Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relate can't perform miracles, can they.

68 replies

myrubicon · 20/01/2011 09:09

I dont know where to start. I just need some help. DW admitted to an affair - emotional and physical. I am in agony. we have young children. There is so very much i want to write but I'm not capable of that now. i don't know why but i booked a telephone session with relate. Please, can someone tell me they will make it better.

OP posts:
myrubicon · 24/01/2011 10:27

NAFM - don't worry, I know alcohol doesn't help. The children have never seen me drunk and I'm not about to change that. I just needed to escape, somewhere between hurting myself and comforting myself. (But I was quite impressed with myself, in addition to wine & G&T I clobbered a full bottle of scotch!).

I don't see the benefit of an interim step either. Not yet anyway. I can't see what it would acheive.

OP posts:
myrubicon · 24/01/2011 10:50

By the way, WWIFN:

"If a woman cannot with any conviction delude herself that she is unhappy in her marriage, there is a tendency to exaggerate her feelings for her affair partner and convince herself that she wouldn't be doing this if she were not in love. "

  • This is the closest to the excuse I've heard from her.
OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 24/01/2011 10:54

One of the things I have learnt is that everyone is vulnerable to temptation and that we under-estimate that vulnerability, in either our partner our ourselves, at our peril. Hence, good people have affairs and it doesn't help our understanding of a human problem, if we demonise people and cast them as villains or heroes.

There are hundreds of examples on this board alone of people who say that they could never imagine becoming "that person" who lied, deceived and cheated and that their behaviour was aberrant to their core values. More still, who have partners saying the same. When an affair is discovered, one of the most difficult parts is that there are shattered assumptions about the spouse's basic character and values.

It is true that there are definite character and personality traits that make someone more likely to give themselves permission to have an affair - and infidelity never happens in a vacuum. Hence if someone has always been a bit selfish, conflict-avoidant or unwilling to take responsibility for their feelings, expressing dissatisfaction in passive-aggressive ways, being unfaithful is less of a leap. All of these factors are individual vulnerabilities, not relational.

If someone has previously defined their esteem by their attractiveness to the opposite sex, this is also an individual vulnerability.

Then there are lifestyle vulnerabilities, that impact on one's own beliefs and permission-giving processes, as well as the relationship. Someone who spends lots of time with people (friends and colleagues) who are tolerant of infidelity, secrets and lies, will often notice their own personal values shifting accordingly.

When an infidelity is undiscovered and the consequences of hurt not felt, it is true that as the taboo has gone, it is likely that a person will be unfaithful again. Similarly, if a discovered infidelity is swept under the carpet and the real reasons for it remain undiagnosed, there is a significant chance it will happen again.

If however, a couple takes a more holistic approach to why this happened and the unfaithful party especially, takes full responsibility for the changes she needs to make to herself and the lifestyle that permitted her infidelity, your wife is likely to be much less vulnerable to infidelity than most people. She will know her own personal triggers and vulnerabilities and will know what to do if they occur again. The taboo becomes even greater than it was pre-affair.

It really isn't true that once a cheater, always a cheater.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 24/01/2011 10:58

Ah, we cross-posted.

The "excuse" really doesn't surprise me, but to help me unravel this more, it would help to know what your wife's feelings are for the OM now? Is she surprised that they have lessened and he has proved easy to give up, or is she ambivalent?

myrubicon · 24/01/2011 11:27

I'm going to have to send you a Boden gift voucher, aren't I?! I must be feeling better because I am punctuating now..

Your first 2 para.s are a wakeup call to my having been unrealstic and naive all this time. I can cope with that. It helps. Not a pleasant or easy realisation though.

"...infidelity never happens in a vacuum". I need to think about one too. Interesting phrase.

I can only answer your last question based on what she has said, but ambivalence is definitely not wherr she's at. Remorse & guilt, plus a massive surge in energy at the relief of feelng able to be her unbudened self with me. So she is approaching closure and re-engagement.

Last contact with OM was last Friday (10 days ago). There is a key fact I have omitted here: It ended some time ago. She & OM repeatedly tried to call it off, but ended up being unable to & went back to each other. His house, mainly. They said they love each other. I don't know what was said / texted 10 days ago. I really do think it is over now (hopes like hell he's right), but that somehow doesn't seem enough. I don't mean I want her to suffer any more. She has been through her own personal hell for 2-3 years. Now it's my turn.

Here's another fact - she is reading these posts @ work. Not sure why I mention that. She thought MN was all about Friday Bumsex threads, virtual coffee mornings, and polling for answers about which colour Aga to get. Good morning, darling... welcome to MN.

