Do you monitor/try and change your partner's drinking?

[windowsonthemind]

I am wondering about this and would really appreciate hearing what other people do and what people consider reasonable. I wondered if it was more a question in the health section - not sure if it's a relationship issue as such, but here goes...

My DH and I used to be fairly heavy drinkers in the past. We would socialise and drink a fair amount seperately and together as a couple before we had children. We loved this lifestyle, both worked full-time and had a 'work hard/play hard' mentality.

When we started trying to conceive I stopped drinking heavily and have never returned - that was 11 years ago. I was lucky enough to be able to just stop - stopped smoking too and it didn't bother me.

My DH still really enjoys drinking but I worry about the health effects and damage it will be doing especially as he is now nearing 50. A few years ago I used to go onto him about it a lot and he got pissed off with me and our relationship deteriorated. So I then tried stepping back and just took the attitude that it is his health, his liver and if he wants to mess it up, then that's up to him. But I can't stick to this as I see him drinking and I worry.

I mentioned it to him recently and used the Government units of 21 a week for a man as reason for my concern. He just brushed this off and said that they're always changing the recommended levels so they don't mean anything anyway and I should relax about it.

So, do I try relaxing a bit harder ! or make an 'issue' of it and risk winding myself and him up further?

BTW, some weeks he drinks 4-5 evenings in the week, maybe half a bottle of wine or a few whiskeys, other weeks he drinks every night but still only half a bottle/or few whiskeys and then has a night once a month or so when he has substantially more, a lot more. So he doesn't drink masses but I don't think it's that healthy, I think his sleep is affected when he has been drinking and he is overweight. On the plus side he goes to the gym 2 or 3 times a week and eats reasonably healthily. I feel a bit hypocritical to make an issue of it as I used to drink so much myself, and it seems a bit unfair on him just because I have gone all healthy, that he should have to follow suit, but we haven't grown together on this one and I wish we had.

The reality of the situation is that 21 units/week is supposed to be the maximum for a man. I'm in a similar situation. My H went through a stage where he was drinking a bottle of wine/night or more 6 days of the week (7-9 bottles/week). A 13.5% bottle has 10.2 units of alcohol. So that put him somewhere in the range of 60-90 units/week. He was definitely 'self-medicating' during this stage and now is drinking substantially less. However I found it very hard to discuss this with him during this time (very bad phase in our relationship). Now he drinks about 2-3 bottles/wine per week. Some weeks he might have less but others he might have more.
I am stressed about it. We've had so much stuff to deal with, I just couldn't cope with him being dependent on alcohol as well.
Recently I've made my feelings on the issue clearer to him. I've told him 21 units is supposed to be the maximum. I'm not going to be fobbed off with him whinging that I'm nagging him. If he drinks more than that he is doing it knowing how I feel about it. If he ends up an alcoholic (or drinking as much as he was before), I'm leaving.
But, to answer your question, yes I am monitoring and trying to change my partner's drinking and I know it's not the right thing to be doing.

Thanks newname. You sound as though you have been more forthright in this matter than I have. I have been reluctant to add up his units in my head as I think that's going too far in terms of monitoring, and I don't want to treat him like a child, but I wonder if I am hiding my head in the sand. By your reckoning half a bottle of wine is 5 units, so only 4 half bottles in a week is OK. Well, my DH definately has more.

I feel such an old nag though if I mention it. When is a good time to discuss it though? Like you say, not good to discuss in a heavy drinking week, but as soon as we have a reduced drinking week, I just want to enjoy not worrying about it.

windows - My H's mother died from liver failure at 54 due to alcoholism. I'm very very aware of it.
I had to do the counting up thing because H was being so dishonest. He was constantly playing down how much he was drinking, starting counting from the odd day or 2 where he didn't drink, attributing half of each bottle to me etc. using some in dinner and counting that as 3/4 of a bottle etc. in other words he was already behaving like an alcoholic (or perhaps I'm totally in denial and he is an alcoholic..).
Luckily for us, we are both in therapy now (separately) so I have been able to stand up for myself a bit more and he has been more willing to listen too.

