not sure what to do about DH's massive anti-feminism

[snowcherries]

Was going to post on feminism section but it's much more about our relationship than feminism really.

For various reasons I've taken a greater interest in feminism over the last year or, particularly since becoming a mother. I wrote a thread a while ago about not being sure if I loved DH anymore, well we're still ticking along, I haven't spoken to him and things seem ok but not right.

The feminism 'debate' is starting to really worry me. We sometimes manage to have good discussions about women's rights but more often than not they quickly descend into him shouting at me and telling to shut up if I won't bother listening to him - but I feel like it's HIM not listening to me because whenever I bring up anything vaguely feminist (eg a friend is part of a charity which supports women in Africa and is holding an event as part of International Women's Day, I asked if he wanted to come with me to to it seeing as I recently bought him Half of the Sky and he's getting really into it) he turns it into a personal attack about me being anti-men and just needing a soapbox to stand on.

It worries and upsets me we can't even have a decent discussion about this, and my views are far from radical, I feel I'm still working through a lot of ideas etc but I'm not allowed to talk through any of it with him because it is offensive and "a sign I turning into a feminist lesbian"

He was like this initially when we discussed homebirths for our child and now couldn't be a bigger advocate, so I'm sure if we can just find the right time to talk about it, or if he starts to talk about it with other men, then we might be able to go forward - but it's a bit worrying WE can't even have a very mild conversation about it.

It might not seem like a big thing, but is starting to be indicative of generally the way he treats me if I say anything against what he thinks he believes. And I don't know what to do because sometimes, on some issues, we have very good conversations - and this is important to both of us. But at the moment I'm finding I'm developing seperately from him because I'm not able to develop alongside him...

Can I ask a seemingly unrelated question? Are you a similar age or is he older than you? If he is older, he may be used to taking the lead in your relationship and may be finding your newly aired views a bit threatening.

FWIW, I would find it very hard to be with someone who wouldn't listen to my views and/or refused to engage in debate without becoming shouty.

Hi there. I am a feminist and I would s-t-r-g-g-l-e to be with someone who was disrespectful of my political/social views like that.

IMHO a good partner would be nurturing your exploration in this area.

He sounds very insecure. Often anger is driven by fear or pain. How could this be hurting him? What is he afraid of? If you could sit down and discuss that, then maybe you can get to the nub of the issue.

Maybe he is right to be worried that you'll start getting 'ideas' about how you want to be treated / not treated and maybe that is making him feel threatened.

I think he probably is scared, but I don't get how he doesn't understand that by being so aggressive and vocal it makes me feel trapped and drives a wedge between us

He's only 2 years older than me, we're both under 30...

I would tread carefully if I were you. I would be about any man who didn't agree with supporting women in Africa and women's day for example. I really can't believe that men STILL feel wierd about all of this.

The ''aggressive''; would also be a red flag for me. Do you mean ''aggressive'' as in abusive?

no, he just shouts a bit. it's riduclous because he whole heartedly supports women in africa (we volunteered together in zambia for a year) and women generally but whenever I talk about it, I suppose in relation to how my thoughts and feelings are developing, he goes on the defensive and makes it about being anti-men

the older he gets the more stuck in his beliefs and thought patterns he gets, and it's draining to have arguments that should just be sedate conversations because he just doesn't listen to me but assumes I'm finding ways to antagonise him or be anti-"him" in some way. They don't get resolved because he either leaves the room or tells me to shut up

That doesn't sound like an equitable relationship to me.
Ask what what the hell is his problem then.
You should be able to talk about it not either shout or leave the room.
He is being quite exist and disrespectful in not istening to you tbh.

Hope you get to talk.

Sounds like he doesn't like you having thoughts or interests of your own.

Probably best that you don't have much of a relationship left.

What TLD said.

It sounds as though you're developing a lot, in terms of political and self awareness (I will say "growing up" because I'm old & allowed to!) - and he isn't. Thus, he feels threatened because you're literally growing away from him. My guess is that's what underlies your ongoing relationship dissonance. You can't make somebody change or grow the way you want them to - and you'd be a fool to try, sad as it is.

You could either start ending it now, or shift your focus towards your own path and let him figure things out at his own pace. Either way, your relationship will not continue the way it is.

I don't know whether that'll sound to you like good news or bad.

He sounds like a man who thinks that feminism is OK and that women should be equal - but not quite as equal as men, because he doesn't want to give up his male privilege.
How's the housework divided up at home snowcherries? Here's the quickest, easiest way to calculate if it's fair or not: how much chore-free, child-free time do each of you have (outside of paid employment)?

I agree with those who say that he is scared you are growing away from him.

And instead of solving it by trying to grow with you, he's trying to stop you growing.

So er, not really functioning as a partner. They're supposed to nurture you, not stifle you.

How important is it to you to keep this relationship? Because unfortunately, unless you can sort this out with him and get him to see that you are changing and he can either come with you or you'll be off without him, I don't think you are going to be happy in this relationship in the long term.

Oh and I agree with SGB, a lot of men pay lip-service to equality, but only if it doesn't make any demands of them, to treat the women in their lives as equally valuable as themselves

he's the father of my son so it's pretty bloody important. I'm up and down about our relationship because I have changed massively since becoming a parent in some ways he has and in some he hasn't.

