Alcoholic DH and 3 young children - what to do

[Anjelika]

I have a DS who's almost 4 and DTs aged 9 months. My DH has always liked a drink but since the DTs came along (and he's been at home full time) this has escalated to bouts of drinking behind my back during the daytime, to the point where he falls asleep at anything from 6pm onwards. Xmas was a total nightmare - Xmas Eve he was out for the count from 4pm and Xmas Day from 1pm, resurfacing both times around 10pm. He gave up drinking (yet again) on New Years Day but within 11 days was back to his old ways. This time he is totally denying drinking (vodka is his daytime tipple)and is claiming he's just very tired (to explain why he falls asleep every evening early on) and that maybe he's not eating enough to explain why he is slurring his words and staggering about! It is unreal and I feel like I'm living in this mad world. The next morning he's always as nice as pie, helping out with the kids and taking DS out then every afternoon it all goes pear shaped. I just don't know what to do - it's easy for everyone to say "leave him" as this has been going on for some time now but I don't think I could cope with the kids on my own and I have no family support nearby. Has anyone else put up with a simialr situation until their DCs were a bit older and they felt they could cope? My only plan at the moment is to divorce him when the DTs are 2 (so not till Apr 2012) and get an au-pair in to help out. Is this madness?

Your H has, is and will continue to put drink first. You are living in a mad world as you say. Of course people are going to say leave, you end up normalising such a situation if you;ve been in this for a long time. It is only when you are free that you look back and perhaps think why on earth did I not leave earlier.

You need support and Al-anon can help you directly.

Your children and you do not need or deserve a repeat of his behaviour last Christmas.
Your call at the end of the day but staying within this even till April 2012 is a non starter. Its mad to stay within this dysfunction because you will all end up further damaged by his alcoholism as a result. Its not just the alcoholic who is affected by alcoholism, the whole family need help. There is help out there for you but you need to be brave and start making the first - and hardest - step to leave him. Its not going to get any easier for you the longer you remain within this marriage so further delay on your part is not really acceptable. You could at that time find further reason to stay or he may plead and cry again saying he'll change.
He is quite happy to drag you all down with him and this process is happening now to you all.

He is still financially responsible for his children, you need proper legal advice. Nothing to stop you getting that now.

Why can't he leave; you are not responsible for him at the end of the day and all you are doing now is enabling him by being around him.

Who is buying the alcohol?. I sincerely hope as well you are not drinking with him.

This is not doing you or your children any favours at all, particularly your eldest who is now more aware of what is happening even if he cannot properly verbalise his anxieties and fears. He knows more than you perhaps realise, children are perceptive and pick up all the unspoken tensions between you two.

The 3cs re alcoholism:-

You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this

This is just one of the things I hate about alcoholism - the way it forces the non-alcoholics to try to find the least-worst choice out of a whole load of shitty choices I'm really sorry that you're having to face this.

The sad fact of the matter is that you are already largely looking after your DCs on your own. And as well as three DCs you're having to deal with the lies and general madness caused by living with an alcoholic. Given that you can't rely on him already, how much worse could it really be on your own? Just a thought. I understand if you don't feel able or willing to leave.

It can be possible to emotionally detach from worrying about someone else's drinking and to just leave them to it. It's not easy but it is possible. It does mean that you cannot rely on them for anything as, of course, you can't be sure that they'll be drunk or sober at any given point. You leave them to clear up their drunken messes, you don't bother getting involved in any pointless discussions regarding their drinking, and you don't bother trying to get them to change. It doesn't mean you necessarily withdraw entirely from the relationship (assuming any last dregs of the relationship has survived the drinking), it's all about withdrawing from the battle with their addiction.

There's a very good book called "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie that is all about emotionally withdrawing from someone else's addiction problems. Al-Anon can also help a lot but I would understand if it would be hard for you to attend their meetings given the circumstances.

Do you think you could get him to go to a doctor with you? This might force him to face up to the situation and get help. Really feel for you.

Sorry, but I would tell him that I am not stupid, I know he is drinking and his choices are to get help or to leave.

If he leaves you will cope, there is help out there for single Mums.

Snorbs - he's a SAHD, she can't just leave him to it and while he's still there she wont get the benefits she would get if he leaves.

Unless this man is both ready and willing to seek help for his alcoholism there is nothing anyone else can do. The non alcoholic can only help his/her own self here.

Take heed OP of Snorbs's post.

His denial is still there, he is denying he drinks claiming he is very tired!. He is also drinking in secret, yet another bad sign amongst many. You cannot help someone who does not want to be helped.