Oh dear, that's sad.

If you don't mind me asking newname do you spend much time wondering if he is an alcoholic or not? And then find stupid things that reassure you that of course he's not and all will be fine? I do, but I seem to be good at hiding my head in the sand.

We go through a recurring pattern - if I mention drinking-too-much to my DH he will be funny about it, laugh it off, reassure me all is fine, then next day I mention it again and he will be defensive, get a bit cross, mention lack of evidence for units thing, point out he manages to hold down good job, then a few days later he will reduce his drinking for a while and we re-enter a calm phase. Then all starts up again! But it is never so bad that I feel I can push my point across.

Yes, I have spent lots of time thinking about H's drinking. It's a really bad sign.
I know it's a bad sign and I am glad we have spoken now and he understands where I'm coming from.

tbh, the laughing it off, reassuring, getting cross, defensiveness are all bad signs. H also felt completely entitled to drink this much because of work stresses etc.

I am a direct person in many aspects of my life but I found I wasn't able to broach the issue with H as he would do all of the above, and get aggressive about it as well.
I was very passive-aggresive. I started lining up all the bottles (beside the recycling bin) so that I would see for myself what was being drunk, and also partly hoping that H would realise himself that it was too much. Of course he never 'noticed'.
I also started doing a household budget - so I was noting all of our expenses (to a penny) and I saw how much we were spending on alcohol/week.
I felt I had to do all these things because of H's dishonesty. When it came down to it he was simply lying to get me off his back.
I can't make him drink less, all I can do is tell him what I think. But I will not put up with him drinking that much again, I believe he knows that now.

I wonder this about my DP. He drinks a lot, and I suppose I notice it more at the moment because I'm pg, so barely drinking anything (1-2 units a week). He's getting up to 50 as well, and I do think he must be damaging himself.

He won't count, but I reckon he has about 4-6 units on a 'light' day, and about 3 light days a week. He drinks loads on 4 days each week and he lies about how much he drinks.

I don't remember the last time he went a day without alcohol. He says he could stop if he wanted to, but I don't think I believe him.

I've brought it up with him in the past, in fact I brought it up with him on Monday after he'd drunk himself into unconsciousness on Sunday, when we had people round for lunch. We've since had a massive row (partly about the drinking) and DS and I are now sleeping on the floor in the playroom. Sigh.

Oh that's not good tola. Why are you and DS on the playroom floor? If you needed space couldn't you have got your DP to sleep on the floor?

I might try counting units so atleast I can't be fobbed off. I haven't done this but I think I might as we're in a phase right now and I'm worried about my DH. I worried that he's depressed and covering it up by drinking. But I worry about his health most of all as I want him staying around and staying healthy.

I like your approach to this newname. So you tell him how you feel about his drinking, really clearly, then leave him to act accordingly, depending on how much he wants to reassure you.

Do you feel guilty trying to get him to change though? I do and I also think so many other people drink loads more and seem OK so maybe he's right, that it not a big deal. (Bit sick of having my fingers crossed on this one though).

OK I'm getting the next chat ready in my head.

So newname what would you say if your DH asked WHY he should reduce his drinking? That just because YOU no longer wanted to drink, why shouldn't HE carry on? And if you mentioned the health risks for over 21 units, how would you respond if he asked what was the evidence for there being health risks? And if he said he felt fine each day, that he got up and coped with work just fine and noone else was complaining about his drinking and that if you stopped complaining, it would all be fine, what would you say? God I'm useless!

I just can't find the reasons behind my argument that he should drink less, other than I worry about his health. And he just tells me all will be fine and that I'm such a worrier. AND I am a worrier, but I don't think I worry without reason IYSWIM.

I know, windows, but Dp doesn't want space, he think I'm being hormonal/unreasonable and that we should all be sleeping in the bedroom together, so he won't leave, iyswim.

I think men just have a really brilliant switch-off mechanism, where they can just block anything they don't want to hear (excessive alcohol could kill you etc).DP crashed the car while driving home obliterated from a party just before Christmas, and it didn't slow his drinking at all.