I do pretty much everything at home, am in charge of our finances and organise our lives. He works full time, I'm in an unstabel career which means often I'm not working but when I am it can be random hours then a lot of work out of the house. When this happens, the house falls apart and it takes me ages to get it back to normality - which I've brought up with him and he agrees is unfair, but he's a lazy bugger to be honest!

In many ways he is totally nuturing me, I can't imagine anyone else being so utterly supportive of me essentially following my dreams with my career which as yet pays no money and when it does barely covers the childcare. He is supportive in terms of taking time off to be with our son, ferrying our son to my parents' who also look after him, helps out with my company and is generally very cool about me staying out late wiht the people I work with.

This last thing though I know I'm taking advantage of him - I keep saying I'll be home by a certain time then geting drunk and coming home much much later. Was out on Saturday, kept him informed when I was coming home and stuck to it, then last night came home 3 hours after I said I was leaving and he was so angry because he was so worried. So he's not exactly the black and white bad guy in all this....

I should add that although I do everything at home, as I've pointed out I do get a lot of social time as well - more than he does because he just doensn't make the effort with friends and would rather have a quiet night in with tv or playstation time whereas I don't function without my friendships. So although I do all the housework etc he is the opposite of a man who keeps me tied to the home

Gosh, people are quick to say leave him on this occasion.

So he works full time & yours is intermittent so he feels housework is all yours. Hwr, he's not a dinosaur because he's a hands-on Dad and he supports your career.

So ideally:

• he should do some specific tasks in the evening/at the weekend
• you need to not roll in drunk at 3am having not let him know (& presumably caused him sleepless concern)
• he needs to stop telling you to shut up and learn to engage in good natured discussion, even if you disagree with each other.

This seems to be about being considerate and respectful to each other, valuing what each brings to the marriage. Worth exploring with him?

you're completely right kangaroo, I'm appalled by my own behaviour and ashamed and have no idea why I'm behaving like a rebelling teenager - he look very worried last night when I came home nd not just for my immediate safety but generally for me and my mindset. I have to respect him and the trust he places in me better.

I think the underlying issue is changing and growing and developing. Which is why maybe I'm reconsidering if I do still love him, because I feel like I just want to be on my own, but I have responsibilities and can't just disappear off to find myself. I'm also a total ostrich and keep my head in the sand so am rubbish at having these kind of conversations, especially as I don't really know what I want to say

Dittany - I appreciate you getting on my side over this but absolutely honestly he is supporting me in my career above and beyond in my opinion. He has watched porn in the past but I don't think his issue is with feminism, I think he's scared I'm growing apart from hi,, which I feel like I am too but I don't know how to rectify this

Please don't mistake me, it's not all you, he's not been behaving well either. It just sounds a bit more complex than just you talking about feminism & him kicking off.

Do you know what you want?

You mention an intermittent career - does that suit you? Do you want something more than what you have currently? Maybe less conventional roles? You mention ducking out of marriage (and motherhood(?)), that why I ask, so is this an indication of not being personally fulfilled? You push feminism conversations with him - why? (not a criticism - genuine Q) If you stayed within the marriage how would you like it to be? (he's resistant now - possibly out of fear - but you mentioned things that suggested he is/was receptive to new ideas)

Nobody is saying "leave him".

They're saying that he is disrepsectful of her and that if she is growing in one direction and he wants to stop her, then eventually they are going to be on different roads.

And that is not usually a good way to conduct a relationship.

It's just recognising that the way they are functioning as a couple now, is the beginning of "de-coupling" unless it is properly addressed, not just put up with or glossed over.

I love my career, it probably doesn't suit me in that it's very hard to be successful in it but I wouldn't change it for the world. It's also very social and DH has always been brilliant about letting me get on and do that (sorry to be obtuse, have name changed and have RL on MN and don't want to be outed)

I don't really know what I want to be honest - I definately don't want out of motherhood, I adore my son and would lay down my life for him. I think most of this stems from lack of freedom since becoming a wife and mother at a relatively young age, the things we talked about when we got together (travelling, seeing the world, living in different places) are a bygone dream because my sensible DH got us on the property ladder instead.

Every day I feel differently and swing and change and at the moment I feel horrendously selfish and ungrateful, yesterday I was really angry because I feel he's so stuck in his ways and belittles me just to play devil's advocate. He purposefully winds me up but then I'm no angel. I've lost my libido completely but am continuing to have sex with him because otherwise he'll know something is up

sigh....thankyou so much for the responses though

You've lost your libido and are going through the motions? Oh dear :( It's pretty normal to lose interest in sex during the first year or tow of your baby's life, you know. Tiredness, hormonal tides and the emotional disruptions take care of that. Most men take this on board - have you not discussed it with him?

Do you think there's any possibility he's picked up on your disaffection and, being uneducated in the vagaries of early parenthood, is feeling scared & resentful that you don't fancy him any more?

well I lost it and we talked about it and though he felt obviously a bit rejected he understood, then this summer I got it back again and was back to our usual rampant selves but I've lost it again now.

My behaviour would probably be a cause for concern, I'd be worried if the shoe was on the other foot - but he's as head in the sand as I am.

I don't think I really know what I want. Sorry, I sound so pathetic