How does he manage to do this?

[forbetterorworse]

My ex was/is and alcoholic (I believe) though he doesn't.

He drinks every night. He spends thousands on doing so.

When we were together he was unfaithful, abusive. He spent £1000's on drink and prostitutes, family money. He drank every night for years and would wet himself on our furniture almost nightly, usually I would have to clean it up.

This week he went on another two day bender and spent every penny he has, he even pawned items he owns to get more money for drink.

He is now demanding that I lend him my computer equipment, tv etc as he was the one who paid for them in the first place (before he left). He says I am mean and selfish, mad, need to see a doctor, need to put my dc first, because I never do (absolute fucking bullshit!!). Once again he managed to get me to engage and I have spent the afternoon sending defensive text messages in response to his accusatory abusive texts.

He and his family maintain that he DOES NOT have a drink problem, I am uptight and probably caused it anyway because I made him so unhappy, in fact I made it worse by kicking him out and how dare I do that, I should give him our home and move out with dc wtf?!?. Funny thing is though they have all f*cked off and left me to it. His parents live abroad and his other family members are not interested. So it is basically me dealing with this alcoholic man on a regular basis. When he lived here the police were called, the came here to check his "bail" address various other stuff that I won't go into here. Life was chaotic and horrendous and every morning I would wake up not knowing what I would find when I opened the living room door, I always got up early to prevent the kids from finding him like that.

I feel like I am never going to be free of this man. Sometimes I even wonder if he is right and I am a mean, money grabbing evil bitch and I made him this way. I HAD to throw him out, our lives were chaotic and I couldn't stand my kids to get used to this kind of thing and just accept this is how people behave.

I feel like emailing his parents and telling them in no uncertain terms to get back and sort their son out, I HAVE my OWN children to deal with, I can't deal with him anymore.

Sorry this is so long but I despair I will ever be free of this man. Have filed for divorce and that is all in process, but even then I can't see myself being free of him and the things he says to me.

Shameless bump, sorry it is o long

Really, you know it's him, not you; it's all about the drink.

As for what he has a right to demand from the house, I take it if you've filed for divorce you have a legal adviser? Run it past them. And do try to deal with the ex through them, as well, even if it does cost a bit more doing it that way. Next time you get a spate of accusatory texts, just say he should deal with your solicitor/representative. DO NOT answer him yourself. It's a total waste of energy. He's only going to spout a lot of rubbish anyway, and your reply is irrelevant as it's not going to convince him of anything. He isn't interested in listening to reason or facts, he just wants more money for drink. You, on the other hand, have children to look after, so you can't give in to his demands. Perhaps you can explore taking out an injunction to stop him harassing you?

It doesn't matter what his stupid family believe, either. Unfortunately you can't force them to give a #### what happens to you or their grandchildren. Maybe they'll shape up, maybe they won't, but in any case what they say about it does not make it true. The police know the truth, for a start.

Sounds like a horrible situation to be in.

I know it's not a solution, but I wouldn't respond to any abusive texts that he sends. Can you change your number?

Crossed with realrabbit

Thanks for replies. Thought I was going get the dreaded zero reply situation there for a while.

Not really got anything else to say. I am going to try my absolute best not to get pulled in, it is so hard though. I never understood how awful alcoholism can be. The complete lack of care and respect the person who is drinking displays for so called loved ones. He doesn't seem to love anyone, although he claims he adores his kids, yes that is why you spend 1000s that could be spent on them on booze, that is why you disappear and don't contact them for days at a time when you are off on one.

He comes to see them most days, except when drinking so I have to see a lot of him. Just so bloody hard .

Sorry - wish I had more to say but I just have very little experience of alcoholics (at least in my immediate family) so am not sure how it can best be dealt with.

The general impression you get is that until someone admits they have a problem, they are never going to get themselves sorted out, but I don't know how you are meant to get on with a normal life in the meantime, other than not having to see him (which is where supervised contact could come in).

Had same prob...I went to Al Anon...took a while but really helped. you get a 'sponsor' who will support you, xx good luck xx

YOu might find it helpful to go to AL-Anon, this is the support organisation for the families of alcoholics, not for the alcoholics themselves.
THis man is not your problem and it shouldn't be too difficult to get anti-harassment orders against him to keep him away from you.

Thank you. Am going to contact Al-Anon to be honest it has been recommended before but I just didn't have the energy to pursue it. I looked up the thread on here for partners of addicts and that was very helpful though I didn't post. The same stories time and time again. Another bit of advice I read was not to even try to defend myself as if anything it will just make the situation worse and is utterly pointless anyway.

Your story sounds depressingly familiar.

I'm in the same situation and also struggling not to engage and not to get sucked into the pointless text messages exchanges.

