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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relate can't perform miracles, can they.

68 replies

myrubicon · 20/01/2011 09:09

I dont know where to start. I just need some help. DW admitted to an affair - emotional and physical. I am in agony. we have young children. There is so very much i want to write but I'm not capable of that now. i don't know why but i booked a telephone session with relate. Please, can someone tell me they will make it better.

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myrubicon · 20/01/2011 17:00

i'm sorry not to have replied. Am in a rush now as well. A busy, difficult day. Thank you for your words. They do help. Being a house husband and having people over for dinner tonight is tricky when all i want to do is think this through. Should have ordered a take away. Boning & stuffing small birds needs some motivation (there's a euphamism I could do without.). DDs birthday etc etc. shit.

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maandpa · 20/01/2011 17:17

Oh gaawwwd myrubicon - keep going.

Roisinniamh · 20/01/2011 20:04

Just having to get on with everyday life will keep you sane.

myrubicon · 21/01/2011 12:30

Hello again. guests have gone. alone again, and now it all comes flooding back with a vengence. i love this website, but i'm not very good at posting about this - because i just really know what to say. forgive me if i just ramble.

we had a boozy dinner last night. I was ravenous, ate a reasonable amount but needed to make up an excuse, twice, to leave the table because i couldn't hold the food down. I don't know how to help myself feel in less pain. how could she do this. she must have a different definition of love to mine. i want to hate her and shout and cry and pack her bags and i feel unable to do any of these things.

i worry that I don't know if i can either forget or forgive. i want to, i think. i want to be big enough to do that. but right now, sitting here shaking, i cannot picture myself in x years time having moved on from the betrayal, and feeling venomous as a consequence. that is no basis for a marriage. I wonder how I can embrace her again and mean it. Dance with her. touch her hair. tell her she is beautiful. feel so lucky to have her. be blown away by the way she dresses sometimes. I JUST DONT KNOW HOW.

I told my sister yesterday. it did help a little. she offered little advice, which was fine. but she was there to listen.

it makes me feel pathetic. how to i deal with this with any dignity or ability to see the bigger picture - whatever that is.

And you know what? I hate talking about feelings. I was taught that your own feelings are secondary to your behaviour. An indulgence too far.

i just want a hug from a friend who will tell me it will be alright.

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myrubicon · 21/01/2011 12:34

really don't know what to say. not the other way round.

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 21/01/2011 12:48

But it's not pathetic at all, except in the literal sense of that word. This is a tragedy of epic proportions to you. You need to give yourself permission to feel whatever you feel.

It might help you if you write it all down, not necessarily on here if you don't feel able. That might feel like a more acceptable way of discharging your grief.

It's not unusual at all to doubt whether you'll be able to forgive and in truth, you can't know that yet. Sometimes it is appropriate to forgive, especially after all the truth is out there and your wife has made efforts to change - and sometimes it is inappropriate to forgive, if it means you lose yourself in the process. But you can't know that yet.

You can however give yourself permission to start a path to forgiveness, which is a different thing altogether.

optionalextras · 21/01/2011 12:51

So sorry for you myrubicon. I know exactly how you are feeling now - the utter devastation, nausea, paralysing fear for the future. I am a little further down the path than you but these awful, gut-wrenching feelings do diminish over time.

All I can say for this heart-breaking period is take your time. Be alone for a bit (ask her to move out for a while if you can, or at least out of the marital bedroom). Think and cry alone, then talk to her, shout, rant and tell her exactly how you feel when you want to. Don't make big decisions. Ask her everything you need to know and observe her behaviour.

And as others have said, having to keep it together for the children will stop you losing your sanity. Just hold on tight for now.

myrubicon · 21/01/2011 13:01

thank you. i'm not quite up to writing any more now. sorry. back when i can.

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myrubicon · 21/01/2011 13:06

thankyou for your support. really.

