dd loathes me

[humanheart]

does 'relationships' include relationships with our kids?

dd is 25 and almost phobic about me. i can't understand why we can't just get on (but maybe I'm talking rubbish here). I'm not sure what to do as she constantly sets me up (I walk into it every time) and has a profound hatred for me. she knows what to do to cause me maximum pain and, as she sets the traps that I walk into each time, she looks the injured party. she has hurt me very much indeed - can't go into detail - yet her campaign shows no sign of abating: it looks like this is a pattern for life and she needs to scapegoat me in order to feel settled in herself. that may be ok for the short term but it definitely isn't ok for the long term - for either her or me.

she is psychologically vulnerable and now and again pulls out the "I'm going to kill myself" card. It is impossible not to respond as that is a terrifying prospect to me as a mother. I know she's got me dangling on the end of a piece of string but I have no idea how to alter the dynamic. I am dragged this way and that, she infects a wide circle with her hatred (of me), constantly setting me up. It seems that the only thing I can do to minimise the damage is to bow to her demands. I haven't so far but the pressure is unrelenting and I am getting ragged (though often resolute and ok too, not ultimately bowed by it), not to mention lacking in support (thin on the ground) as I do so look like the villain a lot of the time.

God I thought you were my Mum reading this at first, I am 25 and hate my mother. But have never threatened to kill myself so not me!

What was your relationship like before now? How long has this been going on? Who else is in family, how does she get on with them?

What about her other parent? Now that there are lots of Dads on MN, I didn't want to assume you are Mum.

TBH, with not so much info, help is limited, but I wanted to post in order to support.

Please give me some insight giraffe into what it's like for you as the hater of her mother! I just don't get it tbh. I remember despising my mother but this is altogether different. While dd was growing up our relationship was intense which I found uncomfortable but she was high maintenance. I am a SP, she has 2 younger male siblings. Her dad (exH) was controlling and abusive and I left him becaue of it. He died suddenly 4 years ago (which is probably when the trouble btwn me and dd really started). Ex has become a saint in everybody's eyes and I simply can't go along with that, though keep mostly quiet. If anybody's been a saint in all this then frankly it's me. sometimes I think I've been too good and it's too easy for her to dump her shit on me. she is INCENSED that I won't take it. should I? for now?

Hi humanheart.

If the trouble started when your ex had died, then maybe there is something to do with this? Did she know that he was abusive? Was he like this to you in front of her? At what age was your DD when you split from him?

I don't have much of a relationship with my mother now. This is due to the way she treated me when I was little, which she denies. But one thing I always remember that really angered me about my mother was how she use to always go on about my father's flaws and making nasty comments about him (he left when I was 7). I was a "daddy's girl", so it really bothered me.

She is 25. That reads: Adult. Why do you feel you owe her anything at this point?

She is emotionally abusing you.
Perhaps abandonment issues? Who can tell? A counselor could.

Suicide threat: Call it in! You are not responsible for her. If she does suicide, it is not your fault. If she were serious, she wouldn't be talking about it. As a manipulation tool, she'll drop it like a hot potato if she has to go through the -what? 72 hour?-examination/observation rescue by the professionals.

The answer is make yourself scarce. Then she'll have to target someone else. And will eventually.

Anyone that has seen the dynamic she plays for even five minutes would not blame you for your decision.

Your situation sounds just like my sister and my Mum.

In the end my Mum just said I'm sorry I can't do this any more and cut all contact.

After 2 years apart they have a relationship but my Mum has put some very firm ground rules in place. Sister breaks them and contact is cut for good.

Basically your daughter is going to carry on behaving like this because you let her and there are no consequences to her actions.

oh stuffed bears - her 'doing' suicide would mean she was dead. I love her, I don't want her dead. couldn't care less whose fault it would be, mine or anybody else's - just don't want her dead! I agree that she is emotionally abusing me. what to do about it though? Yes, thought of making myself scarce - would like to. how though? sorry to be dim but find it hard to get my head around. She has a big effect on her siblings and the family at large. if I cut her off (though would never totally cut her off - just woulnd't) it would mean me out in the cold ie would polarise relationships within the family. As I said, I look like the villain here (as I did in my marriage, oddly enough) and comments from my family are critical of me, not her. I don't have any support from my family, who think I should just take it and always be there supporting her. I'm not mother theresa - she's done me a lot of harm.

we have talked endlessly - once all night, as she was threatening suicide - and these 'talks' go nowhere tbh. the bottom line is that she wants me to be her scapegoat I guess and won't tolerate anythng else. her childhood was difficult, mainly because of abusive ex (and me being half-baked as a result) (whom I left when she was little, but he never did get out my orbit, mainly because he was determined and wealthy) but I tried my best to tackle what was an almost impossible situation and think I did well in the circumstances. I have (repeatedly) said i am sorry for the things i got wrong (I certainly did) and I am loving and supportive. however, I am now saying that it is time for her to take up her own life as her life is not mine to live, but hers to live re I will support her but it is for her to live her own life and face her own difficulties etc. She experiences high levels of anxiety which is almost a handicap. But it seems that whatever I do is not good enough, that the only thing she wants and obsessively aims for is that I will sit quietly in the scapegoat seat and take the blame for her... pain.

