bored with unromantic dh

[soggy14]

Have been with dh for about 16 years. Ups and downs but always very secure relationship. 3 children. Now dh appears completely uninterested in any kind of "romantic couple type" behaviour. We have sex fairly often (1-2 a week) which is fine but he is uninterestd in going out together (always wants to take the kids) or even just cuddling up on the sofa. I've tried to explain how strongly I feel about this as I cannot see our relationship surviving indefinately like this - I feel like some kind of live in house keeper who also does sex :( rather than half a couple. He is currenly putting a fair amount of minor prssure on me to dress mor seductively for sex (posh undies etc) and I've said that I'm happy to get dressed up if he takes me out somewhere nice but he then goes on about how it is just a waste of money to go out to eat etc. Any suggestions? We talk a lot - at home and we get on very well adn the sex is fine - it is just that I cannot get him to understand that I need to be occasionally treated like an attractive woman and wined and dined a bit. He will not even cook for me at home, or even get a take away and light a couple of candles etc - says that it is all just pointless gloss and not important. I've started back at work now so am meetign other men and am really worried that I will end up having an affair because I am so desparate to just be made to feel special again and not be taken for granted. He does do lots of lovely things (like deice the car for me :) ) just nothing ever even slightly romantic (says that thigs like birthday cards are a waste of money etc).

Hmm ... is it worth pointing out to him that you see posh undies etc as pointless gloss - but you recognise that it's important to him, and are happy to accommodate him, within reason - and you want the same from him?

Did he used to be keen on nice meals out? What changed?

try and work through it with him. afterall you have been together for 16 years'. i understand everything you are saying as i have been with my DH for 19 years' and he is like a pair of slippers. I love him but it is not exactly dynamic.

He is not keen on going out either.

I do get your thing about the other men too but he sounds like a good dad and cares about his children.

or go out with some girlfriends. that is what i tend to do.

Sorry to hear. How about telling him about your fear; the fact that you see other men treating women nicely and that you crave this etc.

He is a good dad, works hard etc. We did used to go out when we were "courting", he was great then - opened doors for me (even the car door!), would buy me flowers etc but he seems to have decided that now that we are committed then all that is unnecessary. After we had dd we never went out alone together for 7 years! We have now (over the last 3 years) got to the stage where we go out for the odd meal whilst his parents have the kids but we have to eat at 6.30 and be back by 8.30 (his insistance - his mother says "take as long as you like" but he then says that we cannot take advantage of her and stay later. He will also not go out with, or be friends with, any other couples so whilst I do have some GFs and do occasionally go out with them, it is actually quie hard to make adn maintain relationships as everyone seems to get to the stage where they want to meet you roh or go out for Sunday lunch with all the kids or meet up for NY or somethign and I can never do this as dh will not.

I think he does have a point about candles and meals out being pointless gloss but it is important to you and a loving husband would want to give you what you want and make you happy.

DH and I have had issues and he always listens and takes on board what I have said, as I have when he has issues with me.

Tdada have told him - he even pointed out a letter in a magazine to me where someone had writtenin to say that they had nearly had an affair because their relationship had gone so off-the-boil and because they were bored with their dh etc adn he said "you could have written that, it is exactly what you keep saying". The answer (it was a problem page) was to start "dating" as a coupel again - I pointed this out to him and he wouldn't believe me (made me find the letter to prove it) as he says that you shouldn't need to "work at" relationships but that if you really love someone then it will all just come naturally and be fine.

Iamfab usually he does take things on board - he just seems to have a really issue with this kind of thing. I think that it is because he really cannot understand that it is important to me - ie if we row about housework then hde does actually do more of it (now we both work) as he can see the point of having a clean house but he really cannot see the point of any kind of "romance" (and I don't mean over the top romance - just time alone together without the children - they do not sleep well and are often up until 10pm so we do not get to spend evenings alone together (and ds2 still comes into our bed every night so coitus interruptus is a bit of a way of life rather than a contraceptive choice )

If you just get the affair thing out of your head, just make it not an option then you don't need to worry. It would be like me worrying that in the future I'm going to get both arms tattooed or go into space - its just never going to happen! It almost sounds like you want to have an affair and you are paving the way with your justification.

On the other hand, sounds like he's just not listening to you and thats not good. He has to understand that if he's not prepared to take you out he should at least cook and fool about with candles and some fancy cake or something. He has to meet you half way - thats not just romantic, thats respect. Just don't put yourself in the wrong because of his shortcomings. You are better than that.