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kepler10b · 21/01/2011 16:22

myrubicon if you feel you won't be able to love her like you used to there is no harm in admitting that. it was not your choice for this to happen. you need to grieve what you have lost, what she has broken. how very sad for you.

myrubicon · 21/01/2011 16:36

But I do love her. I will never not love her. There are no different ways I have of loving her - it is immovable and unlimited. I just don't know if I can live with her. And my agony at that is complete. I am a person with passions. Life for me needs to be full and tactile and loving. There is so much to experience and revel in in this world. And you only have one chance at it. Now mine seems empty. Inert. Pained.

Miserable bastard, aren't I.

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londonartemis · 21/01/2011 16:42

Is she still living in the house with you?
Has she any idea what you are going through at the moment?

myrubicon · 21/01/2011 17:03

Yes she still lives here. I don't know if she KNOWS. she hears my words but I don't know if she truly understands. She will be back soon.

I met her at a wedding. I knew in less than 5 minutes I needed to be with her forever. And I can't cope with this. I just cant. I can't breathe. The kids are downstairs playing. They are beautiful. I am hiding upstairs sobbing into my scotch. Need to go & the jolly daddy now. Why me. Why

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Roisinniamh · 21/01/2011 18:14

You are going through the worse now, it will pass,I drank and smoked (seems crazy, looking back, I hate smoking) had to medicate myself someway.Not saying I recommend it, just saying I empathise with what you are feeling.
Can you get some time and peace to talk to your wife?
Are you ready to hear her 'story'?
It took us one long night/morning to get it all out.

optionalextras · 21/01/2011 18:14

So Sad for you, you are in the worst place now, it's rotten

Would you / could you ask her to leave for a bit to give you some time? How old are your children?

maandpa · 21/01/2011 19:18

You won't feel as bad as you do now for ever. It does ease with time, I remember, I think I felt substantially better after a few weeks (5 or so).

I couldn't go to work during these 5 weeks though, I couldn't function, I felt really slowed down with the shock of it. He was beyond reproach for most of our relationship, I was the crotchety, narky, cross one. And he was the nice guy, who put up with me. And he let me know it.

Is she showing genuine remorse? Has she severed contact with him? Are you talking to each other about what has happened, trying to make sense of it?

Keep posting.

CrispyHedgehog · 21/01/2011 20:06

Rubicon, I'm so sorry for what you're enduring :(

I'm almost a year to the day post discovery and it does get better after a few weeks you'll stop shaking and having that awful feeling in your chest and stomach.

I won't lie and say it's been plain sailing, it really hasn't and it's still not but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Do make time with her to talk and talk and talk and then talk some more. She needs to really take a long hard look at herself and see what it was that made her allow herself to behave in such a despicable way, and you need to know everything so that you know whether or not you can or want to forgive her and rebuild your marriage.

That was a mistake I made.. we didn't talk enough and I do believe that has hampered our progress considerably. We're now looking at individual counselling and then later on we'll have some together, to help us find the way through.

You're in very good hands here.. WWIFN is truly a post affair relationship guru and everyone else is pretty wonderful too. They certainly got me through some very very hard times.

big huggs x

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 21/01/2011 21:52

myrubicon I am not going to lie to you. Even if your wife does everything humanly possible now to heal your hurt, it will still take a long time to feel pure unadulterated (what a word)...joy in anything.

However, it is possible to get past this, but it's not about relationship repair, but about creating a brand new union. If you love eachother deeply and cannot imagine life without eachother, the odds are in your favour. Your wife does need to see the raw pain though - don't hide it from her.

robberbutton · 22/01/2011 00:49

So sorry for you myrubicon- and I'm sorry for me and everyone here who can empathise so strongly with everything you're going through. I'm 11 weeks since discovery, and it's not exactly better, but the moments of overwhelming agony and emotion are getting less frequent and shorter with time. Not in intensity though, not yet. What's also strange is that thoughts about what happened can be muted one day, and the next can have me in floods again. What's also annoying is that how I am is tied in so strongly with how H is. We feed off each other, positively and negatively.

