DP refusing to do anything about his various ailments that I did that. Two out of three ailments now sorted, the other will mend on its own