Romantic life completely over at 42 am I being self-indulgent / selfish?

[ostracized]

Hi

Have just been reading lots of Coming Apart: Why Relationships End and How to Live Through the Ending of Yours by Daphne Rose Kingma (have included link in case anyone is interested). There is a coda at the end which gives lots of the signs that a relationship is effectively over, and I could relate to LOTS of it. In fact the familiarity of it all was a bit like coming home. I don't need a book to tell me that my marriage is a marriage in name only and not really a relationship, but it did help me to feel that I am not really imagining things. I suppose the things that stand out the most are the emotional distance, boredom and pointless arguments endlessly re-hashing the same things.

It's a very comforting book which was written to help people going through separations to view their relationships as things to be thankful for (in terms of what they had received from them) and to accept that in fact "moving on" from relationships is perfectly normal.

I accept all of this BUT dh and I have 3 children who are 4, 6 and 9. DH and I can rumble along fairly peacefully during the week. Weekends are more tricky and dh does have a controlling, bad tempered side which I don't like. However, the thought of divorce or separation and the consequent trauma for the children as well as for me being separated from them during the time that dh would be with them is very frightening. Also maybe I am not being fair to all around to even be daydreaming about such a thing and I should get on with looking after them as best as possible???

Dh and I occasionally sleep together (which is always nice when it happens) but there is no affection between us. One of the many phrases I related to in the book was "There may still be short interludes in which you share a social event, a sexual encounter, or a recreational experience with your children, but basically the majority of your intimate contact is in the battle zone."

I am going to be 42 next week and I feel dried up and washed up, can't believe no man is ever going to tell me I look nice or that they want to be close to me again. Also there must be someone out there who would really like to spend time with me for me???

Anyway - without being harsh please, do you think I should just get over myself, stop moaning and look after my children and family life?

How long have you been together for? Does your husband not communicate with you much at all?

No you shouldn't get over yourself - you deserve better and he needs to try harder.

Together for 15 years, married for 9. No he is not a talker really. We talk about the children and some practical stuff. He occasionally tells me something about his work and I occasionally tell him something about my volunteering but that is kind of it. No disclosures about feelings at all. No kind words if I am feeling down - he wouldn't even know if I was feeling down let alone us talking about it.

this sounds very sad and completely boring, like you have grown poles apart

everyone deserves kind words, some interest shown in them and for you to fancy the arse off each other

you two sound like flatmates that don't even like each other very much

what will happen when the kids don't need you so much, your eyes meet over the dinner table and you boh relaise you don't even know each other (or even care very much)

would you both consider counselling to try and figure if you really do want to be together, or failing that, so that you can separate amicably ?

this sounds awful

both realise

No he is not a talker really

He never compliments you, buys you flowers, tells you you're beautiful, takes care of you? That's awful, but presumeably he did once? Do you think you could both get some time away, just the two of you?

everyone deserves kind words, some interest shown in them and for you to fancy the arse off each other

Oh yes indeed, AnyFucker.

You sound really sad - and I'm not surprised - hard to live with someone who gives you little or no affection.

Have you discussed your needs for love, affection, engagement from your DH with him? Does he know you are contemplating separating?

You deserve to be loved and happy and to have someone who appreciates you loving them. Hard to contemplate a split but you have more than enough reason in what you've said to leave and seek out a close relationship elsewhere.

I would also like to say you are very vulnerable to having an affair

it wouldn't be all that difficult to imagine you getting your head turned by someone who shows an interest, pays you compliments, is interested in you etc

I am not saying you would (I don't know you of course)...but don't underestimate the power of someone else finding you attractive...

Ostracized - just had a thought that may help - have you discussed your situation with any relevant professionals? Like a solicitor and relationship counsellor? The reason I ask is you sound (understandably) daunted by the task of separating with 3 children and I wondered if you were to seek some confidential advice about the practicalities of a split, ie what the first steps would be, finances etc it might help you to feel less daunted

There are a lot of clammed-up men out there, I think. So much gets in the way of what could and should be. We can get so inside ourselves, bothered by work, by how hard life can be; and then we forget to really LOOK at our wives, our partners, our girlfriends and remember how much we love them and how beautiful they are; how the hair hangs just-so over their left eye and how we used to raise a hand and brush it back behind their ears and kiss them on the mouth. And flowers, always flowers.

How to break a man out of such a shell I don't know, though. Time together, just the two of you would be important - no pressure, no massive expectations, just being a couple and having some fun.

I'm sorry belgianbun - do you have children?
At christmas I sent dh an email to end a long silence (from him) - he comes from a family of sulkers and he hadn't talked to me properly following an argument two months previously. In the email (which did end the silence and we had a nice time at christmas where we got on well but this ended on the 31st of december when he got back to being his occasionally unpleasant occasionally ironic at my expense, self) I did say, amongst other things, that I wanted an affectionate, loving relationship and that I wanted to go to counselling. Also that counselling would help us separate amicably if it came to that. He did not respond to the email itself but did stop his sulk and behaved well for about a week. He has not gone back to sulking but we have gone back to being ships in the night.
Really I think you are right AF - we do need to go to counselling but he has always been very anti the idea in the long ago past and I am "scared" to broach the idea.
We are both very into the kids and he is very hard-working (can be something of a workaholic). I don't think he would deserve his whole life to be carved up or the children - after all it is not their fault that their mum and dad are not really on the same wavelength any more.

