Which way do I go? At a crossroads regarding relationship with my parents.

[JazzieJeff]

Hi! Apologies in advance for long post...

I've posted on this topic before; controlling parents etc. I don't know how to do links etc but if you search my username then you should find the backstory. To cut a long story short; my parents have a history of being quite controlling over me and this came to a head when I became pregnant with my DC last year.

Our relationship became very difficult, I phoned my Mum up for help because I was finding things hard at work (they were threatening my promotion). She said that she sympathised with my work's position and that pregnant women chose to become pregnant and that I would have to 'take it on the chin'. I should probably make it known here that I work for a large organisation, and that this problem was later solved with mediation with my bosses. I then asked how my Dad was, and she said that I shouldn't mention the pregnancy to him because he had 'taken it very hard'. I, at this point (and still am) was married to my lovely DH and had a car and a home together. This was the attitude that I faced for a long time.

When we moved into our current property when I was about midway through my pregnancy, my parents came to visit. My Dad took me to one side on my own and said that he had been 'really fucking angry and disappointed' when we told them I was pregnant, but he said that 'things were the way they were' and gave me a hug [hug]

The last time I asked for advice, people on here told me to wait intil my DC was born. My DC is here now, and things have gotten worse I think.

To be fair they have babysat for us twice, the first time they came over here but were an hour late (no text, phone call or anything; I was getting really worried) because they were looking at holiday homes. Then the second time, we went to their house but in the end we left early because we felt really unwelcome and awkward (sp). Before Christmas, my Mum and I had a conversation that left me feeling like crap. She phoned me and I asked if there was an issue between my Dad and I. She said that Dad felt that it was me with the issue; that my body language was off with him and that I made him feel bad. She also said that she didn't think it was the right time in my life to have a baby but 'he's here now so....' They kept saying this kind of thing through my pregnancy, but apparently it's my 'issue' and they're 'over it' now. Which is great, but they made me feel like shit. I think I'm due an apology; they didn't need to say the things that were said. If they think them, that's one thing; but to say them is quite another, especially in relation to a baby. There are a few home truths I could come out with that would probably really hurt them, but the point is I don't come out with it; where's the point? Live and let live. In the end, my DH phoned and asked them not to come for Boxing Day, because of the things mentioned above and we felt it was all gearing up for a bit of a barney; not something we really wanted to deal with at Christmas. In hindsight, I probably could've dealt with that better and lied and said we had colds/flu but I was really angry at the time. My fault there, I take that one on the chin.

Anyway, the other day a letter dropped through my door from my Mum. She basically listed all the things I've done wrong in the past year and it's all gone downhill since I announced I was pregnant. The thing that gets me is that she says sometimes I've been abrupt with them, but she explains away my Dad's 'abruptness' as him being honest and 'saying it like it is'. Yes, I have been a bit more abrupt of late, but to be honest I've felt like quashing these remarks they've been making. A few times when my Dad called me 'fatty' in late pregnancy, I did rebuke him for it because I thought it was mean and uncalled for. I did let them babysit for a couple of hours because to be honest, I thought it might help them love my DC and build a relationship. Perhaps that wasn't a great plan, but I guess I was trying to give everyone time to bond. My Dad hasn't held him yet

I'm sorry this doesn't probably make much sense, if there's any details I haven't mentioned I'll try to fill them in as I go. I don't know where to go here really. I feel stuck with it all. There are things I could've handled better, for sure but in her letter my Mum says I haven't even told her what's wrong, even though my DH made it clear when he phoned them that it was the way they had treated us since I got pregnant that was the issue. They have 'gotten over it' as they said, but if they're over it, then why can't they apologise? I'm struggling with this. Even reading this back, it sounds really silly like I'm making something out of nothing. I even quesiton myself sometimes because I think that I must be making these things up in my head. If you listen to the way they say it all, they make themselves sound like the most hard done by people in the world, but I'm not that bad a daughter.

What can I do? Am I making it worse in my head?