Are you at home during the day too?
I hope he has not the charge of 3 children while drinking.

As Snorbs says, how will things be worse without him? He is of no help as things are, only a source of stress and misery. If he doesn't get help it would be best to ask hime to leave. Then you will only be looking after 3 children, not 3 children and an unreliable alcoholic. Nothing to stop him getting help and maybe your relationship resumimg if/when he's a reliable husband and father again.

I would be very worried about the children's safety if he is drinking heavily while in charge of them. Vodka in the daytime? He is probably killing himself. Does he drive? He is probably never sober enough to be driving a car, at any time of day.

This must be such a terrible worry for you - but it might not be as hard as you think to cope without him. He is a burden in himself. Whatever happens you need to stop playing along with him - you are facilitating his drinking.

I split from my alcoholic ex 18 months ago after putting up with it for 5 years. My DSs are 7 & 6 now. I wish I had made the split earlier.

He used to go on benders for a week once a month eventually it was every other week. You need to consider that your DH's drinking could get progressively worse throughout the next year.

Inbetween my ex's benders he would try to be extra helpful and nice which I think was the reason I put up with it so long. Looking back it really wasn't worth it.

Being on my own was scary at first, how was I going to cope financially and practically but what the others have said about only looking after your children and not an alcoholic as well is so very true.

You will most likely have a difficult time to start with restructuring your life but honestly it will get easier. Once you are in a routine you will realise how much time and energy you spend on worrying and dealing with your DH. It will actually be easier looking after your children without him than with him.

Also from the children's point of view any changes to their life is easier the younger they are. Mine were not too bad although I did get a bit of anger from the eldest at the time. The younger they are the more accepting they are.

My ex is still a nightmare and forever cancels his access but I'm so grateful I don't have to live with it anymore.

My Dad has been an alcoholic my whole life. He is still there sucking the life out of her (although he no longer drinks except the odd bender). He never worked, spent my Mum's entire (large) inheritance on booze, nearly lost us our home and my Mum her job on many occasions and was an angry, grumpy, useless father and now is ill and needs looking after.

She would have been SO MUCH BETTER OFF WITHOUT HIM and SO WOULD THE CHILDREN.

I'm over it now, but I seriously went off the rails when I was younger and would not wish an alcoholic father on any child.

Sorry for being so blunt, but my Mum made the wrong choice with her life which is very sad for her now.

I too have an alcoholic parent and agree with the others. Unless he is getting help, seriously, leave him. What is to say that you will find leaving him in 2 years time any easier?

My parent was a well-functioning alcoholic but I will never forget the various scenes of drunkeness. Back in the days, when kids were allowed to buy alcohol, yes, I still feel the shame of it. Have many more scenarios but will spare you.

Your eldest is 4 and already aware of his surroundings. Don't make him live with it for the rest of his life.

Seperating does not have to be the end of the world. I totally understand that it must be really daunting and it would petrify me to. BUT, you have a duty towards your children and you might find that life is easier anyway, without the fourth, drunk child around.

He can still be involved in your life and hopefully wishes to help and support you when he is sober.

I really feel for you. Not an easy decision to make but think about your kids.

Find him sober. Grab his face. Tell him you love him. Look deep into his eyes. Tell him in 30 seconds you are going to ask him a question. You want the honest answer. Tell him after you ask the question you will wait 10 seconds for an answer. Wait 30 seconds. Ask him "why do you drink too much. Tell me the truth and I will understand" Wait. Listen. Kiss. Tell him you love him. Go to another room. Wait.

ARepleteHmmSkiNun ??????????

ARepleteHmmSkiNun, what is that going to achieve?

Do you think the op is Pauline McKenna?

Wait ARepleteHmmSkiNun? For what exactly?

I second Attila's suggestion of AL Anon for advice. They are there to help. And also if you separate, it is not to say he should disappear as Schnullerbacke said 'He can still be involved in your life and hopefully wishes to help and support you when he is sober'.

You sound like a great Mum (and partner) and I apologise if my response came across as agressive (just reread). Your story made me think of the different choice my Mum could have made and the childhood me and my sibs could have had.

Mssoul. You won't be there so you won't know.
But if I know male psychology, something will happen.
Endless, meaningless advice to contact some sort of "service" will certainly not help, if you want to take control of your life and your destiny.

ARepleteHmmSkiNun, I'll be interested to hear how the op gets on with your 'technique' althought I don't hold out much hope.

And advising the wife of an alcoholic to contact a service which offers advice to people who love alcoholics is hardly meaningless.