that sounds so simplistic doesn't it? all yous who have difficult relationships with your mothers may bridle at what I'm saying. But I can't see as I can do any more than I have done. I have tried to see things from her perspective, I have apologised when I can see that I got some fundamental things wrong (which I did) though have also pointed out the things I got spectacularly right (as it happens lol). I can't say her dad was wonderful and it was all my fault because that is one step too far and anyway I wouldn't be such a liar. It seems to hinge on her dad tbh. He was charm itself (as abusers often are) and I am not exactly blessed in the charm department (probably bcs I loathe charm, probably as a result of her dad but also my personality type - spade a spade etc, bit blunt).

I don't expect a medal but I also don't expect to be vilified and abused to my dying day, which she would if things carry on the way they are. grow up! i want to say. you are an adult, shit happens - PLENTY of shit has happened to me - and you just get on.

hh, is she the eldest of your dcs?

It basically sounds like she is pain and hurting and you are the closest/easiest person to dump this on. The fact that she can talk to you "all night" suggests that she feels very close to you in a way.

You sounds like you are responding very well to her...you just might need to get a bit tougher and point out to her what you said in your post of 14.48.

My guess is she doesn't hate you. She needs some help, that's all. What kind of help has she had so far? Counselling? mentors? Does she study/work? What's the rest of her life like?

HH, it is the ultimate challenge-dealing with someone using suicide as a threat...because we don't know if they mean it. That is why calling emergency services is the thing to do. If she is serious then you are getting her the help she needs which is beyond what you can offer. If she is not sincere, calling ES will be in effect 'calling her bluff' and should be a lesson to not do that again.

Of course you do not want her dead. No one does. But how much of your mental health are you willing to sacrifice to supply her emotionally abusive needs?

You say you can not physically disconnect from her...and for whatever reasons that is your choice to make. However, I strongly suggest that you begin to emotionally disconnect from her or you will end up needing counseling more than she does.

Sorry my previous post sounded so preachy.
I think, imho, you could start by thinking/believing that her rage isn't about you, it is all about her. That might help you depersonalize the 'transactions' and help you be less hurt by them.

Good luck! Read up on emotional abuse, keep a journal, and really think about these circumstances before you respond to her.

HH

I'm so saddened by this thread. I HATED my mother for many many years when in my late teens/early twenties.

I blamed her for making my father leave when I was 2.5. He was shgging a 15yr old so quite rightly, my mother showed him the door.

I had a brief disfunctional relationship with him, he felt obliged to see his 2 daughters for a short while.

Then nothing for a long time now.

My mother gave up her life as she knew it when her marriage collapsed. She adn we went without a lot of basic things as we grew up. Maybe that's why I hated her?

She remarried when I was 9 and I threatened to run away from home. The next few years were awful as my step dad tried his best to parent me.

I can tell you that now (I'm 36) we have a wonderful relationship. We talked a few years back, creid and I apologised fpr all that I put her and my wonderful step dad through.

When I got married, my real father didn't trun up. My step dad gave me away. I asked him and only him to.

So, why is your DD doing this? Huge flag is her father dying for me. Did she have counselling when it happened?

Did she have support from other family memebers at that time?

Do you think she blames you at all?

To me, she's pushing you and pushing you to the very edge, waiting for you to break.

Why?

I'm so glad you said what you did about her suicide threats. Don't call her on it, please. She needs help. You both need support with this.

Whatever this is.

Sorry for massive 'me me me' post.

Sorry for the typos too, didn't check before I posted.

Humanheart, if you take one son away, your story is my story, but I'm earlier along.

When you left their dad, did you expect more from her? Did you mother her less and just shout at her to get dressed/undressed/do homework etc...

I have a terrible relationship with my dd because I think I forced her to grow up too quick. I literally couldn't cope with two small children when there was only one of me and I was always yelling at her to do something I was doing for her younger sibling. So unfair I know. But I was 'this' close to unravelling for years.

She probably knows deep down that her controlling father was no saint.... but she can't be angry with him. I have said to my dd 'well ask your father for the money then' if she's looking for an expensive gadget and she goes quiet then because she knows that he would remove his eyes and stirfry them before he would hand over any cash. As poor as we are it is me she asks for things from.... She's not blind, and she's a lot younger than your dd.

omg HH, just read your second post. My x was Cliff Richard in a suit, but 25 years younger, charming everybody but controlling his family.