I think trying to change people is a non-starter, although it's almost impossible not to try when you can see them doing stupid things. The problem is then you end up feeling dreadful, because when they don't change, you can feel like its cos they don't love/respect you enough.

Windows - we've had to deal with so much crap behaviour from him in the recentish past (this was a year and a half ago), he now knows when I'm serious. H has depression though he is only now able to admit that (as I was the one traditionally in our family to suffer depression, something else he used in arguments to defend his drinking, I was over-reacting, over-sensitive etc). He knows that he uses alcohol to block stuff out.

I really don't feel guilty as I know that he simply was drinking too much. He needed alcohol, he got angry if I tried to interfer with his drinking. It is obvious from all of the above that it was a problem.
I know lots of other people also drink too much. I don't care about them. I care about my family and I care about H.
As an aside, and completely irrelevant given the above - I often wonder about those people that we all know that seem to drink too much, are they really all that fine?

There is a calculator available on the BBC website (designed) for youngsters which allows you to put in what you drank last night and it calculates the units, calories, food equivilants and cost. I put in what my DH has a week and it was shocking. i have confronted him recently about his drinking, sadly its made little difference. i told him this week that I think he is an alcoholic and he was very angry. Unfortunately I do not have alot of options left.
Yes I do monitor his drinking - all the time, i also monitor the cost and the effect on our relationship/family/how he is in the morning/ability to get up in the night to the kids....need I go on?
There is a service for families of alcoholics i think it is called Al-non??

windows - my own thoughts on H's drinking have been evolving over the last year that I've been in therapy.
Consequently we have had several discussions over the last while about it.
Initially, I talked about safe limits and health, then I think I talked about his dependence on it. The 'needing' part, when he would become stressed if he was going to be denied the opportunity to drink (if he needed to drive somewhere etc.).
I spoke several times about financial implications, and many times on the effect it was having on our family life.
But ultimately, those reasons were somewhat redundant. I realised that I was anxious about H's drinking. I told him that when he drank so much I felt anxious, I told him that I simply would not be able to cope with him being an alcoholic on top of everything. The thoughts of living with an aloholic, of having my children being brought up by an alcoholic and all the damage it would do to them was simply too much. He understood that me saying I would not cope meant that I would leave.

It sounds hard work with all the therapy for you both but must feel so worth it when it has a positive effect newname. Thanks for sharing your experience. I can see that rational arguments shouldn't be necessary - just the fact that he is doing something whichcauses you anxiety should be enough.

I think I let my past drinking stop me being more assertive because I feel guilty passing judgement on him. But we had no children then so a massive difference.

I wonder too about those people having serious binges on a regular basis, and their partners being helpless watching from the sidelines.

I didn't know the BBC had an alcohol calculator. There is an NHS iPhone app apparently that tracks alcohol and I wondered about that as a way of demonstrating the reality of numbers of units. My computer is dead so off to sleep now. My DH is out tonight but with a friend who doesn't drink much so hopefully he'll come home in a soberish state!

I am bumping this thread as it is possible the most interesting that has been around for a very long time. At the moment I am very tired so will post tomorrow giving a man?s point of view which I trust many will feel helpful as this is a subject that is very important to me.

Hi there, I'm venus and I'm an alcoholic (not drinking these days).

I am so sorry for those of you who are worried about your dp's drinking. It is very difficult to know whether heavy drinking is a habit which could be changed relatively easily (as the OP did) or whether there is a more serious problem. The signs that some of your describe ARE worrying (arguing with recommended units, comparing themselves favourably with other heavier drinkers, minimising what they do drink, lying / being secretive about their drinking) however even those things are not a sure sign that someone has an alcohol problem - they might respond in exactly the same way if you were worried about their eating habits and there is something rebellious in many of us if someone tries to 'restrict' our actions.

The bottom line is that unfortunately you cannot control your dp's drinking, and you cannot make them want to stop drinking. That can only come from them.