Thank you in advance

You know Jazzie, I am not an expert on abusive relationships, but you should perhaps google gaslighting and see if this is what is happening between you and your parents:

"Gaslighting takes place to varying degrees in many different situations. Gaslighters may also:

make hurtful comments and then accuse you of being too sensitive and unwilling to take a joke;

exaggerate your shortcomings in an attempt to damag-=e your self-confidence;

convince you that you have shortcomings that you really don't have;

make a demeaning comment to you and then deny that the comment was made;
and
get angry because you don't believe their lies and try to shame you for not trusting them.

what is gaslighting

Forgive me if I am way off the mark, though.

Hi Jazzie

I would leave until your mum calls and asks what you thought of the letter, then tell her exactly what you've told us, or if you find it easier, write it down in a letter - weird! (them not you!)

LisMcA Thankyou for taking the time to do that; apologies for not providing a link but I don't know how to do it! I don't think this situation will ever change to be honest, I've tried every which way to change it but I don't think I can change their views.

Quintessntial Thankyou. It helps to have people validate your feelings and make you realise you're not imagining it all.

How do I move forwards? Do I acknowledge the letter at all?

Its not you Jazzy, its them. Also like many children now adults of toxic parents, you are now caught in the FOG - fear, obligation, guilt. Counselling for your own self would be helpful.

Toxic parents more often than not become toxic grandparents as well. I would be extremely wary about allowing any of your children near them to be honest as they could well start on you via them. They don't deserve you.

All their actions are those of toxic people; the rewriting of history, the non acceptance of responsibility for their actions are also classic. Such people as well NEVER apologise because they feel they have done nothing wrong in the first place.

Controlling behaviours too are abusive behaviours.

Both your parents are inherently dysfunctional; their own upbringings as children likely contributed to them being as they are now. You did NOT make them this way.

If you have not already done so I would suggest you read the following;-

"If you had controlling parents" written by Dr Dan Neuharth and "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward.

Cutting all contact with them is something I would now seriously consider doing as these two bring nothing positive into your life.

Quintessential I will take a look, thankyou.

Need I thought it was odd; I definately wasn't expecting it! I had offered to meet up with her (just us two, no DH's; I thought it would be calmer) but she's made it clear she doesn't want that.

Such toxic people are more than adept at listing a laundry list of your own supposed shortcomings (this is what your mother has done here).

I think there are two things to sort out separately here: (1) how you feel about it (and you're entirely reasonable to feel hurt/upset/offended/bewildered and all manner of other things; and (2) how you're going to deal with the practicalities of communication.

I suspect wrt (1) the relationship can't ultimately be fixed - if they were going to turn into the kind of parents/grandparents that you wanted, they would have done it by now. That level of self-absorption and neediness is not something that's going to go away, whatever you do. If you magically find the right thing to say to appease them in one situation, it will just pop up on the next occasion when you inadvertently say something that they take exception to. So I think you probably do need to start coming to terms with the way they are, and mentally separating yourself from it so that you no longer feel guilty and responsible for their madder outbursts. Therapy might be helpful too, as it can be hard to get distance from this kind of thing on your own. You sound quite defensive in your posts, which suggests that you are very quick to take responsibility, and they are taking advantage of that to make out that any breakdown of the relationship is your fault, which from what you've said, it clearly isn't, as they are obviously wired to Planet Bonkers and Planet Controlling.

Wrt (2) I think keeping your distance and being civil without bending over backwards to please and appease is the thing to aim for. The phrase, "I'm sorry you feel that way" is incredibly useful here, as it allows you to express regret without actually taking responsibility for it or apologising.

Jazzie-I'm so pleased you and dh are able to see the situation for what it is. You are very lucky that you are so strong together. If you were to ignore the letter and distance yourself how would you actually feel about it? You're not actually gaining anything positive in a practical or emotional way. I know it's not what u would have wanted or anticipated but when u have come to accept that you are your own person (and family) without their help or approval you may find some peace

Attila The toxic parents theory has been mentioned to me in the past on other threads. I suppose I've always been looking for it to get better around the next corner, like I thought it would change when my DC was born. Now I guess there aren't any more corners to turn.