I can't actually see myself being physically unfaithful - more that I can see myself gettign caught up in some kind of emotional affair which I suspect is worse :( because I am so increasingly (over the last 5 years say) feeling that I need to feel female again and that I want to have proper conversations where the other person actually listens to you rather than half listening whilst he watches TV and/or deals with the ever present children. Even when I say that it would be nice to stay away for a night (his parents are happy to BS) so we could dress up, go out, get a bit tipsy and have rampent sex doesn't work as he says that I can dress up for him at home (which he wants me to) whilst he slobs around in revolting old clothes and that we can have sex here and that having to stop half way through as ds has appeared isn't that bad as we can wait for him to go back to sleep and start again.

soggy14- is it money that he is worried about or is he just a "flat-mood" sort of person?

it isn't just the money (although that is part of it - he is tight) as I've also suggested that we just get his parents to have the kids and stay in and cook something nice - he just can't see the point in making time for us to be alone together without the children. I've tried asking him to do really small and specific things (like saying that it would be really nice if he poured me a glass of wine, or made me a cup of tea) but he just says "why can't you pour your own wine, it it really that hard" and cannot seem to understand that there is a huge difference between opening the wine yourself and pouring a glass and someone handing you a glass.

In your situation I think I would feel so unspecial that I wouldn't feel like having sex or dressing up at all. I would need to say that. He is not making you feel like his romantic partner so I'm not surprised you feel a bit like a glorified housekeeper.

Maybe you should say that unless he starts seeing you as a romantic partner and finding ways to appeal to you in that way, your interest in him as a romantic partner will fizzle out. It will in time and he needs to face that reality.

Do you start having sex once your DS is back to sleep while he's in your bed still? I couldn't do that, it would not feel right at all. Maybe you carry him back to his own bed before you start up again? Was that was you meant?

Relate. I honestly think he isn't hearing you - a third party pushing him is required. It may give him the shock he needs.

I'm really sorry, he is being an emotionally lazy sod. "No need to work at relationships" means "I can't be arsed and am justifying it." DH is naturally like this, but knows it upsets me so he tries.

I would imagine your DH's refusal to bother to make you feel loved makes you feel very unloved. He is taking you so for granted it isn't true - and he is an idiot to do so. This is not 1950, and women have options.

we do have sex with ds asleep in the bed - he was in with us permanantly for nearly 4 years so we'd have had no sex at all if we hadn't. I did try stopping having sex (for 3 years) - he didn't seem to mind (as long as I sorted him out so to speak). When I refused to "sort him out" he did it himself and said that he was just resigned to never having sex again as I no longer felt like it. When I said that I would feel like it if he was a bit more caring/romamtic; if we watched a rom/com or something say then he'd say that he'd try and we woul dwatch something romamtic but he'd then just say that he wasn't in the mood as romamtic films didn't turn him on.

Sounds to me like he is getting it all his way without having to put any effort in so that why he doesn't see the point in any of the romantic stuff. The 'point' of you not having to pour your own wine is to show you that he can be bothered to make a bit of effort to make you feel good. Although I hate to suggest something as manipulative as withholding sex to get what you want, you could try that tack. I mean, I bet if you said you weren't in the mood because you didn't feel he appreciated you for a week or so it wouldn't take long for the dinner and candles to come out!

I think if it was me I'd book a table, arrange for the PILs to have the kids and telling him to spruce up and turn up at the restaurant or else!

Can you do the things you suggest? i.e. You book a restaurant, arrange childcare and call him half an hour before finish work and say 'meet you there'? Would he enjoy this? Or take the dcs to mil and wait for him with a nice meal and pour the wine for him.
Some people respond to this. You display what you want and the other person will copy you and then do the same for you.

Also, does he prefer something spontaneous rather than well planned?

sorry rocket ex-post

Oh sorry soggy14 cross post there, maybe not then :( oh dear, he does sound rather intractable about the whole thing. I think maybe a 3rd party might give him a wake up call. I wonder if he might take it more seriously if he thought/knew the entire relationship was at risk.

Random wonderings here:
Is there a money issue here rather than anything else? Or even does he see an issue with money? (ie: you have enough but he still worries)
Re: cooking/food/meals, OH used to try this with a 'well why go out to eat when you're a much better cook and this way neither of us has to drive' so I?d book a cab and a menu/type of food that I didn?t cook, and tell him it was happening whether he came or not but as I said all of this is random.

However the thing that strikes me the most is that it seems to me that he isn?t happy to leave your children with his parents, or am I reading more in to that than there is?

