I did a brave thing yesterday (long sorry)

[elephantsaregreen]

I told DP that I thought we should go separate ways. He was devastated. But I was surprised by the way he reacted. First he said 'no, no you're not taking my girls away from me.' (of which I have no intention). Then he got super angry and broke the kids watertable.

He said he is tired of not living up to people's expectations and that it makes him feel like putting a bullet in his head (!). This wasn't a threat as just sad evidence of his incredibly negative self-narrative.

He even started blaming my friend who recently split up with her DP. and he denied everything I said, like, that I think we incompatible.

Then he said he isn't giving up 'all of this' (gesturing at the house). Then he said stuff like don't 'do this to me' and he cried. Then he said he isn't going to lose me and that he'll go to counseling.

Obviously there were bits I said in between but I was calm (but upset).

it was horrible. In the end I agreed to go to counseling with him. I feel that after 5 years I owe him that. and also, he clearly needs help and this might be a good way for him to get counseling on his own.

I guess I was a bit naive thinking it wouldn't be this bad. But I do feel pretty angry with him for reacting this way. It felt very aggressive and I have been trying to make things better for years.

Spent much of yesterday in tears and we spent the afternoon apart. Then when we came back together he was acting like nothing happened. Which felt weird. He was walking around the house whistling and asked if we should go and get a new printer (which is pretty much the last thing on my mind)

Now I feel weird. and I don't know if I should get the ball rolling for counseling or tell him that he should.

Unfortunately finances being what they are, I don't know how we would manage to live apart.

It's really hard to stay strong. I am getting lot's of support from real people who are reminding me about everything I have put up with over the years, but when you are home, in your comfortable, home, with your kids, and things are even pleasant between you and 'D'P its sooo hard to believe that I've done the right thing.

Back story here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1114943-WWYD

Sending sympathy. Don't know the backstory but I'm sure there's never a good way to break this kind of news, only a least worst option. Was it a total bolt from the blue for him? If so, it's hardly surprising that he reacted to emotionally - shock, denial, grief and lots of other emotions are all to be expected.

Best of luck with a very difficult situation. Hope you have good support nearby.

Hi there thanks for your response. Well, it shouldn't really have been a surprise, we've been having problems for ages but I think he has had his head in the sand for so long.

It's so hard to act 'normal' for the kids...

Hi Elephants

I've read through your various threads and a lot of what you're going through is very similar to my situation. My husband is also an introverted depressive type and finds it difficult to talk about his emotions. We've been having problems for a few years now and trying to resolve things without much success. I first mentioned that I thought we should split up about six months ago and his reaction was similar to your husband's - he didn't get violent but he made all kinds of threats about killing himself, or leaving to live in another city and basically abandoning his daughter. Actually I was quite surprised at how strong his reaction was because I really expected him to agree on some level with me that it wasn't working. Things slightly improved for a while and but he soon slipped back into his usual non-communicative state.

I went back to the UK over Christmas with DD for almost three weeks (like you we live overseas) and husband never called us once, not even a single email. When I came back last week I knew I had to end things and I spoke to him on Friday night. This time he has accepted things. Yesterday was very difficult in the house as he is basically ignoring me or just answering in monosyllables (not much change from the usual!!) But yesterday I realised deeply that all these years I've tried to get him to want to talk to me, spend time with me, show me physical affection, etc, were a waste of time because my husband simply doesn't love me.

Well, just wanted to share - you're not alone and even now after having told him it's over I'm still thinking "ohmigod what I have done" but realising that he doesn't love me has given me a sense of calm and feeling that overall I'm doing the right thing. Good luck and keep us posted.

Sympathy going your way.

The temporary pleasantness is nearly always accompanied by the dread of the other shoe falling ime.

What you are dealing with now is the really hard part. I would call him on it immediately if he ever threatens suicide again. Go straight to the phone and call the police. Same goes for any violent act like breaking something. Emotional blackmail and violence are unacceptable. Show him that he is not allowed to cross those lines.

At times when you feel your resolve crumbling and worries overwhelm you, remember the broken toys and the hopeless and helpless and trapped feeling you get when he goes berserk as you described. All the worries will be there as well as the problem of trying to live with your H as long as you're together. Without him, yes you'll have the fears and the financial problems but you won't have to deal with threats of suicide and violence and you'll have far more energy and more space in your head to tackle practical problems.