However what you can do is be open and honest about what you observe, and offer practical support. So rather than getting into a debate about whether 21 units or 28 units or 85 units is too much, state you concern and your observtion e.g. "I am worried about your health and I notice that we never have a night in together without alcohol". If your dp normally opens a bottle of wine in the evening once the dcs are in bed, get in first and offer a slice of chocolate cake and a cup of tea.

Reward rather than criticising, so if you have sex on an evening when he has not been drinking, let him know that you appreciate laying awake afterwards cuddling and chatting rather than falling immediately asleep. (btw I am NOT suggesting that you reward him with sex, rather that if you DO have sex you comment on how nice it was).

Unfortunately if your dp has an alcohol problem, your actions and support will not change his behaviour. Be uncompromising, be honest about the problem that it causes you, know that it is not your fault, and get some good support from al-anon.

This thread is exactly what's on my mind at the minute :(

My dp has developed this habit where when he starts drinking, he continues all through the night until the next day, doesn't sleep, bangs around keeping me awake, has missed things we've planned or appointments he's supposed to keep. It's driving me insane :(

He doesn't drink every day, somtimes not for weeks, but when he does it's almost always like this. Because he doesn't drink every day he won't admit this is an issue, but it's wearing me down :(

I admit I do like a few glasses of wine as ewll, but it's got to the point where I won't suggest us having a drink in the house because I know what will happen, I can't stand it

i worry about my partner, he is a boozer and also drinks around 70-80 units a week. very often, we will drink his allocated 21 units in a night.

We had endless rows about it and he has never accepted that he has a problem.

Last year, I told him that he was entitled to drink whatever he wanted. However, he was not to drive the kids the following morning, as he was still over the limit. His meant he couldn't take ds to rugby/swimming. TO drive the point home, I bought a portable breathliser. Now if he gets tanked up, he has to prove he is sober before DS gets in the car with him.

WHat he does on weekdays is his own affair, as it only him in the car. I have told him if he wishes to kill himself, through destroying his liver or by wrapping his car round a tree, thats his lookout. BUt the kids don't get that choice, so I make the decision on whether he is safe to drive. The breathaliser cannot lie, and he cannot hide from the true of it either

There is so much to comment on, in the last few posts!

Many thanks venusandmarzipan for your thoughts. They were so helpful. You are right about not being able to control someone else - they have to do it themselves. I like your phrasing for explaining the problem and the reward aspect. AND I get what you mean about the sex bit - of course sex is better when the alcohol is absent that evening or at low levels, because you're spot on there is time/energy to chat afterwards and continue enjoying each other. And that's fine to point that out. In the same way, I find going out for dinner much, much better when we share a bottle of wine and no more. The conversation flows and is jolly with maybe some banter or teasing. When the evening starts with 2 pints first, then a bottle of white with starter, then bottle of red with mains and I only drink a glass from each bottle, the conversation can be like walking on eggshells by the end because bantor can be misinterpreted as critisism and an argument starts and I feel powerless to stop it or have to use great skill to stop it escalating which ruins the evening, but of course you can't say the evening is ruined until the next day else there'd be an argument about that! Rubbish. So reward here would be great - my DH is always happy to drive if I ask, which I rarely do, but when he's next driving and therefore not drinking, I could make a big deal about how fun the night was etc.

sarasparilla that sounds awful, having all night sessions. I know what you mean about not wanting to suggest opening wine, as that starts the whole thing off. When my DH is away for a week, I often open a bottle of white wine on the first night, have a glass and then love the feeling that it is there in the fridge all week, might only have half the bottle during the week, but I enjoy the feeling it is there waiting for me if I want it....if I do that with my DH the bottles gone that night even if it's my favourite wine and one he doesn't like that much!

Hatti I think the driving thing gets more complicated as even when there aren't your own children in the car with him, there are other people's children walking to school or whatever and anyone could get caught up in your DP's accident. I don't know what you do about that - it's not your responsibility, I'm not saying that, but he shouldn't be out there driving at all if he's been heavily drinking the night before.