Admittedly OH and I don?t have children as yet (yes I am one of the weird MN?ers that doesn?t have kids) but there is no way on heaven or earth that I would leave a rabid rat with my MIL. We are the main babysitters for DS and BIL, his parents are elderly and although they love having the GC?s they can?t see that they can?t cope so Sis& BIL have been known to go for a drink leaving DC?s with GP?s picking them up 45-60 minutes later and dropping them off to us on they?re way to dinner, made GP?s feel useful but not overtiring them.
So could it be worry on his parent?s ability to cope or more/worse??

But I?ll be honest here, if OH was making me feel like ?some kind of live in house keeper who also does sex? as you said I?d stop having sex with him, and I really really don?t mean to be nasty but how can you feel sexually with someone who is making you feel like that?

Have you ever actually said/explained this to him, again don?t mean to be fatuous but after been with OH for 5/6 years (yes I?m stupid! It took me that long) to realise that unless I said if you do (1) it make me feel (a) and if you do (2) it makes me feel (b)
Sorry if this is no help but as I said random wondering

Sorry have X posted here, but am slooow typer

Sorry you're feeling rotten about this.
Can you focus on getting your DS out of your bed? (Supernanny stuff? It's bedtime darling, it's bedtime then just take back to bed saying nothing each time he comes in).
Plus get the DC's to stay in bed in the evenings?
Then at least you'd get time together without having to do anything in particular and might both have a bit more energy/interest for other things?
Could you start salsa classes or something else like that that might bring you together as a couple?
Might take a while to show results but might be a cunning plan to get him more on side without big discussions?

I think I understand what you mean Soggy, like you fear that you are going to get your head turned by the next charming man and maybe end up in some torturous emotional affair or a crush type situation. I can see how that could happen even if you never actually did anything physically. Sorry if my first post sounded like I was moralising - I wasn't. I just know that an affair never really improves things.

I second the idea to go to Relate or something as your husbands behaviour is self-centered and lazy and he can't see that. Or maybe he can and he's just seeing how far he can get away with it.

He needs to see that he's not pulling his weight in the relationship and almost get a sense of what he might lose if he doesn't fix up. I certainly wouldn't be donning my frilly underwear for him.

Good luck - and with going back to work!

kitta have had exactly the same - why bother eating there where you can cook stuff just as nice at home . I can't arrange the childcare as my side are not in a position to BS and his parents do not like me and would not BS on my asking - he has to ask them. I have arranged babysiters adn we have gne out but he tends to sit there looking bored and clockwatching (eg if you want desert them it ill cost us for an extra hour) and then said that he didn't like the babysitter so we couldn't use her again. I am workin gon gettign the kids in bed (he used to do bedtimes but I've taken over so they are gettign better). Th eproblem with salsa etc is the baby sitting. (His parents are not local.)

I tend to imagine that he is romantic (ie pretend that he is someone else) to get in the mood for sex [grins].

I do think that money is a factor but it is wastign money that he hates (ie he spent a fortune on the kids for Christmas) and I think that he sees taking me out for a meal as a waste. Doesn't explain why he will not eve npour me a glass of wine though or make me a cup of tea :(

My DH was like this, could do stuff where he obviously saw the benefit (tidy house, cooked meals etc).

Just try breaking down the possible consequences of his behavior, explain how the house is sold, the kids have to spend part of each week with each parent, the Christmas where one of you doesn;t get to see the kids at all. Explain how it is when you get the invite to friends do but go on your own as with no partner, explain how, when you meet someone new you have to agonise about how/when to introduce the kids.

Then ask him if he can see the benefits of putting that bit of effort in. Wish I'd done it with my Xh

I know this isn't what you asked for help with, but I think the sex with child in bed with you is part of the problem. Not that your DS might wake as I presume you feel he is certain not to wake, but that your DH doesn't seperate out family time (when kids are there) from couple time. He seems to think you and kids come as some sort of package. I could not switch off enough from a sleeping child in the bed to get into sex, how do you manage to enjoy it?

His view that you shouldn't need to work on a relationship if you love each other is so lazy. Such an excuse for doing bugger all to meet your needs. A parent loves their children unconditionally, so nothing the child can do/does not do will reduce the parental love. But you don't love your partner unconditionally - to do so would be madness and a license for them to treat you however badly they liked. You love yourpartner partly because of who they are, but also because of how they treat you, the amount you respect them, agree with their values/choices in life etc. Him treating you this way seems as though he expects you to love him unconditionally. I would tell him that you don't and that his lack of respect and affection for you
are, or will eat away at your love for him.

Counselling could help him to listen as others have suggested.