It would be better to go to counselling on your own and try to get the specific help you need. When you've lived with someone who has put you through a wringer like this you really need help before you can feel strong enough and disengaged enough to put the trauma behind you and move on.

Thanks everyone. I'm trying to think about it one step at a time.
we talked briefly tonight and I explained that I just don't think we are compatible, which he rejects as a valid reason, saying that difference is good.

Just to clarify, he has never gone berserk like that before and I told him he can't threaten like that.

I've never felt in any danger.

TinyAK, that sounds like such a hard thing to have to have experienced. Thanks for sharing. I've always thought, yes, he loves me, but sometime, I'm just not so sure...

Math, thanks for your strong words. It was thanks to you that I told him he couldn't use suicide as a threat and that he should get his own counselor. I've been seeing my own counselor for a while which has been sooooo good. I love it. Been before but I don't think I was ready.

One at a time right?

The tantrum will be at the back of your mind though when you next have to confront him Elephants. Somewhere in there you will have the memory of a water table destroyed by his hands and it may have the effect (the effect it was designed to have) of intimidating you. Do not hesitate to follow through on what you said and defend the line you have drawn. Same goes for the suicide threats.

i know his reaction may seem extreme to you but remember you have been processing this break up for months in your mind, you've built up to the point of announcing your decision. for him it's come out of the blue. even though it may seem obvious to you the relationship needed to end to the dumped party (believe me i've been there...twice), it never seems obvious. he'll have a completely alternative narrative to the state of the relationship to you.

be comforted that the suicide stuff is most likely a bluff but when you are faced with the extreme emotions of the situation he has found himself in then empty threats like this are about the only ammo you have.

counselling may be a good idea because it might help him to process the split more readily and actually hear what you are saying.

should have said 'one day at a time'

The good news is he has off his own back sorted out his own counseling and has agreed to go to couples counseling with me. He told me today that he loves me and doesn't want to lose me, but part of me thinks he just doesn't want to lose the relationship, the life we share iyswim

I really appreciate everything you are all saying. you are both right about the tantrum. I keep asking myself if I want to be with a man who has that kind of reaction to something he really doesn't like....

and through out this process, he is invalidating my feelings/statements. like they are wrong or don't matter. When I said we are incompatible, he said bullshit

I think you are very perceptive, Elephants. The invalidation and the scene he made would give me pause here.

I think he is hoping the counselling will go 'his way' and he will hear encouraging words, and he is also hoping the going to individual counselling will be enough of a sop to you to get you of his back for a while. No matter what he hears from the counsellor he goes to, he will probably say s/he agrees with his take on the relationship and thinks you are the one with the problem...

Anyone who reacts to being dumped by threatening suicide and breaking the children's toys is a complete wanker.
Hold that thought and stay firm. This man is selfish and self-indulgent: what he wants not to lose is his home comforts, he's not bothered about you.

Remember: it's fine to realise you are incompatible with someone (particularly a selfish whining bully), and it's fine to end a relationship that isn't working.

Good luck.

He sounds very like my ex - nothing terrible about the marriage, just that I felt about as important to him as the kitchen table or the lightbulb. Our split was a horrible one, and he went quickly from calm acceptance to crying wreck to just plain nasty.

Like you I'd spent years trying to talk to him, trying to get him to meet me in the middle and make our marriage better, he just wasn't interested. Also like you, friends kept saying I would end up leaving him, and nobody was surprised when we split.

When I told him we should split, he admitted that he found having a family 'a burden', so I'm not sure why he got so nasty about it all in the end! He has told me since that he's much happier now having his freedom, but he would never have dreamed of admitting such a thing at the time.

It's a huge and difficult step to take ending your marriage, and things can be fairly rocky and horrible for a while afterwards (still are for me to be honest) and only you can decide if it's right for you.

Elephants, you have been incredibly brave. It's such a hard thing to do, but it really sounds like you dont want to carry on as you are.

My exH reacted in exactly the same way. 'you can't take my kids away ... I'm not giving up all this ...' and got both angry and tearful. It was pretty scary and made me feel terrible. Having finally said the words, though, I couldn't go back. It was bloody tough and miserable but it was the right thing to do.

Get as much support as you can. If he is anything like my ex he will do everything he can to manipulate you, play on your guilt and try to persuade you to change your mind. You know, deep down, that you don't want it changed, don't you?