It's as if I have so many thoughts waiting to be thought and things waiting to be said, but I cannot express these things with dh. He is very closed and kind of sets the agenda of what we talk about. I can talk and talk and talk to some of my friends but somehow nothing sounds very eloquent or intelligent (that comes out of my mouth) when I talk to him.

At christmas I sent dh an email

counselling

if he won't try it, can you see yourself still in this rubbish half-relationship 10 years from now ?

I am sorry, love but from what you have said, if he really won't countenance counselling, it would be a deal breaker for me

I cannot imagine being so neglected within a marriage

he didn't speak to you for 2 months ?

that is fucking pathetic, to be quite frank

have you posted before about this ?

I suspect your DH would be staggered to know what you're really thinking. He's probably jogging along comfortably thinking there's no problem with his marriage. Some men aren't big talkers, and are not demonstrative. Does he show he cares about you in other, perhaps rather practical ways?

sorry, missed the three posts after belgianbun's.
Yes might be vulnerable to an affair I suppose but chance would be a fine thing - also dh is my first ever boyfriend and feel oddly naive in a way so can't see it happening - also, feel as if I look old and this does not help my confidence in any way! Had crush on one of my daughter's teacher for past 3 years - don't really see him nowadays but know crush would re-surface if I did - he is married anyway, but I always used to feel "bubbles of happiness" (sounds dreadfully corny I know) if he was around. Anyway he is a magnetic character very well loved by the children at school so I'm sure I'm not the only woman he has had this effect on.
Mimblesson, yes time just the two of us might be good - don't know when though and dh wants us always to go out as a family.

loves2cycle - going to see a solicitor would be too scary I think but counsellor yes, totally agree

Sorry cross-posted

have missed more messages -

almostgrownup, maybe you are right - the way he shows caring to the family as a whole is by cooking a lot for us and by working hard, he is very serious about providing and is not helped by having been in debt for about 7 years now

I know the email thing sounds bizarre but I did it because I did not know how to start a conversation face to face about such emotive things and at least writing it down gave me a chance to say it all

yes AF I MUST ask him about the counselling, I keep on putting this off however...

dh wants us always to go out as a family

I hope you can persuade him otherwise If you haven't had time together just as a woman and a man for a long time, it's possible to forget what it's really all about.

Oh it must be just awful to live with someone who is sulking for 2 months. You must wonder what he is getting out of that - what benefit? How can his issue be so important to him that he can treat you like that for so long? A day of being pissed off with the other person is bad enough, I couldn't cope with it stretching to 3 or 4 days, but 2 months.

A relate counsellor may be able to help you sort through this on your own and may act as a huge emotional and practical support during any decision making/ separating stage. I have phone counselling through relate and it helps - I can say all my crazy 3am thoughts and she helps me to work it through. I always feel so much better after each session, no matter how challenging/painful the issue I chose to discuss.

missed more posts - yes the sulking was AWFUL loves2cycle, I suppose this is one of the things (and also things I have done no doubt) that has dramatically reduced the closeness between us
yes mimblesson, totally agree - "it's possible to forget what it's really all about" - I think this is really really true and the kids also would benefit from us getting back to our sexual and loving past selves, don't know if this is possible though anymore as we have both changed
yes AF, have posted about dh before

don't know if this is possible though anymore as we have both changed

Or both been buried under routine and responsibility.

Maybe it's time to be a little wilder.

Can you get childcare and book into a hotel somewhere for a weekend away? Or even for an evening in a restuarant?

one thing to remember, ostracised

you can't do this by yourself

and if he thinks the solution to disagreements is to just stop talking to you for 2 months his input in successfully restoring your relationship is to be seriously questioned

Well a weekend away would be nice as long as the kids were doing something nice too - possibly staying with my sister though don't know if she would be able to have them for two days running. Would feel slightly guilty that we were not taking them as well as they love going on trips. DH would definitely want to take them. I suppose one of the differences between us is that he is Indian and has told me before that he does not want to do the English thing (ie. husband and wife go out to dinner together and get babysitter for kids) but wants to do the Indian thing (children plus mother and father go out together). There isn't much arguing with that in a way. The other day I asked him if he wanted to go to my friend's house for dinner (she had invited us as well as another couple) he said - "with the children?" I said "no" - he looked disappointed and then glumly agreed to it. I then decided I would go by myself as don't want to drag someone along kicking and screaming. He never found out I had decided that however as in the end I did not go either due to an essay I am supposed to be writing which I still haven't finished.

does he want to make it better ?

or is he quite content with the way things are ?

it's all pretty low-effort on his part isn't it

some emotionally lazy men are quite happy to stagnate until you die

not a great prospect, is it ?

especially since from what you have said, the most attention he pays you is of a negative nature