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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Help me put things into perspective

26 replies

wonderwooman · 01/02/2011 10:08

Basically, DH and I ended up having another massive row last night from what was a very minor thing in the first place. This is very common now. Every argument (initially big or little) turns into a massive blow-out where all the old issues are dragged to the fore.

Whatever the initial disagreement was about ends up coming back round to the fact that I will never admit I'm wrong (of course DH NEVER is), that I'm so pig-headed I'd rather argue and that I deliberately push him to cause an argument.

These happen every couple of weeks, sometimes every week. The times in between are often very happy.

Sex is an issue. I could live without it, he can't. We frequently argue about it.

I guess what I want to know is whether this is normal...how often do other 'happily married' couples argue.

OP posts:
Roisinniamh · 01/02/2011 10:27

Sounds worrying to me!
Two major issues here, rowing getting out of control and mismatched sex drives.
Having arguments is good as long as things are resolved as a result of it. But it sounds like yours are destructive.
And sex is what makes a couple 'a couple' otherwise you can end up being like brother and sister or 'friends' !
How long have you been together?
Do you have children?
Do you still love and respect him?

Original poster
wonderwooman · 01/02/2011 10:39

Married 10 years, together 14.
3 children Sad
I don't know if I love him
I don't know if I respect him
Our arguments are destructive and the deeper issues aren't resolved

I don't know what to do

OP posts:
Roisinniamh · 01/02/2011 10:49

I used to behave like that. I was frustrated and blamed him for everything, and we fought a lot because like you, the deeper issues were not resolved. I did not respect him and didn't know if I loved him or not. But (again like you ) when we were not rowing we were 'happy'. Well, I thought we were ! We presented a good image to friends and family. What I didn't know was that my DH was very unhappy and the rows really affected him.
What are your deeper issues?

Original poster
wonderwooman · 01/02/2011 11:02

The fact that the arguments always end up coming back to the same things from DH:

  • that I am either lazy, stubborn or unwilling to admit I'm wrong.
  • that I don't care about him and that he's the lowest priority in the house.
  • and the sex thing, of course. This goes in cycles, but it always seems to be me who's making the effort to fit in with his expectations (ie. i'll have sex even when I don't want to) as opposed to him giving me a break!

Maybe he's right! Maybe I'm not working hard enough in the relationship.

I don't think he's unhappy. I wonder if I am.

We do present a good image to f & f.

OP posts:
nje3006 · 01/02/2011 11:05

has he given you specific examples about being lazy, stubborn or unwilling to admit you're wrong? He might have a point that you haven't seen or he might be wrong or he might be projecting ie these are things about HIM not you.

Can you talk about this stuff when you're not in the middle of a row. Can you ask him what he means when he says you're lazy?

If he is willing to talk about it you can then figure out whether you think he has a point or is talking rubbish...

Ooopsadaisy · 01/02/2011 11:07

Sounds a bit worrying wonderwooman.

My first reaction to your post was "Oh - everyone argues - you're fine."

But you clearly recognise that your arguments are destructive and dig deeper each time they happen.

DP and I argue but we usually end up laughing and finding a compromise. There is respect there and we love each other.

Does he realise that these arguments eat away at you? Have you actually talked calmly about them?

MrsNonSmoker · 01/02/2011 11:09

Roisinniamh how was your situation resolved or are you just living with it at the moment?

Original poster
wonderwooman · 01/02/2011 11:22

nje - DH has no grounds for calling me lazy with regards to my mothering skills - or the upkeep of the house (apart from the occasional episode when there's 'no food in the house' because what he specifically wants at that moment isn't in the fridge, so do I want him to do the shopping as well as his job yadda yadda yadda). I'm lazy when it comes to sex. I'm lazy because I haven't paid the credit card bill or i'm lazy because I haven't rung the estate agents.

The stubbornness accusation is always used during a row, because I'd rather argue than admit I'm wrong, apparently. So it happens now every time we row. I will admit I am stubborn, but I do not want to argue just for the sake of it. I am usually defending myself justifiably, in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong...I often let things go just so as not to cause a row & bite my tongue, but sometimes the frustration gets the better of me.

Daisy - We talk about it calmly sometimes, admit to one another how hurtful the rows are and (he says) that it's just because we love each other so much. I'm not so sure.

OP posts:
Roisinniamh · 01/02/2011 11:45

Long, long story MrsNon.
To my utter shock and horror I discovered he was having an affair! Won't go into details as this is not my thread but it was when he was at the point of leaving me that I realised I did love and respect him and 'fought' for my marriage. That was 17 months ago and we've been through hell. (still together and very strong)Whereas I recognised problems in the marriage I did not take the blame for his affair.
I am not suggesting it will come to that in Wonder's case. Her story struck a cord, that's all.

MrsNonSmoker · 01/02/2011 12:35

Thanks for explaining - some of this is resonating with me so I am keen to hear other people's experiences including that of the OP.

MrsNonSmoker · 01/02/2011 12:35

... although have to say I don't think I can say anything helpful, we seem to argue non-stop!

Roisinniamh · 01/02/2011 12:57

Is that recent? Or do you always argue?

