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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Romantic life completely over at 42 am I being self-indulgent / selfish?

42 replies

ostracized · 11/01/2011 20:59

Hi

Have just been reading lots of Coming Apart: Why Relationships End and How to Live Through the Ending of Yours by Daphne Rose Kingma (have included link in case anyone is interested). There is a coda at the end which gives lots of the signs that a relationship is effectively over, and I could relate to LOTS of it. In fact the familiarity of it all was a bit like coming home. I don't need a book to tell me that my marriage is a marriage in name only and not really a relationship, but it did help me to feel that I am not really imagining things. I suppose the things that stand out the most are the emotional distance, boredom and pointless arguments endlessly re-hashing the same things.

It's a very comforting book which was written to help people going through separations to view their relationships as things to be thankful for (in terms of what they had received from them) and to accept that in fact "moving on" from relationships is perfectly normal.

I accept all of this BUT dh and I have 3 children who are 4, 6 and 9. DH and I can rumble along fairly peacefully during the week. Weekends are more tricky and dh does have a controlling, bad tempered side which I don't like. However, the thought of divorce or separation and the consequent trauma for the children as well as for me being separated from them during the time that dh would be with them is very frightening. Also maybe I am not being fair to all around to even be daydreaming about such a thing and I should get on with looking after them as best as possible???

Dh and I occasionally sleep together (which is always nice when it happens) but there is no affection between us. One of the many phrases I related to in the book was "There may still be short interludes in which you share a social event, a sexual encounter, or a recreational experience with your children, but basically the majority of your intimate contact is in the battle zone."

I am going to be 42 next week and I feel dried up and washed up, can't believe no man is ever going to tell me I look nice or that they want to be close to me again. Also there must be someone out there who would really like to spend time with me for me???

Anyway - without being harsh please, do you think I should just get over myself, stop moaning and look after my children and family life?

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ostracized · 11/01/2011 22:04

his input in successfully restoring your relationship is to be seriously questioned Grin - I completely agree AF

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fridayschild · 11/01/2011 22:05

DH and I split up last year, from a poor marriage - we were more like flatmates. One of the reasons was that we did not want the DC to grow up feeling that our relationship was normal. I also wanted to end the marriage before things got so bad we could not do it amicably. Mitigating the effect on the DCs, then 7 and 5, was really important to us and we have both been focussed on that.

They spend half the time with their father now and half with me. And yes it is awful when they are with him, and I would rather he saw them alternate weekends only. But it is not about what would be nice for me, it is what would be best for them. Not living with DH any more is certainly a whole lot nicer for me. I caught up with a couple of friends over Christmas both of whom remarked on how happy the children were. They really look forward to seeing their dad, and taking stuff to him.

I would suggest you try counselling. I am not very introspective and I thought a lot of it was bunk, to be honest, but there were a couple of things she said which were useful.

There has been a lot of good advice on this thread. I can't add to that, but I hope my experience is useful.

HerBeatitude · 11/01/2011 22:06

Sorry but this doesn't sound like a relationship to me.

It sounds desperate.

I think you've got so used to being unhappy, that you can't imagine being happy anymore.

2 month sulking? That's a man who doesn't have any interest in having a relationship with you.

ostracized · 11/01/2011 22:10

I don't know if he wants to make it better. Realises relationship is not good I think but has decided to concentrate on children completely so all his love and affection goes to them. Yes to negative nature of attention. Do feel as if I am stagnating till I die. Take us at the moment - both on separate laptops in the livingroom.
I sometimes wish he would go on a long trip (somewhere that would make him happy - he likes the sun) and leave me to work out all my thoughts and be peaceful as well as sort out mountains of clutter that I have accumulated. The kids and him would miss each other dreadfully because of course in my daydream they stay here (couldn't miss SCHOOL could they Blush), that would be the only problem.

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ostracized · 11/01/2011 22:15

hes HerBeatitude - he has no interest in having a relationship with me - at least in the way that you or I would conceive of it, but it may be that different things are going on in his head?? Maybe it's true that either of us can't imagine being happy anymore.
fridayschild - thank you very much for your message - I'm glad you are happier and that your children are doing well - that is what I am very scared of - that I will be a part-time mother and surely mothers are supposed to be full-time by the very nature of being mothers (not saying that fathers are not) - sorry don't in any way want to sound judgemental as I am totally not, but can't imagine how I would feel if one of them was ill and I couldn't be there to look after them. Also dh and I would have to get on really well to co-parent I think, it's almost easier to stay living with him! Do you find co-parenting easy?

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ostracized · 11/01/2011 22:16

meant "yes" herbeatitude

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dobiegirl · 11/01/2011 22:43

My ex-husband is the same ostracized. We have been separated for nearly a year now. He was never a big talker, never very romantic, strict with the children and what struck a chord most with me was when you mentioned the emotional distance. At times this was very painful for me. He wouldn't come on holiday anywhere or even round the supermarket with me and the kids, I honestly started to feel like he was ashamed to be with me, but I'm a good looking girl so couldn't understand it.