ARepleteHmmSkiNun, I know male psychology inasmuch as I am male and I have a lot of male friends. And I've got a lot of previous with being around alcoholics.

I reckon all your approach would achieve is either complete denial of a drinking problem, or a pack of lies about the reasons ("I wouldn't drink so much if you didn't...!") and/or half-hearted promises of change that won't amount to diddly-squat.

An actively drinking alcoholic (ie, an alcoholic who hasn't stopped for good) is very unlikely to reel off the real reasons for their drinking because they find it damn-near impossible to admit those reasons to themselves, let alone the person they've been trying to fool for the last god knows how many months or years. Alcoholics lie about their drinking. And for every lie an alcoholic tells you about their drinking, they've told themselves a hundred. Honesty just doesn't come into it.

But of course I could be wrong. Have you tried this approach with an alcoholic in your life? How did it go?

Hence the timimg Snorbs. No time to think of excuses. And whilst staring into the eyes, you will see the lies being formed. He will see that you see, then guilt (which I admit may be real or may be a pre-formed pity-me pretend guilt), reflection and coming into the room with either a) more meaningless see through excuses or b) some truth.

Many long-term alcoholics who have some intelligence do know the real reason why they drink. And based on the coherence of the OP, I would imagine she is not with a deeply stupid person.

You must know that sometimes, the unusual and unexpected can have positive results. We know nothing of the conventional paths that the OP has tried, But we do know that they are generally unsuccessful.

"I reckon all your approach would achieve is either complete denial of a drinking problem, or a pack of lies about the reasons ("I wouldn't drink so much if you didn't...!") and/or half-hearted promises of change that won't amount to diddly-squat".

Sorry Snorbs, but isn't that pretty much what all other approaches achieve?

Mssoul
I'm sorry if I have not read all the posts, but they do generally follow the same structure. I am perhaps being too literal here, but is there really a service which "loves" alcoholics? It sounds a bit Jesuitical to me.

AReplete: True. But that's because no approach will work on an alcoholic unless and until the alcoholic independently decides to stop drinking. Pleading, crying, punishing and trying to help are all equally useless because it is not possible to control another person's behaviour against that person's wishes.

SGB. Yes of course that is true.
When we forget ourselves, as we do most of the time and just act on automatic, we also of course forget the effect we have on others. If there is some way of unlocking the doors of perception in the way we perceive others and ourselves, there is a momentary opportunity to see things as they really are. In an adult's life this seems to happen pretty rarely, for the older we get the more automatically we live. In my experience, such an opening can happen in moments of intimacy where, for want of a better phrase, we see that "the eyes are the window of the soul" Such a shock for someone so used to operating on automatic, could be revealing.
I hope this makes sense.

Hmmmm, but the the way this debate is going, ARpleteHmmSkiNum, you may as well advice the op to stare her alcoholic husband in the eyes and offer him a box of chocolate, or even sniff your armpits - that might work equally well.
The only thing that has been agreed upon, is that helping an alcholic, is pointless, unless he himself wants help, which is unlikely.

AReplete, sorry but all this does rather make you sound like you've got little real experience of being in a relationship with an alcoholic. Have you?

You're not going to stare into their eyes and "see the lies being formed" because the lies come automatically. They've (largely unknowingly) rehearsed them to themselves hundreds of times while self-justifying why it's ok to continue drinking.

(And, as a personal aside, my ex is the most convincing liar I've ever seen when those lies are about her drinking. It took me a long time to realise that it was in those moments when she was steadily and unflinchingly holding my gaze that were actually one of the most reliable of indicators that she was lying to my face.)

Being told a pack of self-justifying lies is not what all the other approaches will achieve. Emotionally withdrawing from the battle with someone else's alcoholism will mean that you don't even bother engaging with them about their drinking. It's not about getting them to stop drinking. It's about giving up trying to control someone else's drinking for them.

The responsibility to do something about a drink problem rests solely with the person who has that drink problem. Someone could be pissed out of their head for the rest of their lives and that is their choice. Or, at least, it's their choice not to do anything about it. None of us are gods; we don't have the moral right to insist that someone else lives a lifestyle that we think they should live.

An alcoholic will stop drinking if and when the cost of what they have lost through drink, and the fear of what they may further lose, outweighs the fear of (in their eyes) how awful life could be without alcohol.

Finally, I think you mis-read Mssoul's post. She's talking about services for people who love alcoholics. In other words, services like Al-Anon (the friends and family offshoot of AA) for people who are in relationships with alcoholics rather than services for the alcoholics themselves.