How much do you put up with in the name of family? PIL LONG

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

FIL and I do not really get on. I don't really like him and when we visit, he's not very nice.

Certain things I put up with (and I'm sure vice versa). He mocks our decision to try and eat higher welfare meat (asking if everything is organic, even the water, over and over and over), he mocks DS for his comfort blanket behind his back. He talks about how awful all "townies" are and how only country people are decent (guess which I am ), he goes on and on about his three other children/children in law who have degrees, how endlessly proud he is of them (I do not). He denigrates the way that we raise the children, saying that we are too soft on them. He tells them off at the table and upsets them. He mocks me for being politically liberal. He says inflammatory things and then looks at me, waiting for a reaction.

I put this stuff aside and keep my mouth shut, continuing to visit so that he can have a relationship with the children. (MIL knows that he is hard work but does nothing). I never let him get away with upsetting the children but allow him to wind me up and not respond for the sake of H and the children and their relationship.

However, when they visit here (out house is much smaller than theirs an d we live 4 hours away), he is terrible. The stuff already described continues (I still put up with it) but he also does nothing, never wants to get involved - will not play games in the evening, or go out in the day - he never says so much of a thank you for food I have cooked from scratch. When finished with his main course, declares "WHAT'S FOR PUDDING?" and waits. HE demands people make him tea at all times, won't get out of bed until he is ready and never helps with anything. As far as he is concerned, when he is in his house, it is his house and he can do as he pleases. When he is in our house he is a guest and can do as he pleases. He commands the television all evening and that is that. He takes the piss out of me if I want to go to bed early.

All in all, I decided that I would continue to visit them - they have a large house and more space means things are a little less fraught. BUT - that I didn't want them to come here as I end up working hard to welcome them and cater for them (and spend money doing so) for no thanks.

Now they are asking when they can come and visit and H is piling on the pressure as he does not feel comfortable saying to his mother "Why don't we come to you as things with Dad make things fraught here"

Do you just put up with all sorts in the name of family? Should I just get the fuck over it and let him get away with being a massive child and acting ho he wants wherever he goes?

Well, you're not being over-sensitive, he sounds like a bully. Clearly, he is trying to provoke you into a reaction- and that's a no-win situation. You shouldn't have to get over it.

If he's winding you up about your background/ principles, the best thing to do might well be to ignore it, or brush it off in a matter which suggests total calm and composure (e.g. responding to every single inflammatory remark by ignoring it, or just saying "Oh, really?" and then changing the subject). His behaviour sounds petulant; trying to tackle it with reasoned, grown-up logic is probably futile, and the tried and tested toddler taming trick of distracting him with shiny things is probably not going to work either :).

If he is making rude and personal remarks about other people I think you do need to respond - I like the line I've seen on MN, along the lines of " That comment sounded very rude / nasty, I'm sure you didn't intend to come across as spiteful so shall we move on?"- and then talk about something else before he can respond. And if he persists, your DH needs to explain to his parents that you (as a family) are not willing to put up with deliberately hurtful behaviour. And DH should be working with you on this to find a solution, not hassling you.

If you do choose only to visit them, be prepared for jibes about how you expect to be fed and waited on but won't return the favour etc.If you do let them visit, don't give in to his demands- put the TV temporarily out of action, don't wait on him, ignore demands for tea and pudding (or say "are you putting the kettle on? Tea for me please!")

You can have the upper hand here because you are far more emotionally mature than him. Try to think of him as having very weak interpersonal skills, and acting as he does because he can't carry on a mature level of conversation- might make you feel less attacked and more in control.

You could try one more visit, making it clear to your dh that you are going to take your PIL on? Do you think you could battle him? Like 'God, yes, I spent six months in the country once, never again, everyone I spoke to was married to their cousin.' 'Yup, the water's organic and it costs us £3,000 a pint, nice eh?' 'Mmm, the town's so much CLEANER don't you think? Bet you love visiting here, you must hate being stuck out in the sticks, what on earth do you do all day?'