We had 2 children together and he grew more and more distant. We were still intimate together at times, but I hated it, because I knew he was doing it for his own benefit (iyswim) and it wasn't really about being close to me.

I made excuses for him for 10 years. He is from the Middle East and I know that for men and women over there it's not necessarily about being in love and being best pals, but more about the convenience of marriage.

I know that by telling you this, it doesn't help you in the slightest and I can't even offer you any solutions because I can't save my own marriage but I just wanted to let you know you're not alone - I know you're not happy.

ostracized · 11/01/2011 22:55

I'm sorry dobiegirl about your marriage - were you the one who initiated the separation? Can I ask how he took it and if he is good at co-parenting with you?

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ostracized · 11/01/2011 23:19

Am about to go to bed. Wanted to say thank you to everyone who posted on my thread. I think that's what I would like with dh - to be able to discuss all sorts of things on an even footing. To be able to have thoughts about our relationship and actually talk about it in an emotionally mature and open way. Instead I feel as if I am going to be permanently emotionally and intellectually stunted (sorry, a bit unkind and maybe grandiose - it's possible that dh feels that I am completely dim anyway, I don't actually think dh is dim at all, just completely and utterly emotionally uncommunicative, as well as quite cynical and negative about lots of things).
Thanks again.

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dobiegirl · 11/01/2011 23:31

Thanks, I don't think either of us initiated it at first, we were just both so miserable that it became inevitable that it was going to happen.

Do you know how crushing it is to watch someone sat on the sofa looking so unhappy night after night? I used to try and cheer him up but after a few years, I'd got really unhappy too and it was then that I noticed that he did nothing to reach out to me, even though in a way he'd been the one to make me sad by being so closed off and distance all the time, I just realised that HE DIDN'T CARE!!!

I got so frustrated, and last february asked him to move out, I was relieved when he went and I think he was too. The situation has only gone on to get worse really, he was seeing our kids but then he started saying that he found the kids hard work, so since he walked out on New years day I haven't seen him or been able to get hold of him, so I don't know if he has decided he doesn't want to see our children anymore. So no co-parenting hasn't worked with us. x

loisebony · 12/01/2011 10:43

Similar situation....I too sent an e-mail to H as cannot communicate-ends up in argument.

I feel miserable-H never plans anything -happy in front on computer.

We have 2 boys 12y and 14y....neither of us want to leave them...
Im 50 though......just how much longer do you carry on because the thought of seperation is traumatic.....but I want a life-something to look forward to....boys will grow up and go there own way.....H says 'his' problem is me when I ask him but he wont 'move on' just happy to constantly blame me....Ive done the counselling-he wont do that again....just happy sat in his chair..

Life is precious isn't it.....I dont see 'us' changing-it's not good for boys either-somehow a decision has to be made-no-one likes a marriage to fail but when it is so miserable and everything has been 'tried' what else can you do but get into a 'better' place where everyone is happier...a huge step to take ...but can be done...some day I feel scare-others I feel liberated at the thought....
Have a house to sell-cannot do anything until that happens and cannot do it without him agreeing...very difficult and tense at times..thankyou goodness I have a good job and friends and family ......
I feel for you x

cestlavielife · 12/01/2011 10:56

get to counselling yourself. helps to talk things thru with someone.

with view to deciding if you will stay and take it as it is - or decide to leave.

loves2cycle · 12/01/2011 11:11

ostracized I was thinking about your situation this morning - all the way through a very boring work meeting which I now can't remember much of!

Sorry to hear you are in a similar situation loise

Firstly ostracized of course you deserve a romantic life and you deserve so much better than this from your partner. OK so weekly flowers/daily back massages etc might be unrealistic (though I have a friend whose DH brings her flowers every friday night on his way home from the station!) but you deserve someone who is interested in you and your day, who seeks out a kiss/cuddle from you just because he wants that connection, who listens to your views and responds to those views, not a partner who 'sets the agenda for what will or will not be discussed' or who ignores you for any period of time, let alone 2 months at a time. You need someone who says positive things about you infront of the children so they grow up understanding that when you love someone you tell them frequently and tell others too!

You sound lovely but your DH has chipped away your confidence so you are now doubting whether you deserve a romantic life or not. Of course you do!

How to get it? I think you have 2 options. Either force your DH to listen (and I'll explain how in a sec) and force him to make changes in his behaviour, or start the process of separating, set up with the children without him and once you've recovered from all that, start thinking about enjoying your life and that might include looking for a man who can meet your needs.