So no advice I'm afraid but loads of sympathy.
It's so draining an soul destroying to deal with this shit day in and out.

farmazon have you managed to leave him?

My ex gave me some money at the end of last year when he got a work bonus and maintains that this is why I should now subsidise the fact that he is skint through drinking until he gets paid again. I was actually feeling like a twunt this morning for not lending him my stuff and some money to see him through on the grounds of the money given last year until my Mum helpfully pointed out that ex actually left me in over £10k worth of debt when he left and the money that he gave me last year didn't even cover a tiny percentage of what I am paying off. This had not even occurred to me. This how much he screws with my head.

Definitely contact Al Anon. You are not to blame and you are NOT responsible for this man. Good luck.

defensive text messages in response to his accusatory abusive texts.

attack, attack and then attack
that will shut him up

all the time you defend he has you on the back foot - attack and say where is all the money he pissed up the wall through your marriage? whilst everyone else went hungry he pissed him self away.

he wants the equipment so he can pawn and get drink - simple

or ignore ignore ignore - but he will not then go away and he will keep attacking you as you are easy prey - sorry

tbf I would get another phone and not let him have the number - turn your phone off and let him text to his hearts content - you don't then have to see his shit and he will not have your new number, he may then get bored

You haven't said if you have actually split up permenantly, or whether you were married, or if you have legal advice. Could you fill us in a bit?
Obviously if you lend him your stuff he will sell to get money for booze, so don't even think about it. I assume he doesn't have a key to your house.

Yes split up permanently, solicitor on the case, we were married. No key to the house but regularly threatens to move back in! That is why I am now hustling divorce through so tenancy will be awarded to one of us in court, most likely me as I am main carer.

ivykaty, I disagree. In response to accusatory text messages from a drunk the best thing is silence. Don't apologise, don't defend, don't explain.

Think of it this way - imagine you're walking down your local high street. There's a some random drunken tramp staggering in circles and shouting obscenities at passers-by. Is it best to try to out-shout them, or just to walk past and leave them to their delusions?

forbetterorworse, if you don't respond to his provocations then eventually he'll get bored, go off and find someone else's life to blight. You owe him nothing. If you lend him anything then that will just mean you have to talk to him to try to get it back. So don't do it. If he needs a computer he can use the one in the library.

Anything you can do to minimise your involvement with him will help. I'd also strongly consider changing the contact arrangements so he's not turning up at your house so often.

This and the thread titled ?Do you monitor/try and change your partner's drinking?? in the relationship section are without doubt the two most interesting threads I have read on MN in the last two years and will be keeping a watchful eye.

Forbetterorworse: I am concerned with your opening statement ?My ex was/is an alcoholic (I believe) though he doesn't.? You need to separate alcohol dependency from alcoholism and the many degrees in-between. I have known two people to have died from chronic alcoholism and many with various degrees of alcohol dependency including myself. It is a subject matter that greatly interests me. I could discuss Al Anon, AA, Detox Units, the genetic connection and my favourite Amino Acids and the role of the hypothalamus and pituitary gland which is bury deep in the brain and it connection with alcohol dependency/alcoholism. My ex likes to tell me I am an Alcoholic and she is extremely educated but just makes me angry because if she had studied it in-depth she would not say it. My mother likes to tell me I am an alcoholic and she is a silly old mo who can?t string a decent sentence together and drinks several boxes of wine a week along with beers!!

Alcohol is a sedative and it reduces stress but it?s also a drug of dependence, and people turn to it to relieve their stress and the problem becomes compounded very quickly. To the ladies out there with issues with their partners drinking I suggest you look at the larger picture and identify the stresses before it takes hold and then have real conversations [read that to mean not nagging which is a word I detest] without being on what I call the merry-go-round of blame and poor me.

Last year I spent three months in the country side and did not drink once. When I came back to London and still dealing with the stress of the emotional fall out of a relationship that I did not want to end plus the just living in this unfriendly, unforgiving city I did start to drink again. I have decided to stop for a year as I have a business to build and not allow the stress of my failed relationship pull me down. I feel for my ex as she is so stressed and cannot see it but neither is she approachable and thus no real conversations so off it goes again on the merry-go-round of blame and poor me. Perhaps if more couples spent some time on the swings [solitude and reflection] the divorce rate in this country would not be so high.

To the original poster if your ex has now become incontinent of a night time and more importantly does not appear to be embarrassed by it he is at the extreme end of alcohol dependency. He is strongly advised to seek help for his addiction. But for the moment please don?t refer to him as an alcoholic but perhaps someone who is alcohol dependant and needs help to overcome this part of his life. Your tag name gives it away.