OP posts:
Roisinniamh · 24/01/2011 11:31

How long did the affair last?
Do you know 'him'?
Does she still 'think' she loves him?

myrubicon · 24/01/2011 11:38

I lasted a year or so. Longer if you include the emotional engagement. Which I do.

Yes, I know him.

I don't think she still loves him. If there are residual feelings, I don't know what they are.

I really need to get on with things around the house now. Have done sod all today. Would prefer to stay online but needs must.

OP posts:
myrubicon · 24/01/2011 11:42

Just realised that my MN name is appropriate all over again! I originally chose it because I had a big decision to make re SAHD, and the initials were MR, meaning I'm a dad not a mum. Hey Ho.

OP posts:
Katisha · 24/01/2011 11:42

If I can just chip in with a couple of things that are ringing alarm bells :

  1. You say you knew within 5 minutes that you "needed" to spend you life with her. That may be marvellously romantic but it's not necessarily healthy.
  1. You gave up a 150k job "for her". Ditto.

I know you are in the first throes of grief over all this but you sound as if you have placed all responsibility for your emotional wellbeing with your wife from the word go? Maybe she can't handle that?

  1. Don't start publicly using MN as a way of "talking" to her - it always ends in (yet more) tears...
myrubicon · 24/01/2011 11:45

WWIFN - your para ending 'The taboo becomes even greater than it was pre-affair' is possibly apposite here. I hope.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 24/01/2011 11:50

I'm really glad your wife is reading this thread and I also have more understanding now of the stage you are at.

When someone is involved in an affair, their understanding of it is blurred. There is often much more clarity about what happened, from a distance. This is why it is essential for an unfaithful party to understand the affair herself and yet, so often it is the faithful partner driving the agenda and trying to gain understanding himself. The goal in these situations is for your wife to conclude that she would never do this to herself again, let alone you or your marriage. Infidelity damages the unfaithful person terribly and it is often overlooked in recovery.

If your wife has come to you of her own volition to disclose her affair, there is significant hope for recovery. She is in effect giving you an enormous gift, although it might seem like a gift you never wanted.

She did not disclose this purely to absolve herself of her own guilt and burden, although a positive side-effect is that she feels tremendously relieved that it is out in the open. She disclosed this to you, I suspect, as a sign of her re-commitment to your marriage and to you as a person. She respected you enough to let you continue your life, with all the information to make an active choice. That is a brave action.

Your wife might have concluded that your marriage was never going to reach its potential all the while there were secrets. Her guilt has probably been intruding on her perception of you as an individual and as a husband. If she felt guilt, she will have been regarding you as a victim and not as an equal partner.

Secrecy and with-holding is a very controlling behaviour and the power dynamic in your relationship has been flawed and imbalanced for the duration of this affair, which if you've seen my other posts, will be for longer than the affair itself, since there is always a build-up to an affair.

When someone is brave enough to show themselves as a flawed human being who has behaved badly, there is much more hope for recovery.

You need much more certainty however, about what she said to the OM about ending their relationship and why she was doing this. You need to know that it was her decision to end it, because if there are doubts, they will fester. For your own peace of mind, you will need to know with certainty that the right message has gone to the OM and that it is final and unambiguous. Your wife must help you with that and provide that reassurance, showing you her texts and communications with this man. If she has been ambiguous or woolly, she must follow this up now with a letter or phone call that you can see or hear, telling the OM the truth.

myrubicon · 24/01/2011 12:09

Thanks, K. That's set me back a bit. Perhaps my earlier posts were more angry and less considered? I had only just found out. I tried very hard to be balanced. Anyway:-

  1. I am not some scarily intense Absolutist. I just meant that I knew there was something very beautiful about her very quickly, and I don't simply mean looks. Yes, I used the word 'needed', when perhaps I ought to have written 'was surprised by how taken with her I was and that I somehow felt I could marry her and we would be great together'.

  2. Why alarm bells re my stopping work? For her, yes, but obvously for the greater benefit of our family as a whole.

No. My emotional wellbeing is derived from all manner of things, as are most peoples. And she knows that. I did however rely on her fidelity to cement the broader well-being. She knew that too which is why she too has suffered through this.

  1. I am doing no such thing. It is proving useful. We have talked and talked and that was painful, necessary and helpful, but we are not well placed help ourselves. Some posters here ARE well placed to help. I am learning a lot and learning fast thanks to MN. It is a personal process. For some reason I can write these posts under the guise of anonymity and get them off my chest. I showed her the thread. It is helping her. I do not yet feel able to talk to her in exactly the terms I can here.

Give me a break.

OP posts:
myrubicon · 24/01/2011 12:14

WWIFN - I desperately need to get away from the laptop, otherwise it'll be pizza for dinner!

