not sure what to do about DH's massive anti-feminism

[snowcherries]

Was going to post on feminism section but it's much more about our relationship than feminism really.

For various reasons I've taken a greater interest in feminism over the last year or, particularly since becoming a mother. I wrote a thread a while ago about not being sure if I loved DH anymore, well we're still ticking along, I haven't spoken to him and things seem ok but not right.

The feminism 'debate' is starting to really worry me. We sometimes manage to have good discussions about women's rights but more often than not they quickly descend into him shouting at me and telling to shut up if I won't bother listening to him - but I feel like it's HIM not listening to me because whenever I bring up anything vaguely feminist (eg a friend is part of a charity which supports women in Africa and is holding an event as part of International Women's Day, I asked if he wanted to come with me to to it seeing as I recently bought him Half of the Sky and he's getting really into it) he turns it into a personal attack about me being anti-men and just needing a soapbox to stand on.

It worries and upsets me we can't even have a decent discussion about this, and my views are far from radical, I feel I'm still working through a lot of ideas etc but I'm not allowed to talk through any of it with him because it is offensive and "a sign I turning into a feminist lesbian"

He was like this initially when we discussed homebirths for our child and now couldn't be a bigger advocate, so I'm sure if we can just find the right time to talk about it, or if he starts to talk about it with other men, then we might be able to go forward - but it's a bit worrying WE can't even have a very mild conversation about it.

It might not seem like a big thing, but is starting to be indicative of generally the way he treats me if I say anything against what he thinks he believes. And I don't know what to do because sometimes, on some issues, we have very good conversations - and this is important to both of us. But at the moment I'm finding I'm developing seperately from him because I'm not able to develop alongside him...

yes I have...we married young after a bit of a whilrwind, he saved me from a major time of self destruction for which I will always be grateful.

But I have committed to this relationship by marrying him and having his baby, I can't walk out on it just because I might have made a mistake, don't I owe it to both of them to try to make it work. I just don't have the energy to though

SC, you can walk out on anything you want to.

I don't say that in a spirit of irresponsibility or glibness, I jsut want you to know that you don't have to put up with something because "you made your bed now lie in it". No-one has to be together with someone else because they wanted to be once so they feel they have to stick with it. People should be together because they broadly want to be, even if they don't want to be with that person today, they know that overall, they do want to be with that person in general.

Also re your question "Don't I owe it to them..."

What does he owe you? How is he trying to make it work?

What you owe your child: a happy childhood. How best to achieve that? By having an unhappy marriage? I don't think so,.

I'm not saying "leave him now". I'm just saying that if you know that's an option, you will negotiate with him from a position of strength, not weakness. Lots of people fall into the trap of bimbling along together, taking each other for granted. It's only when they realise that actually, they might lose this relationship, that they pull their finger out and start working properly on it.

That sometimes works and the relationship is saved, but the danger of waiting until that point, is that the other person has lost the love and commitment - it's all been used up. Don't let it get to that point - address the issue now, tell him how unhappy you are feeling, let him know that although this may not be a short term threat to your marriage, it is most certainly a long term one. (And actually hey, it might be a short term one - a friend of mine went from being mildy discontented but vaguely OK, to suddenly making the decision to divorce and was implacably unswayed by any arguments, within a month. People's feelings and perceptions can change really suddenly, relationships need to be nourished and it doesn't sound like this one is being.)

Wise post, HBX. OP, you sound terribly confused about your own feelings. I do wish you'd sort out some counselling for yourself; it just helps to have an unbiased sounding board (who's seen it all, and worse, before.)

At the moment you are building a marriage on emotional dishonesty and game-playing. You can't carry on like this - for either of your sakes, let alone the atmosphere that DC will grow up to believe is the best available :(

I am massively confused in all honesty. Maybe some counselling is the way to go - but if I tell DH then he'll definately worry, but I can't really go alone and not tell him and figure it out just for myself can I?

Maybe I'm just going through a depressional phase again and and blaming it on my relationship

Why not let him worry, if he wants to? If you're feeling depressed, counselling will help you sort out your thoughts :)

What are you afraid he'll worry about?

Your relationship? In which case that's a good thing, he should be worrying about it.

That you ahve got depression again? In which case, talk to him about what's really worrying you - your relationship.

here i am again.

snowcherries you are describing my marriage - as in often the case on these threads. sigh.

i am looking for a feminist group to join locally at the moment (dittany etc please jump in and tell me where to look!). i wont telly dh just yet because i know what he will say though he wont technically stop me going. he will go on about how its ant i men the same way he does if we discuss domestic violence or rape (since i am a sw the former comes up often). he is totally unable to discuss anything about it without bleating to the point of hysteria about how women hate men because these things happen to me nadn what about them blah and that he was a victim (ex girlfriend thumped him once or twice whilst drunk during argument - not right but he is no victim!!)

i could go on and on with such examples but however - question for you snowcherries, does your dh get jealous if a conversation isnt about him/doesnt really involves him? does he attention seek when this happens?

Could this disrespect of feminism actually be clouding another issue though? Does he perhaps feel that you're using feminism to tell him that he's not enough for you, and in turn he feels threatened by it and lashes out?

Just because what you've said doesn't really add up. He's helped women on Africa, he's happy for you to go out drinking till late, yet attacks women's rights. Maybe he's defending something instead?

It sounds like he needs to pull his weight a bit more around the house and appreciate what you do when he is at work.He is probably scared the 'new' you will leave him behind and so he is treating you like this in case he gets hurt.Sit down talk I think leaving him is a bit radical tbh as you are both getting a good deal out of this situation most of the time.He sounds a bit selfish but not a bad person!

noddyholder you are utterly right. The last few days things seem a bit better between us, I've no idea how or why but am aware this is how it has been the last year or so, we dip and have a period where I really question it, never rbing anything up and we get back onto an even keel. I'm not really up for sex at all still though so still not quite right.

We have a very good deal, but maybe it's just that it could be better? He's intensely selfish sometimes, but incredibly supportive at others. We probably just need to have words and that is down to me as I'm such a head in the sand type person who alwasy avoids confrontation, but as Grace says, I'm thereby building our relationship on emotional dishonesty