Polly You've hit the nail on the head there I think with how I feel. I do feel that the letter was a bit self-pitying 'oh, you've done this, that and the other' and even dishing out a punishment; 'we were going to give you our car, but because of your behaviour, we're not going to'. A part of me wanted to laugh, almost. Change the context and you're talking to a 12 year old. But a huge part of me felt so, so sad. She told me that my DH's phone call asking them to stay away made her cry in the bath and my Dad very 'emotionally distressed'. That made me feel bad. I obviously didn't want her to feel that bad.

lolly I was going to just ignore the letter, but I guess in the longterm it's going to be brought up so I'm not too sure what I'll do then.

"She told me that my DH's phone call asking them to stay away made her cry in the bath and my Dad very 'emotionally distressed'".

Of course she cried in the bath and he was emotionally distressed. And what about all the distress they cause you and not take any responsibility for?.

Jazzy, it was likely said by her to make you feel bad. Do not fall for such blatant emotional blackmail from your parents. They know all too well how to push your buttons and will push you to your very limit. They do not actually give a fig about hurting you.

Do read the books recommended because they will help you.

I also think that distancing yourself and your own family unit away from these two will ultimately make you a lot happier as well. Your parents bring nothing at all positive into your life.

I had to deal with my dad's disappointment with me, and the best way i ofund was to reiterate (first to myself, then as I got more confident, to him)

"I am a grown woman with my own children. I don't have to listen to you - you were not a perfect parent."

Oh bugger - just done long post and list it. Anyway to shorten it I wouldn't respond to the letter. They r trying to provoke a reaction (I sense they like a but if drama) and u can't win. You either apologise to the letter and they continue to control u or you don't so they r furious and it gets worse. I would ignore and if they bring it up I would tell them u thought it was an unproductive letter abd that it didn't dignify a response

Bloody I phones - I can spell in real life.

I am finding reading all this incredibly helpful and informative thanks to such wise posters.

DH and I are going through a similar thing with his parents its very hurtful Jazzy you have my sympathy. MIL was incredibly rude and aggressive to DH and I over Christmas which we didnt respond to. When we called her subsequently she put the phone down on our 4 year old DD . She then rang on DH's birthday to inform him of a list of his "faults" all totally baseless DH is a fantastic person and endlessly patient with his parents. We are concluding that all the problems between us stem from the ILs personalities which are not going to change so we are contemplating cutting them loose which is painful as they are DH's parents.

What was said earlier up the thread "I've always found that it's the people who say that they 'just tell it like it is' who are the first to play the victim when someone tells them how it is" was such a perfect description of MIL I snorted my cup of tea.

Wrt the letter you just say, "You obviously feel very upset about the fact that I'm an adult with a life that's separate from yours. I'm sorry you feel that way." Repeat ad nauseam.

You have done nothing wrong - obviously you may sometimes have been abrupt with them, but we're all sometimes grumpy or off-hand when we're busy or distracted or under the weather. People we like or love will make allowances for that, or maybe will even react by checking that we're okay and not upset or unwell. "You sounded a bit frosty with me, I was wondering whether you were just tired or whether I've done something to upset you?" would be a normal response to an adult daughter being a bit abrupt. Writing a letter of accusation (and I know exactly how this feels, I've been on the receiving end of 10-page letters that listed everything I've ever done 'wrong' since I was born) is not a normal response. And their excessive emotional reactions to perfectly standard family interactions points very clearly to it being their issue not yours.

You need to get some distance, both emotionally and in terms of your responses - you don't have to cut them off for life, but they need to understand that you are entitled to make adult life choices, and that they need to accord you the respect and civility that they would extend to any other person. They may not ultimately choose to do that, but that is their choice and not your responsibility. It's not your job to make them happy.

Sadly by 'over it' I think they mean 'have recovered from the huge emotional damage you inflicted on them' so don't see any reason to apologise. They are self-obsessed meanies and you need to look after yourself around them. I found therapy helpful in this situation because it gives you the strength to not feel guilty about distancing yourself and also reinforces the idea that it is ok not to want to see them. You don't owe them anything. Oh yes, and therapy also helped me give up the idea that one day they will be nice parents if I keep on giving and giving.