How to force your DH to listen? He is clearly not hearing what you say, or hearing it slightly, making small changes and then going back to his old ways as he thinks you've calmed down and he's done enough. So you're back in your box at that point. If I were you (and I've done this fairly recently and I agree with you - it was scary), I would look online for a firm of solicitors near to you, phone them and ask to speak confidentially to a family law solicitor. Explain that you're not sure if what you're going through with your DH is grounds for separation and divorce but would appreciate some advice. Outline your situation. They will tell you their view/or ask you to come in for an initial consultation. (It is likely they will agree what you are being put through is unreasonable behaviour, therefore grounds for divorce, but you need to hear that from them.)

Then armed with this back up, you could tell your DH you have been so upset over recent years with his behaviour and lack of long term change that you sought the advice of a solicitor and this is it......

Then express your view (if this is it anyway!) that your preference would be to have one last, really big effort to change your marriage into one where both parties needs are met, before separating but that if after 6 months of trying, there is no change, you will start separating with help from Relate or some such place. You then need to set conditions on the trying - ie weekly counselling, other time together as a couple, respect for you and your views, no ironic comments that are actually disguised put-downs, no sulking, positive views of you expressed infront of children etc.

Sorry if this is long - your situation really touched me and I want you to feel empowered to do something about this because you don't have to carry on trying to adapt to this as though it's normal or as though it's all you are worth, because it isn't normal and it certainly isn't all you are worth!

ostracized · 13/01/2011 21:18

Thanks for the messages I haven't responded to yet :) I hear (well, I say hear, more like "read on mumsnet") so many stories of relationships that are kind of dead - must be more common than I thought. Felt sad for you loisebony - why do you have to wait for him to agree to sell the house, if you were to separate (know this is a terrifying thought) then wouldn't the house have to be sold and the equity split?

Yes must go to counselling by myself - I keep on saying that but I actually have to do it because at least will feel that I am actually doing SOMETHING.
Thanks for your kind words and all your thoughts loves2cycle - can't believe you thought about my thread at your meeting! Yes you are right, it is true that I have more power than I think I have. It's just that I can't stop thinking that if I start separation proceedings, then I am eventually not going to be able to be with my children all the time. I know you weren't saying separate straight away, but I don't know if dh is capable of changing the way he is or me the way I am or if we would be flogging a dead horse. But you are totally right to say that there is stuff which can be done. I think the next six months are for me to sort through clutter in house, finish my teaching assistant course that I am doing, do some exercise and generally feel better about myself. Also go to counselling. If I concentrate on all of that then maybe I will have a clearer picture in my head. Take now for instance, dh has just come back from delivering something in the centre of town (one of the things he does is make furniture) and has been laughing about all the flights of stairs he had to climb. I think in a way he has little idea of how I feel - knows in one way that things are not good, but gets carried away with his spurts of bad temper and work problems and I am the last thing on his mind. He has no idea of how I feel about lots of things. He called me a "heffalump" today (could lose about half a stone) so I'm afraid I asked him did he want to know what I thought of him and it was too rude to say and to f* off (kids were all at school so they did not hear this). Then I came back from the post office and we resumed superficial chat. I'm just completely bored.
You say that you sent to see a solicitor, loves2cycle - are things better with your dh now?

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ostracized · 13/01/2011 21:19

dobiegirl - sofas figure quite largely in our life too!!!!! Boring isn't it??

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loves2cycle · 14/01/2011 12:21

ostracized I do know the fear you describe when you say

It's just that I can't stop thinking that if I start separation proceedings, then I am eventually not going to be able to be with my children all the time

and I would be scared of the same thing - a dreadful missing them every other weekend and the immense sadness of perhaps missing the occasional birthday or christmas. But I have seen friends go through that situation and come out fine the other side. That yes there is a period of grieving when you feel really very sad and lost with all the time on your hands (that you didn't ask for and don't want), but that fades and becomes easier as you start to enjoy activities in those times that you couldn't do with children. The exercise you mention, meeting new friends etc. AND the benefits of a happy home set up for you and happy mum for your kids is huge - don't underestimate how relaxed and enjoyable that could be in the longer term once the dust had settled.

Being called a heffalump is horrid, does your DH think that is going to cheer you up somehow? Or is he quite happy to have you feel miserable and unloved?

If you don't feel up to contacting a solicitor at this stage, then go for the individual counselling. I know there are loads of organisations out there but i found it a bit daunting to go through the phone book and find a counsellor, so I just used Relate as I felt at least I knew they were trained to a certain standard and operated within a professional framework. Why don't you phone them today? Before you do the school run and start the whole weekend/family thing? Phone them and get started with some support for you.

And try and arrange to meet a friend this weekend who will do a bit of boosting you up. Tell them you're feeling down because your DH called you a heffalump and watch them grimace/look at you in disbelief before they tell you you're lovely! I think you need a bit of that type of support right now, I know I would.

giveitago · 14/01/2011 14:07

ostracized - I'm your age and in your situation with your fears so it resonates.

I'm following this thread and wishing you the best.

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