Re manners: 'No pudding for those who ask'. 'Sorry, we've put the telly in the attic for your visit, I can't stand all those awful programmes you watch'.

Three possible outcomes: 1. massive family barney and the entire clan is rent in half; 2. he roars with laughter and backs off a bit 3. they rise as one from the table and never visit again. Only 1 out of 3 is a downer.

i would drink a bottle of wine with my dinner and let rip on this rude man!- tell him exactly what you think and what you expect of his behaviour when he is in your house. finish off by telling him, he can do the washing up. throw up and go to bed!

I wouldn't go to visit him and I wouldn't have him in the house. I'd send your husband with the children and have a lovely night out with friends instead.

You shouldn't be expected to put up with that sort of behaviour. Your husband should tell them that you're not coming because he is so rude to you, and that they can't come to your house because he can't behave himself. He should say his mum is welcome, but that his dad isn't.

"I wouldn't go to visit him and I wouldn't have him in the house."

I agree with that.

I´d meet halfway for a couple of hours.

Certainly wouldn´t let husband visit alone-god knows what the children might have to put up with if ou´re not there to be picked on & deflect stuff!

Enough is enough.

I would put your foot down (& keep it firmly down) about them not coming to yours - tell your DH that it's them in the house or you - his choice.

Tell DH that you will go to theirs one more time, but you will not be putting up with any crap from your FIL and if he doesn't stand up for you & the children you will not be going again. He can go anytime he likes and the children can go if they want to.

You have put up with this for a long time, as I said, enough is enough. I don't care that 'this is what he's like' - what he's like is not fucking acceptable!

I don't think you should keep your mouth shut. What Inertia suggests is good ("that comments sounds nasty to me", "I find that comment hurtful" etc). A mature and polite response, avoiding humour and just saying it straight, is better than sarcasm and aggressive tactics. You should stand up for your principles of decent communication, especially if the other people present have been browbeaten into passivity over the years (your mil - poor woman - and your dh).

Write him a letter.Say "Dear FIL, I have heard from MIL that you would like to come to visit. I have resisted this because on previous visits your behaviour has upset DH and I, and we feel better able to deal with it when we are at your house. However DH and I feel that it would be better to get things in the open, tell you what we are unhappy about, and you can then decide how to deal with this, or not, as the case may be.
[Stick to the big stuff]

1. [not helping around the house]
2. [failing to take into consideration others eg tv]
3. [being rude/unfair to the kids]
4. [denigrating your education/way of life]

Up to now we have put up with this so that you can have a relationship with the children. If we come to stay with you we will still put up with it up to a point. But we have decided we no longer are willing to accept that behaviour in our house.

We are happy to discuss this any time you feel ready to. We love you and want you to be part of our and the children's lives.
Love me and DH

Thank you all for your posts, apologies for not being around and replying. I don't mean to sound rude, have been in hospital all day with my grandfather who is very ill.

Am knackered now and will look through everything in the morning and respond. Have been thinking it over and think you are all right though (of course ) and I have to stand firm.

poor you
sleep well

Well, clearly the consensus is that IANBU, even though I didn't post this in AIBU?

I don't want to put up with it any more. BUT however tempting it is to rip him a new one over dinner, I'm not sure if that's up to me. For years, his family have just put up with his behaviour. And now I'm here, not putting up with is and what happens? I'm the troublemaker, the one that no-one gets along with. No-one starts questioning whether actually, his behaviour is unacceptable.

Which is why I think that H has to be the one to deal with it, as if I let rip and tell him what I think, the whole issue will just be palmed off onto me and nothing will change.

I suspect that if H says anything, they will talk behind his back about how I am the puppeteer (FIL does this anyway, thinks H should be in charge), but this has to be the best way to do things.