MrsNonSmoker · 01/02/2011 13:01

We always argued, we have been married 23 years, but it went into overdrive after DD1 was born then just got worse. Being on Mumsnet since last summer and reading all these threads has made me think "hmm, this is probably not how most people live ..." - I always say I've learnt a lot from Mumsnet!

MrsNonSmoker · 01/02/2011 13:03

I think I have some similarities with the OP but this is her thread so I am un-hijacking now!

perfumedlife · 01/02/2011 13:06

Men can feel unloved/rejected when sex is lacking, they seem to see it as 'proof' of love. We (well, I certainly) prefer to feel valued in other ways, maybe romanced and cared for which leads me to want to make love. I think the sexes have it back to front from each other.

So, he is probably seeing your low sex drive as your lack of love/respect for him. Wrong, but there it is. Have you tried some abstaining, just cuddling/massage and then building up to having intercourse in a few weeks? It may take the pressure off you and show him there are other great ways of being close.

The arguments sound like they are chipping away at the love you have. I think that's too often. I don't imagine the kids love it either.

Original poster
wonderwooman · 01/02/2011 13:09

Roisin - my goodness, you sound as though you're coping so well. I sometimes wonder what I would do if I found out DH was having an affair (I don't know!), and I can say I admire you wholeheartedly for your fighting to keep the marriage going.

My DH isn't having an affair - of that I can be 100% sure.

I have been thinking about my situation and know some of it stems back to the fact that my DH does have a very short fuse and my instinctive reaction now to any outburst from him is for my hackles to go up because I think he's over-reacting. My ability to gauge the situation has become blurred and my threshold for ignoring or directing the niggle away from a full-blown row has disappeared.

OP posts:
Roisinniamh · 01/02/2011 13:09

I now know that I was emotionally abusive towards my H.Also he hated arguments of any nature largely due to his parents never (ever) arguing! Mine never stopped so we had no example of what was normal or acceptable!

Original poster
wonderwooman · 01/02/2011 13:10

Mrs Non - please don't feel as though you have to keep quiet!! I find it interesting to hear other people's situations too...that's why I posted in the first place.

OP posts:
Roisinniamh · 01/02/2011 13:14

Your H sounds like the way I used to be.

Original poster
wonderwooman · 01/02/2011 13:18

Perfumed - you have hit one of the nails on the head. DH totally sees it as a sign that I don't love him & that he's the lowest in the pecking order. For me, sex has become such a chore because it's expected that we do it so often. One of his issues is that I don't instigate it enough, which is true.

Our eldest dc (6) is definitely aware of the rows, which I am devastated about. Last night I thought he was asleep but asked me when I went upstairs what daddy had been shouting about Sad.

OP posts:
MrsNonSmoker · 01/02/2011 13:19

wonderwooman, I am too ashamed to write my circumstances down. Maybe one day I'll figure out how to namechange and then go for it, but I know exactly what everyone will say to me - leave him.

There are several similar threads on this at the moment, does seems to be a theme. I think its always been like this but nowadays people are able to speak out and get support, or not prepared to put up with crap. Years ago you stuck with it whether you liked it or not. I feel its hard to know where to draw the line - e.g. do you go for counselling or do you say that's it leave or what? Apart from putting up with it, what's the magic third way?

Original poster
wonderwooman · 01/02/2011 13:22

Roisin - in what way were you emotionally abusive? Did you have a temper? How have you been able to manage it?

I can't remember many arguments in my childhood home and I am generally very non-confrontational, so I find his outbursts very hard to deal with.

But I find that I am becoming like him when I am with him, iyswim. I'm never like that with anyone else (apart from the usual shouty mummy moments when things are tough), and I think I blame him for this new temper of mine too. I hate it.

OP posts:
Original poster
wonderwooman · 01/02/2011 13:25

Mrs Non - I'm wondering if we're actually in very similar situations.

OP posts:
MrsNonSmoker · 01/02/2011 13:31

I believe so WW.

DH says he was always a nice quiet person before I came along and that I make him be like he is. Now, you don't need a degree in psych to know that when someone blames you for their behaviour, something is very wrong. However, I came from a terrible background and I am very quick to start an argument so I then start saying to myself well, what if I DID make him like that? Apparently people in verbally abuse relationships often become verbal abusers themselves.

I think you me and Roisin have some similarities, but I wonder if here were 20 women on this thread, or even 20 men, with relationship problems, would we all say the same thing? Perhaps its very very common.

But even having said all that, how can it be resolved?

Roisinniamh · 01/02/2011 13:34

I used to rant on and on blaming him for everything telling him he was a bad Dad, didn't earn enough, didn't do enough around the house, all of which was unfair. I was frustrated and unhappy and lonley. He travelled a lot with his job (hence the affair opportunity) and I resented having to cope with 3 kids.The worse thing I ever said was that I did not fancy him.
But ,hey, the affair sure did punish me!
As I've said to him ''the punishment was way too severe for the crime''.
The affair was a wake up call for both of us. We had grown apart, almost lived separate lives, lost sight of each other, etc.
But, we put it right because the love was still there.And we are getting stronger and stronger.
I will never fully recover from the betrayal of the affair. But I know he loves and wants only me.