Sorry, I know I'm just talking about myself! Hopefully might give you an idea of what's coming. Hope Relate conversation is helpful and productive.

myrubicon · 22/01/2011 00:56

am quite drunk now. have had more talks with her this evening. not there yet. not helpful to write more now. willl be back ytomorrow.

thank you all

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Roisinniamh · 23/01/2011 23:12

Hope you 're OK.

myrubicon · 24/01/2011 09:05

WWIFN - you talk about permission giving. Can you explain this idea to me?

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 24/01/2011 09:38

Yes. Whenever human beings want to do something they know to be wrong, there has to be a process whereby they give themselves permission to go ahead anyway.

In an affair, that permission depends very much on the justifications someone is giving themselves for having an affair. These can vary from the banal but honest (especially if there are no relational causes for the infidelity and the person can't pretend that there are) - along the lines of "I want to do this and as long as my spouse doesn't find out, this won't hurt him", right through to the punitive "If my H had treated me properly all these years, I wouldn't be doing this, so it's not my fault really..."

If someone has fallen in love with the affair partner, the permission-process becomes all about that person i.e. "I wouldn't be doing this with anyone else, but he is too special".

With female infidelity especially, I have noticed that there is a hugely unhelpful societal discourse that for a woman to be unfaithful, she must have been unhappy in her marriage. This is an even stronger societal belief than the one held, that all infidelity must have relational causes.

However, while there remains a societal distaste for women who can have sex without love or for women having the same reasons as men for their infidelity, this myth will still prevail and sometimes the woman herself can get locked into that script, even if it is inaccurate in her particular case.

If a woman cannot with any conviction delude herself that she is unhappy in her marriage, there is a tendency to exaggerate her feelings for her affair partner and convince herself that she wouldn't be doing this if she were not in love.

Since it makes no sense whatsoever that male affair partners are inherently more loveable than female affair partners and yet unfaithful men have always been able to accept that they can have affairs without love, this suggests that gender politics still play an active part in affairs and infidelity, as they do for everything else.

Asking an an unfaithful spouse about how and why they gave themselves permission to be unfaithful is an illuminating question and one that requires enormous thought. For it to be answered truthfully and honestly, a person must try to recall their inner dialogue and this can be especially difficult if they spoke to no-one about their affair.

Even asking questions about what she told the OM might not yield the truth, because it is possible that she lied to him as well about why she was doing this, either to make him feel better about what he was doing himself, or to convince him that her feelings for him were genuine.

The most difficult delusions are the lies she might have been telling herself. You might have read some of my other posts about how for a long time before an affair starts, people in previously good marriages will often sabotage it themselves, in order to create marital discord and give themselves a justification.

In summary, the permission-giving process depends on the believed justifications for infidelity, but what were believed to be justifications at the time, are often delusions and lies to oneself.

needafootmassage · 24/01/2011 10:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

myrubicon · 24/01/2011 10:19

God. You're good aren't you.

I don't know what she did to herself psychologically that allowed her to do this. To become a person whos actions would previously have been unthinkable to her (Or so I thought).

I wonder if, in acknowledging to myself that she granted herself permission in one of the ways you describe, I can move on from the devastation of seeing her as someone who has always been capable of an E&P affair, and therefore not the person I would have married or indeed committed to in any way. That's a place I'd like to find. I think it might be too soon for that.

In my naive idealised head, people are either capable of having an affair or they are not, and this polarised view transcends relationship difficulties, temptations, and being off your face. If you can have an affair once you can do so again. I have been so sure about this. But if I have been wrong about this, because 'all' a person needs to do to enter into a permission-giving process to become unfaithful, then it seems that I am the one that needs to re-evaluate himself. What I mean is, it looks like the hurt and inability to trust is something I need to sort out for myself. It's not something she has a part in. Hmm. I need to chew this one over for a while.

Thank you for your time, I'm sure you have betting things to do.

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