How much do you put up with in the name of family? PIL LONG

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

FIL and I do not really get on. I don't really like him and when we visit, he's not very nice.

Certain things I put up with (and I'm sure vice versa). He mocks our decision to try and eat higher welfare meat (asking if everything is organic, even the water, over and over and over), he mocks DS for his comfort blanket behind his back. He talks about how awful all "townies" are and how only country people are decent (guess which I am ), he goes on and on about his three other children/children in law who have degrees, how endlessly proud he is of them (I do not). He denigrates the way that we raise the children, saying that we are too soft on them. He tells them off at the table and upsets them. He mocks me for being politically liberal. He says inflammatory things and then looks at me, waiting for a reaction.

I put this stuff aside and keep my mouth shut, continuing to visit so that he can have a relationship with the children. (MIL knows that he is hard work but does nothing). I never let him get away with upsetting the children but allow him to wind me up and not respond for the sake of H and the children and their relationship.

However, when they visit here (out house is much smaller than theirs an d we live 4 hours away), he is terrible. The stuff already described continues (I still put up with it) but he also does nothing, never wants to get involved - will not play games in the evening, or go out in the day - he never says so much of a thank you for food I have cooked from scratch. When finished with his main course, declares "WHAT'S FOR PUDDING?" and waits. HE demands people make him tea at all times, won't get out of bed until he is ready and never helps with anything. As far as he is concerned, when he is in his house, it is his house and he can do as he pleases. When he is in our house he is a guest and can do as he pleases. He commands the television all evening and that is that. He takes the piss out of me if I want to go to bed early.

All in all, I decided that I would continue to visit them - they have a large house and more space means things are a little less fraught. BUT - that I didn't want them to come here as I end up working hard to welcome them and cater for them (and spend money doing so) for no thanks.

Now they are asking when they can come and visit and H is piling on the pressure as he does not feel comfortable saying to his mother "Why don't we come to you as things with Dad make things fraught here"

Do you just put up with all sorts in the name of family? Should I just get the fuck over it and let him get away with being a massive child and acting ho he wants wherever he goes?

I wouldn't put up with that at all, and I would be pretty unimpressed that your DH 'does not feel comfortable' taking to his mum about it.
He should be backing you up. There is no way a man like that would be staying at my house.

malovitt - I should add for fairness that I am quite a sensitive person, so it is fair to assume that some things that bother me, would not bother other people.

Poor you you have been saintly IMO. Annoys me terribly when dreadful bullying selfish people are cossetted and protected by their families despite their behaviour - DHs grandfather was abit like this though nowhere near this bad. Some people (often older men) have such a huge amount of slack cut for them it is hard to believe.

If you call him on it it could have big repercussions (hurting MIL etc) and you will be painted as the villain. Would be marvellous if you did though. It really should be your DH managing this though its his father that is causing the issues.

Your house and you should decide who you invite into it. This man sounds like a total pig and if he was my fil I wouldn't want him round either. He is a bully and your mil and dh are letting him get away with it.

I think the nub of this problem Pfft is that your H isn't confronting the situation. As you can imagine, that doesn't surprise me....

Does your H agree with you that his Dad can be an absolute arse who plays one child/in-law off against the other, or always needs a family scapegoat? Does he see his Dad as a sexist patriarch? What do your sibling-in-laws say about FIL?

Has your H learned a bit more in recent months about how his family dynamics have shaped him and reached his own conclusions about that?

As ever, reverse this. If your Mum or Dad or siblings were making your H seethe with resentment, in his own home, what would you be doing and saying?

He is a bully and it sounds like your MIL and DH have had a lifetime of accommodating his rudeness.

Personally, I would probably tell him to either behave like a gentleman when he visits or to stay at home but I appreciate this would not exactly help the situation.

I think I would "ask" MIL if it's ok for you to visit their lovely home because they have so much more room, etc, and because it's such a treat for you blah, blah, blah.

Does your DH recognise what he does, and know that he is a pain?

If so, once your FIL starts on you he should say 'oi, Dad, Piff's right, leave her be' and then change the subject. And he should do this each and every time.

And just don't tell them anything that will fuel thier stupidity - don't mention that the meat is free range, don't offer your thoughts on progressive child-rearing or anything political - just talk about neutral subjects, the more banal the better.

Thank fuck for that it's not just me!

kerala I agree about families cossetting certain members - there is this way that everyone says "it's just the way he is" that really grates. But I am the outsider I suppose (we have been together for 10 years) so I feel that I can't stick my nose in and say that it isn't on.
I don't want to call him on it, TBH, I feel enough of an outcast as it is without making it worse (and I don't think it will improve things, simply push our little family out).

blackduck, yes that is how I feel. I do think that DH agrees with me on some things, but certainly feels that he cannot stand up to his family. I don't see it as him taking their side (and we have talked about this a lot, we have other issues going on) but that the way his father has treated him growing up means that he can't say what he wants.

How bloody rude! Very sad that your MIL doesn't say anything to him because "that's just the way he is". What does DH do/say when your FIL is behaving the way he does? I bet if you went to their house and behaved the same way to them as your FIL does you'd be out on your ear!

If your DH does not want to speak to his FIL about his behaviour then I would stop allowing your FIL to visit your house. He is bullying you and you have done nothing to deserve it.