Abusive texts are wrong. I have sent them and always when I read them the next day I am full of remorse. But what I will tell you is that they are not sent to hurt but more a cry for intimacy as they are losing control and alcohol does exasperate the situation. ?? To be continued?..
Ladies I have just had a call to say my truck is ready so will end this posting now as the work shop closes at five thirty. However, I will be back this evening to give my insight into what I consider to be real issues. Namely the replies to the OP; I will discuss WD24 forms, the Police, Harassment Orders, Solicitors and communication from my perspective as a man on what are real problems out there that both us guys and girls need to address.

There are no clear and universally agreed differences between "alcoholic" and "alcohol dependent". "Alcoholic" to some people means someone who is so drunk so often that they cannot function at all. "Alcoholic" to someone else is someone who can go for days without a drink but who, when they do drink, finds it hard to stop.

To be frank, I don't see that such sophistry makes any substantive difference. Alcohol is a drug. Some people get addicted to it. Whether you call that addiction "alcoholism", "alcohol dependence" or "being a piss-head" is immaterial.

If you've got an unhealthy relationship with alcohol such as being unable to reliably control how much you drink or drinking so much and so regularly it's screwing up your life and harming the people around you, you've got a problem whatever you or other people choose to call it. More importantly, it is the responsibility of the person with the problem to fix it or not. It's their life and their choice.

ificouldundo - to quote your mother, you are an alcoholic.

op, why are you engaging with this man at all? you have left him, yet you still seem to be his carer, or think you are. if you're waiting for him to take responsibility, which will release you from your obligations, you'll be waiting a long time. he doesn't love ANYBODY - he's already got his lover, whom he is besotted with; who never lets him down and never gives him a hard time (the smelly old booze of course). who gives a shit what his family think tbh, you have to care for you and yours, which is why you kicked him out in the first place.

al-anon, pronto. also coda (codependents anonymous) sounds like a good port of call for you. you'll meet a mass of people like yourself which is in itself a relief. they also won't let you get away with the 'i HAVE to clear up the piss on my sofa' stuff (not that you do anymore but you're still doing similar stuff only once-removed)

Snorbs: Completely disagree with paragraph one in your latest posting. Sentence two in paragraph two is completely correct though. However, you are missing the point entirely in my humble opinion.

A label is, when attach, has far reaching consequences. It can affect your self-esteem and change the direction your life takes. ?Alcoholic? is a very emotive term. It is always associated with negative thinking. Try saying ?you are an alcoholic? In the context of a personal relationship setting that is having difficulties and it is impossible to say warmly and with a smile. There is an under tone of aggression. You may think I am nit picking but assure you I am not and will come to the point shortly.

When you attend an AA meeting and wish to speak the only words spoken are ?My name is John Doe and I am an alcoholic.? The group then nods towards John and say hello John in unison. Read that to mean this is the start of the labelling process. What is never said is ?My name is John Doe and I have become dependent on alcohol.? The script does not allow it.

I knew a man who had been alcohol free for thirty-one years and still went to a meeting every day. When he was stressed he went three times a day. I asked him once why and he told me because he had been labelled an alcoholic. It had a profound impact on his life.

I have known people who have been alcohol dependant and were clearly troubled by it and after attending an AA meeting found the label to repugnant and it hindered there progress. Yet the same people, without the label, were able to abstain for a year whilst they reassess where they were at in life and then revert back to normal drinking patterns.

Those who are worried about their partners drinking I strongly advise not to label them an alcoholic as they will dig their heels in but try the other approach and you will see quicker results.

Humanheart: The first line really shows the limited grey matter you are bringing to this discussion. The rest just shows that you are very much on the merry-go-round of blame and poor me. Can?t see how it can help the OP.

If more couples stayed off the merry-go-round and had real conversations without the blaming they would get their lives back on tract.

Ificouldundo: the point you seem to be missing is that a person's issues with alcohol are that person's problem. Not anyone else's. It's no one else's responsiblity to forgive or indulge or look after the problem drinker if they've had enough or (if as is usually the case) they are suffering due to the problem drinker's problem drinking, whether that's having their furniture pissed on or being bombarded with whiny texts in the middle of the night.
If you drink too much it's your fault. No one else's. Deal with it or don't, but other people have the right to disengage from you completely if that's what they feel is best for them.

undo - your posts are a classic case of the endless denial that alcoholics (that's ALCOHOLICS) indulge in, boring everyone half to death. your posts should be lifted and used as study guides in AA and Al-Anon groups. not that I read through them - YAWN

StuffingGoldBrass: I agree with every point that you have made but you are missing the point about labelling and the problems that come with it. Moreover, a lot of people drink to excess and usually it is because they are not addressing other aspects in their lives and the use of the word alcoholic hinders them from moving forward. I am suggesting that if people approach their partners drinking issues from a different starting point there would be more win/win situations all round.

It's not the label that inhibits recovery, it's the going on drinking.