Of course, in order to get that far, I have to get H to see things my way. It's going to be a long night

i think you should just get on with it and try to laugh about it.

parents are annoying too and pil just add to it. but at the end of the day if you or they were sick in hospital dying from some horrible disease would you all rally around? that's the most important thing. not political differences over organic meat.

just tease him back. when he asks if the water organic tell him you've recyled the family urine as it's more environmentally friendly....so he doesn't need to take the piss, cos you are actually giving it away.

there are bigger wrongs and enemies in the world.

i think banning them from your house is totally ridiculous and over the top. of course it's your life but i wouldn't want to have a nasty rift like that going on in my family. what an example to set the children...if people can't even find a way to get on with annoying pil how on earth are we ever going to have peace in the middle east?

Ah, welcome the voice of dissent!

Kepler, I try not to confuse the issues of the middle east and my FIL, he is far too racist to discuss these things, I can do without rants about "towel heads"

This is not about organic meat.

I don´t see why people should be put up with at all costs just because they are relatives.

How does putting up with a bullying bore set a good example?

i agree with kepler message - families aren't perfect!! i wouldnt ban him from the house and say you can only meet at their house or whatever - it WILL cause a rift. but, you can certainly let him know how you feel.

i also dont think H should be the one to tackle him. H and MIL HAVE accepted his behaviour over the years; they love him warts and all.

I support the advice about 'calling' him on his behaviour, using the stuck-record technique if you can:

'Oh that organic meat, they just call it that and stick a fancy beige label on any old rubbish'.

'Now John, I think you are just saying that to try to provoke me and have an argument. But I am not going to argue with you.'

Later:

'Drama classes? WHy is she going to drama classes? I bet they are taught by a poof.'

'Now John, I think you are just saying that to try to provoke me and have an argument. But I am not going to argue with you.'

When he demands tea rudely, don't get up. Pretend that you can't hear or that you are really concentrating on whatever you are doing. After a minute or so, look around vaguely and say that you would love a cup if he is making one.

To add: your H won't tackle this because he is still in the parent/child dynamic with your FIL, but you don't have that dynamic to contend with and can just see him for what he is: a rude man.

Thank, BranchingOut

diddl i'm not saying "put up" with a bullying bore. that's not the assertive option. the assertive option is to manage the behaviour. it's not fight or flight, it's about being assertive.

it's about kids learning that you don't have to take criticism to heart, you can deflect a situation, take the edge out of it etc etc. tbh i think calling him a bully is probably a bit ott.

i'm a leftie veggie type and am well used to the sort of comments as described. a bit of wit returned can go a long way to deflect a situation.

i know if you weren't with your current partner this man is not someone you would invite into your house (and no doubt the same goes the other way). it's not about "putting up" with stuff for the sake of family. it's about managing it. not letting differences get out of hand.

i lost it over my mil a while back. we had her and bil in our 1 bed flat for 1 month. my oh had really been looking forward to the visit (they live overseas) and we'd spent lots of time and money planning stuff to do with them. she wouldn't eat anything i cooked, wouldn't enjoy going out anywhere and would start acting like she was ill to get her own way over doing nothing etc. tut tutted over the fact i bought a bottle of wine (she is a non drinking muslim) i was very understanding until the last week when she refused to go to an event i'd been looking forward to with friends and family. never lost it at her but did a bit with oh.

i still love her though (and she me i'm sure) and respect her as the woman who raised my OH. i'd have her over and put myself through it again. they're not going to be around forever and life is too short not to get over being annoyed.

"if people can't even find a way to get on with annoying pil"-but it´s up to everyone to try, isn´t it?

I´m afraid I don´t automatically respect people just because of thir age/relationship to me.

OMG are you me?!

My DH is living fear... If my FIL starts on me one more time... I will read the riot act and believe me I don't mince my words. A side none of the Out Laws have seen

I wouldn't be in this situation if other people didn't put up with his behaviour. So you sound exactly like me

Difference is I couldn't give a flying Monkey what they think of me now, hence DH being a little worried(but not worried enough to have a word... obviously)

Oh and I'm the mother of the only Grand Children they are ever going to have... SIL won't be having any but that's a different story and her behaviour is not much etter than his... although a little more subtle aaaaaaaaaaaargh