OP, from what you have written, I don't think you sound oversensitive. All the things you have mentioned would bother me enough to not let him stay, it's inexcusable behaviour. Our family are very plain speaking though and I would have put a stop to it from day one; I know that not everyone is like us though. I never suffer in silence.

Sorry can't help much, we're in similar situation, there's fuck all you can do about it. If i mention to dp he gets all upset, I do see where he's coming from as I guess none of us like to hear criticism of our families.

I could cope with it before, but now we have the baby its different - I don't like her criticising how we're doing things, and i worry about her doing things differently behind my back. But, unless you want to split the family up, you just have to lump it really.

Think Belle's idea about 'asking' MIL to visit her house, laying it on thick etc, is way to go.

Could you maybe gently rib him back, when he's going on about 'country ways'? Sort of laughingly so you can say you were only joking? Play him at his own game!

Ha! WWIFN, no I am not shocked He has trouble confronting situations like this, particularly with his father as I think that this is where the majority of his issues come from. It isn't as straightforward as him choosing them over me. H does see his father as bigoted, and last time they visited (H took the children down without me) he stood up to his father when he was telling them off at the dinner table. He said "They are my children, not yours so stop it!" AND at new year last year, we left a day early after a confrontation and he completely supported me.

We will be discussing the issue properly tomorrow as he is out now, but wanted MN opinions before going in.

Belle It is so tempting to say that BUT I don't think it would make any difference! Not to his behaviour, he is so brash that he doesn't care. Which is why I said that they couldn't come any more to H. It has been over a year since they were here.

Blu - this is what I started doing when we visited, stopped bringing up anything vaguely flammable, but he insists on baiting (I stay silent these days) but he is disappointed.

While H accepts other things about his father, he refuses to accept that anything he does is in any way malicious.

Thing is, Pootles (about the ribbing) is that FIL has a MASSIVE insecurity problem I think. He is completely obsessed with the idea that everyone else thinks that they are better than him. He is convinced that all townies are obsessed with money, that they all think they are better than him. He thinks that H thinks he is above him because he changes the aspect on the TV, he is always going on about how this person thinks that they are better than him. If I were to make sarcastic comments about things like that, it would make him worse, because I would be saying that I thought I was better than him

It's a shitter isn't it? Sorry you are going through similar. I worry about doing anything about it - I don't want to be the instigator as if things turn out badly, I will be the one that initiated everything and the reason things fell apart. H needs to sort it out, but he needs to do it by himself, not with me yapping in his ear about how he should do this/that/the other.

That he can't see his Dad as malicious might be the problem here Pfft. I can, just based on what you've posted. I think your FIL is a bully, which is why he baits you and is disappointed when he doesn't get a reaction. I think he knows exactly what he's doing and has malintent, along with the other flaws such as bigotry and sexism.

I expect at the heart of this is that he doesn't value women and thinks you are far too uppity and assertive, so he likes to poke fun of you and try to bring you down. Bullying his grandchildren is another means of bullying you.

Mm see what you mean. Don't they say all bullies do it out of insecurity? Certainly the case with my PIL. I think the bringing up kids differently plays into it all as well - by doing it differently, they think you're saying how they did it was wrong - and saying someone brought their children up wrong is pretty much the worst thing you could say to someone I think!

PS can't give solution sorry - other than to say, how old is he? May well be dead soon (joking, joking, don't flame me)

WWIFN yes I think you are right. He has said to H before that he thinks H should be able to do as he pleases on the weekends - he earns the money, he's a man - he should be out at the pub doing whatever he likes, not spending time at home with his family. (of course, this entitlement ties into another thread )

I don't think there is a solution that is going to make everything better TBH. In the past, H has shown that he can stand up to them, and has done so - when DD was born they wanted to stay straight away but H said no as I spent all of day 2 on sofa with norks out as had trouble BF. They were mightily pissed off that they had to wait a DAY. He also told them that we weren't coming down for Christmas, but spending it at home (an agreement made recently).

I suppose I just wanted reassurance that I was right to say that they couldn't come here. I hate the way that FIL speaks to H and has always treated him badly (he is very second best to perfect SIL) so I understand why H has trouble standing up to him. BUT it annoys me that he won't admit the bullying that FIL is doing. I need to work on that.

But I will not have them here.

Pootles I know!

(he is only just 60)

Definitely right choice Pfft. Sorry but made me laugh 'doing what he likes - not spending time with his family' God forbid he should want to spend time with his family. Says it all really. He sounds incredibly old-fashioned. Be glad yours don't live 5 minutes down the road

I know!

ARGH - 5 minutes? Really? Bloody hell, reason enough to move, no?

Are they evil?

They're not evil per se... just pita. She just likes to undermine me - apparently i'm starving ds making him wait till 6 months for solids. She just LOVED that new report that apparently confirmed me having harmed him for life.

Worst probably was when they hugely embarassed me in front of my parents who live 3 hrs away, they were visiting, pil were meant to come round for dinner, didn't arrive, dp rang them to ask where they were, 'oh we went to sainsburys instead'.

Thankfully dp realised in that case that they were out of order, but i could have throttled them.

'oh we went to sainsburys instead'.

OMG. It's a battleground.

I know. If i bite my tongue anymore its going to fall out of my mouth.

AT least you will have a good excuse for not seeing them though