My DH has got this message, but then he gets the bus to work so easy to avoid the problem. He also knows he can't drive on the weekend if he's been drinking but I'm afraid rather than say to him at the time, I often say I feel sick/headachy so need to drive myself I just find arguing with him when he is hungover is crap and he can turn from being quietly grumpy to being aggressive really quickly. If the kids are around, I do little things like this to avoid conflict which I know is wrong but it is easiest.

I wonder if it is more habit than anything - not physiological need but psychological habit in my DH. So he came home last night very sober and when I commented on this he said he didn't feel like drinking much, just had water with the meal and then a couple of pints afterwards. Maybe things will slow down this week as I can tell he's tired from his sleep being rubbish and not feeling great, so I might plan to get some good soft drinks in and suggest an early bath together once kids are in bed tonight as a distraction.

Come back and share your thoughts ificouldundothepast if you feel able.

Great distraction ideas windows. Hopefully, it is just a habit, in which case it takes about 3 weeks to change it and develop some healthier habits - take time to appreciate the good things about moments of not drinking (you you the "Ahh tea, the best drink of the day"). Having a really nice selction of soft drinks is a great idea, eating strong peppermints (wine tastes horrid afterwards), and doing things that keep you occupied physically and mentally.

OK venus 3 weeks? that sounds good. Definitely worth trying a few things for that time period to see if a change can be made. I like the idea of getting 3 weeks of good sex for starters!

Actually I like the idea of an absence of crankiness for 3 weeks even more!

"WHat he does on weekdays is his own affair, as it only him in the car. I have told him if he wishes to kill himself, through destroying his liver or by wrapping his car round a tree, thats his lookout"

This comment made me go cold. I know of someone who actually got into a car when drunk and alone and drove off. He was involved in an accident and two people died as a result. He walked away uninjured.

You ladies need to remember the 3cs re alcoholism and some of you are definately trying to control your man's drinking. It will not work and you need to consider too that you could well be enabling these men (many women in these situations end up as their partner's enabler). If you are at this stage then you have serious problems and Al-anon could provide you with support.

The 3cs re alcoholism:-

1. You did not cause it
2. You cannot control it
3. You cannot cure it

Attila - Do you think I'm deeply in denial? (it's a genuine question) H is drinking much less these days but it is something that is on my mind fairly often. I still feel a bit anxious when he arrives back with a bottle of wine for fear that he will get drunk and beligerent (spelling).
I've also found myself feeling angry that I can't just go and get wine when ever I feel like it as it is sort of 'allowing' him to drink that evening. My drinking is perhaps a glass, he always finishes the bottle for me and I know that he can get agitated (not every time) if I have more than just the one glass - as it means less for him.
At the same time, he hasn't been drinking excessively recently, so I'm wondering if I am trying to make out his drinking to be worse than it is?

Atilla,it makes me go cold too. :( But in trying to control it,Im breaking al-anon rules. I cannot control it. So I have made it clear to him that I do not approve, but it is his choice. He has to take responsibility for his own drinking.

Believe me, I have considered hiding his keys, calling the police, but each of this actions has an enabler function within them.

By buying the brethaliser, I have given him the tool he needs to make a decision. I cannot make the decision for him. I think the shock factor of realising that he IS over the limit the next morning has slowed him down on weekdays- he still drinks Fri/Sat nights, but tends not to on other nights -or at least restricts himself to 5-10units, which he can sleep off and be clear in themorning. Since 1 Jan, he has a drink 3 nights a week, which is progress.

But I cant get sucked into monitoring his drinking any more. If Im honest, I do, but I dont comment.

I find it so hard, as a moderate drinker. I totally empathise with Sarsaparilllla re liking the odd glass yourself but feeling you cannot have one because he wont be able to control himself.

Over the weekend, if I want more than one glass of wine, I have to drink up,because he will be half way down a second bottle before Ive finished my first glass.

Anyway, I know I sound blase about letting him kill himself,but those who have walked amile in my shoes will/may understand.

So how do you really know if it is habit or if it's alcoholism? Just time is it? I try really hard to do as few enabling behaviours as possible but am conflicted too about this so torn between not leaving my DH to lie in after a session so he can't avoid his responsibility to our children, but his mood is much better after a lie in and me and the children benefit from this.