I know I am going to face what you're going through one day and my plan is to say that I was very, very unhappy with their father and the fact that he wouldn't share his money with me (no joint account) left me with no option but to relocate. I expect to be 'judged' for this one day, but like you, I feel I had no choice. If I hadn't removed us all from that environment we'd all be insane and totally damaged by now.

You did what you had to do, and maybe this is your daughter's crisis. Life is long and comes in stages. I agree with the other posters who say that although she blames you for 'everything' she also feels close to you. YOU are her crutch. Maybe she hates that she needs you AND blames you.

Val

It's weird, even though OP's daughter is 25 and mine is only 8, there are similarities. Mine follows me from room to room to tell me I'm ugly, she hates me, I'm mean. She sits on my knee telling me she hates me. She sometimes hits me while sitting on my knee.

I wonder is this the legacy of life after leaving a controlling man?????? Is the mother always to blame from everything from the price of fish to the country's debt from here on in??? because she is there?

It's just heartbreaking to hear how it makes you feel as a mother.

I wish I'd known that when I hated my mother.

So I hate my mother and my father...

and this is why:

Growing up, she told my other siblings that I was never to be spoken to (I was the oldest child). When she started leaving me with questionable relatives and they took the chance at abusing me (they would take off my clothes and beat me with a wire clothes hanger) she didn't seem to care. I would beg her not to leave me with them, and in the end I had no choice. I would be pulled out of her car and and left. I would show her and my father the scars when I was home (this happened until I was about 8-9 years old) my mother would shrug her shoulders and say "Maybe you deserved it." My dad would stay silent and tell me not to tell tales.

We moved away from those relatives, but only for me to suffer other abuses. When I got to be 10 years old, my parents would go away for weeks at a time leaving me with my 5 yr old brother and twin 3 yr old sisters. I remember feeling guilty locking the door behind me when I would leave my sisters in the play pen with nothing both bottles of milk.

As I hit my teens and my parents returned I decided to take up religion and hide behind God (mainly for hope/some sort of comfort) and boy did my mother and father use that against me too. My mother would come to my school and tell each and every one of my teachers, school administrators that I beat her. My father claimed I was sleeping around with the religious figures of my community. By the time I had turned 18, I realized that I had never ever had one single friend. Not ONE friend.

I went to University and found peace for the first time. I then learned that my life was not normal. I hate my parents. I could care less if they died.

Mouseface, did you hate your mum because you saw her as a martyr or because you just didn't have 'nice stuff'. Which bit of it bothered you iykwim?

I really don't know Val

I should've adored her for making sure we were safe and loved.

But something in me didn't compute that. I hated her. And I think that until I got into a serious relationship, it was because 'she had made my dad go away'

Then, once I understood more about how relationships work, I felt really bad and started to rebuild the relationship with her and accept my step dad.

I guees I felt cheated. Especially as I was the minority at school, were as these days, being a single parent or divorced/remarried, is more the norm.

And I believe that I threw DD's father out because he too was a lying, cheating rat.

I was on my own with DD for 6 years and that suited me just fine. I was thiry when I met DH, never married before that because it never felt 'for real'

DD adores DH. They have a very happy relationship. Now.

It took a while for her to get over it not being just us IYSWIM?

Anywa, off to cook, will be back.

Sorry - typos. Bit emotional.

eandz - that's truly terrible. But there's no sign the OP is an abuser. Quite the reverse.

I think your DD has learned from your XH how to abuse. Google parent abuse.

HH - I have had a similar situation. I was also mum in abusive relationship and when the relationship ended (my instigation) the DC turned against me.

We have had counselling. Joint and separate. expensive and I can't afford it but it has helped.

Basically DC love Dad and need Dad to be the perfect Dad that they want. I confront their denial about their Dad by a) divorce b) facts repeated verbally

Consequence of that confrontation is hate of me because they cannot control anything else in that equation unless they stop loving their Dad.

So...... counsellor talked about boundaries. Ex abused mine and my DC tbh

I have now set boundaries around my behaviour. Discussing ex is off limits. I try and hide my feelings in front of them. I have also had a couple of occasions when I've snapped and said enough is enough! (when they cross those boundaries) I have said do not talk to me or tell me your version unless you wish to hear mine.

I am pretty sure my DC love me deeply but both went through a patch of hating me because love and hate are so close at times.

It's ok to show you love her but not OK to tolerate nastiness from her. it's important you show her a good relationship. Having been abused you may struggle with that unless you have counselling

If you have lived with an abuser, and had long term dealings as you have, your family becomes dysfunctional, you said you struggled for years when your children were younger, did you go and get some help from your gp to deal with your codependancy issues? It sounds like you have boundary issues, I would go and focus on yourself for a bit and if you change your relationship with your dd may change and she may get the mother she is despirate for. Your dd sounds like she has been hurt very much by the abuse, divorce, coparenting difficulties, your breakdown and her father's death, it is not surprising that she is struggling now as a result, I feel very sorry for her, she was an innocent victim.