Wow! I feel such sympathy for you. I second Attila's suggestion to read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. It has lots of case studies of very similar situations to yours, and I think you will find it invaluable reading. It also gives ideas on how to deal with parents like yours. For what it is worth, your father's reaction to your pregnancy was not at all normal, and it would be interesting to find out what the heck was behind his thoughts there. Very odd indeed.

Jazzy I take it you are an only child?

The way your parents have behaved towards you IS atrocious. You are an independent adult, married and living in your own home. They have absolutely nothing to say on your decision as a couple to start a family.

You are indeed owed an apology and having got this far it is very important now that you stick to your guns. Any future relationship you have with them (if at all) cannot possibly continue as it has been.

You sound pretty together despite their controlling treatment of you growing up no doubt and you are right in that your husband should have opinions and feelings about this too. It's great you have an ally in life and someone to support you. This must really unhinge them. Not only do you dare to love someone else but you've created this new baby together who has even more priority over them!

Keep your distance from them. Make some ground rules about what kind of interaction and language you will tolerate towards you and YOUR family. If they cannot abide by this and the apology is not forthcoming you will have your answer and do not need to feel guilty about being a bad daughter. In fact nothing you have described would categorize you as a bad daughter!

They need to know you can see through them and that you are quite prepared to walk away. With people like this you ALWAYS call their bluff.

p.s. I was married at 26 and had a baby at 28. Age aside you sound MATURE enough to be dealing with the life you are creating with your husband.

They should be happy for you at this most amazing time!!!! and instead they are doing everything they can to ruin it for you. Don't let them.

Wow, so many lovely, kind and suppotive replies. When I say mid 20's, I am now (24 this year) but I was 22 when I had my DC (a week off 23, but there you go) so quite young; but still pretty sorted I think. Like I said though, I don't think age really comes into it. I'm not a crack addicted 17 year old prostitute. Thus far, I feel like I've been dismissed as a silly little girl. I wouldn't judge say, a 48 year old for choosing to have a baby, she'd probably make a great Mum.

I just can't believe they sit at home at night talking about how they can get under my skin. I cannot imagine what is going through their minds.

What I need now is a plan of action and some coping strategies. I don't know whether or not cutting them lose is the way forward, but I'm prepared to listen to anything. I need a way forward now I think...

You need a script.

With an over controlling parent, you need to have something to say that will stop you saying all the things you said when you were 12.

I was also a few weeks shy of 23 with Ds1. I had a job, and was unfortunately living with them temporarily between rental houses, my partner having gone back to HIS parents, this being 2003 in the middle of the property boom, and people turning up in their HUNDREDS for each house that came on the market (I'm not exaggerating!)

They also reacted as if I was a 17 year old syphilis riddled, crack addicted prostitute, and the way they treated me (constant shouting, culminating in my mother ejecting me from the house when I was 5 months pregnant and leaving me homeless) contributed in a huge way to my depression after I had my son.

I EVENTUALLY learned to deal with them thus.

I never ask them for anything. I don't contact them - they choose to contact me, but it's on my terms - they come to my house where I am on my own ground, or they ring my phone which I can cut off if I choose.

Criticism from my father is answered with "This is the way I do things. I do things that are appropriate to my children. You don't help, therefore you have no right to an opinion. I am thirty years old, and my children are perfect, YOU are the only person who sees problems with my parenting, therefore YOU must be the person who is wrong."

Doesn't help that Ds1 has ADHD and Autism, which, of course, is my fault for being poor.

'they sit at home at night talking about how they can get under my skin'

what a horrible thought.

They sound very odd, and it's sad that they've taken this stance. They're missing out on so much.

Tbh, sounds like it's your dad that's being odd and possessive of you in a totally unhealthy way. Maybe your mum's scared to do anything other than back him up.

Thank heavens you're clearly married to a very supportive DH. Well done for making a great choice there.

This is clearly not how you would like things to be, but you've done the right thing in protecting your boundaries. They can't just do and say what they like. It's not at all true that it's terrible timing - your setup sounds ideal to me. What was your dad like at your wedding? The thing is, getting married is one thing, but once you've had a child with someone, it's the ultimate lifelong commitment to them.

They'll have to experience life without you for a little while before they realise they'll need to show you far more support.