You've no idea how helpful you are being.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 24/01/2011 12:18

Yes, me too. I'm procrastinating from writing a report I don't want to write...Smile but my perspective these days is that human beings and real life are more important than work and when I see a chance to make a difference, that will win every time.

I work better with stringent work deadlines, anyway Grin. Glad this is helping both of you.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 24/01/2011 14:22

Well, I have made much progress on my report during that interval, so stopping now for a coffee Smile....

There are two further issues I'm curious about.

In your original posts on this thread, which I always understood were written from the perspective of shock and disbelief, you mentioned that you had found a stray text. Can you tell me something about the discovery then, as I might be assuming wrongly that your wife disclosed the affair voluntarily? Having said that, if she took that opportunity to tell you everything instead of a denial, my previous post still stands.

An unintended discovery results in shock for someone in your wife's position too and it has the curious and competing effect of producing both raw honesty and further deception.

In my experience, when there is a shock discovery, an unfaithful spouse is rarely as honest as when s/he has been preparing a confession and frequently, many lies are told; some to avoid further hurt and most to reduce her own culpability. There is also a tendency to minimise aspects of the affair.

However, the shock at having to answer questions for the first time can also produce some very honest instant responses, that much later on are retracted, because they are unpalatable and the memory has faded.

In conclusion, my advice is for you to write down what your wife has been saying, while it is fresh in your memory. It is astonishing how corrupted our memories become, with time, understanding and hindsight.

Secondly, since I have already mentioned the gender politics, I think there might be an elephant in the room...or on this thread at least. You are the SAHP and gave up a well-paid career to care for your family. Is it a possibility that instead of celebrating that joint choice and respecting and valuing your role, your wife has allowed herself to be influenced by the gender expectations and her respect diminished for you accordingly?

This concept is not vastly different to the low value accorded by some working males, towards their female spouses' work in the home, but your domestic arrangements may have possibly attracted more perjorative comment from idiotic alpha male colleagues and sexist friends and family, which is another example of a lifestyle vulnerability and how the views of others can infiltrate a person's mindset.

Finally, I note your work ethic to keep the show on the road, cooking dinners from scratch and keeping everything going.

You are expecting far too much of yourself

You have heard from posters here and I would echo them, about how for some time afterwards, they could barely function. You need to cut yourself some slack here. If it helps, my H felt it was his responsibility to take over what I lacked the energy and motivation to do. It would have been inconceivable to stage a dinner party in the initial aftermath. I could just about manage to go to work and get the basics done. My H did the rest.

I would really recommend a book called Not Just Friends, by Dr. Shirley Glass. My advice here is based on her work and my own experiences. Her approach as a therapist was to apply trauma survival techniques to the shattering effects of infidelity and I think that is absolutely correct. You need to give yourself permission to recognise this as a major trauma in your life. This seems much easier for women to permit, than men (the gender politics again!) but your wife should be helping you to do this.

maandpa · 24/01/2011 20:11

Agree with everything WWIFN said.

I was physically slowed down after finding out. I felt terrible for about 2 months, before very slowly I started to feel better each day.

During this time my children and I survived on toast, peanut butter sandwiches, chocolate buttons and take away curries!!!

I felt and looked awful.

I also highly recommend Not Just Good Friends, by Dr Shirley Glass. It was a complete life saver and stopped me from going utterly mad.

The book helped understand what had happened. She takes a very positive, solution focussed approach. My husband and I found her advice and insight in to relationships so helpful.

I liked her myth busting approach too!!!

myrubicon · 26/01/2011 19:53

Back again! Sorry about the disappearing act.

I want to thank everyone for sharing their experiences and offering so much support.

Particularly to WWIFN - I'll try and keep this short: Your advice, explanations, objectivity, insight and generosity of spirit have been profoundly helpful. You may even have saved a marriage, and that is priceless. We were so far ahead and more resolved that the relate call was largely unnecessary. I don't want to run before I can walk, but the place I am in now would have been inconceivable a few days ago.

We're not completely out of the woods yet - What happened will last forever, in its own way.

I'll leave it at that for now. Have a great evening.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 27/01/2011 07:10

I'm glad it all helped myrubicon and wish you well. Do get that book though and read it together, because it is fantastic.

Do come back for support when you need it, because as you say, you are not out of the woods yet and the quest for healing and forgiveness takes a long time and cannot be rushed. You might also find yourself hitting a bit of a wall of depression once the "crisis" phase has passed, which many of us can help you with.

Good luck and keep talking to eachother. Above all, resist the urge to "get back to normal" and make sure you co-construct a shared understanding of the affair and why it happened.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page