You are brave, and you can do this. I'm sorry I'm not one of the 'you should make it work' brigade - it seems very clear that you've been pushed to your limit. Listen to people who k ow you and know what's right for you - they will give you the emotional support you need.

I could have written your OP almost word for word three years ago. I know I did the right thing, even though it was really hard.

know you

The reason someone like this gets so nasty and so angry is because every interaction is seen as a power game with one winner and one loser emerging from each encounter. If you get your way he loses and a man like this can't stand to lose. It is too much of an assault on his ego. It doesn't matter that parting makes sense and that the relationship has been run into the ground (often by him). The only thing that matters is that he doesn't 'lose'. Hence the desperate and very nasty fighting.

Thanks all. It's really hard to read some of the posts, like SGB about this man who I have loved and shared my life with for five years. But I am really glad to read them too.

I really appreciate the support from you all and the validation for my feelings.

The update is that he has been making a big effort over the last couple of days to be kind, considerate and such. His counselor/psychologist correctly identified that he has clinical depression and encouraged him to take his meds encouraged him to exercise and other suggestions which I HAVE ALL SUGGESTED to him frequently in the past. (But of course what do I know). She said she would see him in three weeks (which personally I think is a little long but I suppose she wants his meds to kick in)

Things are very amicable and calm in the house, we've shared some laughs and I just bet you that he thinks this is all going to work out ok.

But I have disconnected and that's why it's calm and amicable. Although it's hard to not feel like the situation is very unreal. It's hard to talk about future things.

He has never gotten aggressive like that before and I am struggling to reconcile that image of him and the fabulous father I know him to be as the same person.

I wonder why I'm quite accepting of how he behaved and it really reminded me of my first boyfriend who was very controlling and I accepted it because I knew how hard his life had been.

Wow, I see a pattern here... my current DP also has had a hard life. I'm a social worker and I realise I have this 'rescue' problem with boyfriends. My other ex was an alcoholic.

Sheesh. I'm feeling a bit pathetic now.

I feel like I am avoiding talking to him now. I feel like waiting until we can get a counselor together and sorting it out there.

But I also know its going to be really hard because he will want to 'try' and I don't think I want to. But part of me feels like I 'owe' him.

I keep telling myself I've been trying for YEARS. I'm justified in feeling like it's too little too late...

Thank you all for sharing your stories, especially that it got better and you made the right decisions by leaving. It gives me hope.

Ooops. That should have been from Elephantsaregreen. Oh well.

Thanks all. It's really hard to read some of the posts, like SGB about this man who I have loved and shared my life with for five years. But I am really glad to read them too.

I really appreciate the support from you all and the validation for my feelings.

The update is that he has been making a big effort over the last couple of days to be kind, considerate and such. His counselor/psychologist correctly identified that he has clinical depression and encouraged him to take his meds encouraged him to exercise and other suggestions which I HAVE ALL SUGGESTED to him frequently in the past. (But of course what do I know). She said she would see him in three weeks (which personally I think is a little long but I suppose she wants his meds to kick in)

Things are very amicable and calm in the house, we've shared some laughs and I just bet you that he thinks this is all going to work out ok.

But I have disconnected and that's why it's calm and amicable. Although it's hard to not feel like the situation is very unreal. It's hard to talk about future things.

He has never gotten aggressive like that before and I am struggling to reconcile that image of him and the fabulous father I know him to be as the same person.

I wonder why I'm quite accepting of how he behaved and it really reminded me of my first boyfriend who was very controlling and I accepted it because I knew how hard his life had been.

Wow, I see a pattern here... my current DP also has had a hard life. I'm a social worker and I realise I have this 'rescue' problem with boyfriends. My other ex was an alcoholic.

Sheesh. I'm feeling a bit pathetic now.

I feel like I am avoiding talking to him now. I feel like waiting until we can get a counselor together and sorting it out there.

But I also know its going to be really hard because he will want to 'try' and I don't think I want to. But part of me feels like I 'owe' him.

I keep telling myself I've been trying for YEARS. I'm justified in feeling like it's too little too late...

Thank you all for sharing your stories, especially that it got better and you made the right decisions by leaving. It gives me hope.

that's the risk with having two usernames

He might have had a hard life. S'now't compared to the one he's making you live though is it?

As others have said, you are very perceptive and I get the feeling from your posts that you are strong enough to do the right thing (for you) here.

Keep listening to Mathanxiety and SGB. Voices of wisdom as always.

Sending you more strength. x

No no no - you don't owe him anything, especially not days and months of your life spent in misery! Life really is too short for that sort of sacrifice.

If anything, he owed it to you to listen and tackle the problems as you brought them up, and he didn't, so there your responsibility ends. You've already tried, he didn't.

I still feel guilty two years on about being the one who ended my marriage, but I also know that I tried bloody hard in the years before to make things better, and I'd have been just as well begging the blank walls to help. He either ignored me or scoffed at anything I said, and in the end you are forced to the realisation that there is literally nothing you can do to fix things, so you either give up yourself to an unhappy existence, or you break free and look for a happier life, and that's what you're doing.

Listen to that little voice that is telling you it's too little too late. It's trying to throw you a lifeline.

I'm feeling very confused now. But mainly angry. I went for a walk up the hill and cried hard and loud. That felt pretty good.

I feel angry because DP is trying so hard to be nice and attentive and he is in a better mood, probably due to his meds and I just feel like the bad person here.

After years of me trying he now turns all sweet and considerate and I feel cold and like I'm being a bitch.

We are both acting like nothings wrong but tbh sometimes it feels like nothings wrong... all calm and collaborative with the kids. and it makes me feel awful. like I could just go along with this calm and it will all go away...

I am counting the hours for my meeting with my counselor tomorrow and we have our first joint session the day after.

Hi elephants

I lived with someone like this for many years until eventually I was worn out. Worn out with doing everything at home, with planning all our holidays and making all the conversation.

I became emotionally detached in the end and behaved badly which I regret. When I finally came out of denial and addressed the situation he burst into action.

He started counselling, denied he had ever been really depressed and blamed it on my abusive behaviour. He did a bit of door slamming and shouting too.

It was all too little too late. But there was no hurry to make a final decision. You don't have to decide yet whether to leave or stay. Why not mentally agree to see how things go for six months of counselling and if he is making an effort and things are getting better and you are feeling happier you will want to stay. If not it will be obvious to you that it is time to split up. But you will know you have done all you can and your guilt will be less.

It is not a crime to leave a relationship (copyright SGB) and it is not wrong to want to be happy!

I remember thinking when that calm you describe fell upon the household after years and years of him behaving like a human cactus - if exH could pull it out of his ass at that point why not ten years ago? Ten years of preventable misery. All he had to do was be civil. I wasn't even asking for affection.

He returned to his true nature, his default position of aggressive blaming and arrogance, after I apparently took too much time to get over myself. He wasn't prepared to make a commitment to civility.

Beware of people who can seemingly change overnight.

hi again. Had my counseling session and it really took it out of me. Did lots of crying. I was struggling to believe that 'i deserve better'. I've always hated being the bad guy. This is no different. I feel like I've lost or maybe never had a realistic idea of what a happy relationship could be like. All my close friends keep telling me, it's the right decision, so why can't I grow a backbone?
Maybe I should remember what's been posted. That I don't have to make any decisions right away. Give it, me time.
Feeling very tearful.

If it's depression to blame for his mood and behaviour then it's far too early for the meds to have made a difference, if as you imply he only started taking them a few days ago. I don't know about serious psycho-whatsits, but the usual GP-prescribed ADs take at least a couple of weeks to kick in and sometimes make you feel worse while your body adjusts to them. So if he's being more cheerful now, it's a choice. Whether it's a long-term choice to change himself for the better, or a quick fix to put you back in the box, remains to be seen. You won't lose anything by standing back and observing where this is going for a while.

The counsellor once asked me whether, if XH admitted to his depression, got help for it and improved, I could envisage letting him back into my life. I said I would be pleased if he did because it would make him happier in himself and potentially a better partner for someone else, but for me it was too late because all the respect had gone. You are very likely at this point too. The only thing I will say to you is, it is understandably harder to accept brutal truths from one's nearest and dearest than from a professional, so don't let personal pique - that he listened to the psychologist although he wouldn't listen to you - have undue weight. "A prophet is without honour under his own roof-tree" and all that. Whether he genuinely makes long-lasting improvements, and whether you are happy to live with the person he becomes, are the big questions and those simply can't be answered at this point.

No-one else can tell you what you want. The counsellor's right, though, you do deserve better.